Need advice for relationship with SPD friend

Jakez wrote:"If you were in his situation, how would you feel if someone told you they liked you?

Confused and maybe angry, depending if I believe it. Nothing good.

Jakez wrote: What are some big things that make you feel trapped in a relationship?".

The other person, them assuming things about you, them being present. Taking you for granted, remembering things you did or did not. Wanting you to do things you don't want to do, and not doing things you want to do, or just asking what you want to do and feel. The idea of a relationship, having to listen to someone's emotional state. I am sure there is many others. But just asking that question makes me think you would not make it. Clearly you view relationships in a non compatible way.

Kabuhi wrote:

Jakez wrote:I'm aware of what SPD is, I knew about it before I met him. What I want to know is: what are your suggestions for being attractive to a person with SPD (aside from things that are universal to any relationship), as well as your opinion on the following:

I've never been attracted to a real human being, so I wouldn't know. My mind literally went blank when I read this part.

EDIT: Attraction, really? We talking about attraction?

I can't be sure that he's really into me, but I do get on and off impressions that he does. It's like some days he's really into me, some days he's not. Regardless, I'll know for sure when I give him the letter. If he says he's not into me that way, I'll take his word for it.

javert wrote:

Jakez wrote:Yeah, I've noticed he tends to hang out only when we have an excuse too.

I can't talk for him, but for me it's not about having an excuse, but about having a role to play. So I like structured activities or occasions where I know what to do with myself. Dating is actually much more stressful for me than being in a relationship (after the initial dating period), because I feel like I have a reasonably good idea of what being a partner entails. I know how to ask a partner how their day was and help out around the house. (That's all there is to relationships, right? ) It's all the interaction that is unfamiliar or doesn't have clear boundaries that freaks me out the most.

Well since we haven't directly stated an attraction to each other/asked the other on a date (clearly), I can't tell what dating's like for him. However we have been "out" together, like going to the movies. I'm not the formal dating type, and since we share similar interests I'm definetly cool just having relaxed informal dates, like grabbing a burger and checking out a comic/collectible shop, crap like that. I really don't have any demands or expectations for how he'd behave in a relationship, I'd just like to figure out how he expresses affection, and I'd be happy with that. I don't expect him to walk around holding hands, constantly say "I love you" or anything he doesn't feel like doing. I'd be happy to just figure him out and spend time with him as the person he naturally is.

OneRinger wrote:

Jakez wrote: What are some big things that make you feel trapped in a relationship?".

The other person, them assuming things about you, them being present. Taking you for granted, remembering things you did or did not. Wanting you to do things you don't want to do, and not doing things you want to do, or just asking what you want to do and feel. The idea of a relationship, having to listen to someone's emotional state. I am sure there is many others. But just asking that question makes me think you would not make it. Clearly you view relationships in a non compatible way.

Wait, how does asking for help understanding him so I can respect his needs make me less compatible? Do you think we'd have a better chance if I just assumed he was exactly like me and that I didn't need to do anything to make him feel more comfortable (/sarcasm)? I'm not sure if you're following me, but if it turns out he doesn't feel comfortable talking about my emotional state I could handle that. I rarely ask people to help me work out emotional issues, I usually work them over in my head until I find a solution. Essentially, I'm not an extrovert, nor am I demanding.

Please let us know how it goes, when you finally do talk to him / give him a letter. I hope it's the start of something wonderful for both of you.

Well here's an update people: We had a really good day today, he was giving me advice about producing music, explaining everything to me, we listened to music leaning close to each other. Exchanging glances and smiles, you know the drill. So I decided since things went so well to ask him via chat later if he wanted to spend hang out Wednesday to celebrate his birthday (the date I wanted to give him the letter). He first took 7 minutes to reply, and then said "not sure actually" saying that he wasn't sure yet if he had to work. I had a bad feeling about that lackluster response, but since he sometimes does that yet does seem open to further negotiation, I asked him if he wanted to as long as he wasn't working. Another 7 minutes passes. He replies back saying he's probably going to be doing it with just his family. I finally just said, "Well, is there a better day for you? I can see if I can fit it in somewhere else", to which he replied he'll see. At this point I came to my senses and realized I was pushing the figurative envelope and just said alright, and proceeded to change the subject to something more pleasant to show I wasn't pissed, which he seemed relieved about, since he immidietly locked on to that and we talked for a while.

This changes things, since it calls into question two things: whether he likes me, and how he'd react to what I was originally planning to say in the letter.

This happened a few hours ago, I've thought a lot about it. My thoughts are this: I'll write two letters, one risky one explaining that I like him as more than a friend, and one safe one just saying that I value our friendship deeply. They'll both share common traits, I want to emphasize that I respect his need for space, and that I never resent it when he asks for it. I want to do my best to let him know that he doesn't need an excuse to satisfy his needs; that he can just tell me "I'd rather work on my art, maybe another time", or whatever. I would honestly not resent that. I value honesty and trust above all things in a friendship.

If he does end up taking me up on my offer, and we have a really positive time together, I'll give him the letter explaining that I like him. If he seems reluctant to spend time together, I'll just deliver the "friendship" letter to him on his birthday.

Still, I'm very uncertain about all of this. Rather than just advice, I think hearing anyone's experiences dating someone with SPD/having SPD and dating a more outgoing type would be helpful too. Like what was your relationship like in the early stages, was it a lot like what's happening in my case, a lot of mixed signals?

Remember that the bigger a deal you make out of it, the bigger a deal it is. Isn't there any way you can deal with the whole thing more naturally? You're 18. It's not like it's the last chance at a relationship that you'll ever get.

anagram wrote:Remember that the bigger a deal you make out of it, the bigger a deal it is. Isn't there any way you can deal with the whole thing more naturally? You're 18. It's not like it's the last chance at a relationship that you'll ever get.

I know. I can accept if there simply isn't chemistry, I accept that there is a fairly large chance that there isn't. I just want to do the best I can, and if it's not enough, I can live with that.

He's the first person I've ever loved, or at least the first person I've felt an attraction this complicated. I've had crushes on girls, and dated one (never kissed though, just danced, hugged, etc), and what I felt then was not the same. I felt a 2 dimensional, physical attraction to them. That isn't to say I treated them like objects, but that the only thing between us were a few token similarities and the fact that we were attracted to each other. It just never went anywhere. I never really felt any drive to work for them. Whereas with him, I feel this deep, trusting, connection. I'm normally an introvert, I don't usually talk about my deeper feelings because of a mistrust I tend to have for people. With him however, I just felt this innate trust from the beginning, and he's demonstrated to be worthy of it. I admire his skills as an artist. We're both programmers. We both have the same favourite video games. We both are intellectuals in the sense we love debating. I find him to be an intriguing, complicated person. I think he's physically attractive. We're both bisexual, and personality wise, very similar (though very different in some ways). We make each other laugh, he makes me happy (and before you accuse me of being needy, he's not the only thing that makes me happy. But I'm happy when I'm around him.), and I like to think I make him happy. I feel safe around him, like I don't have to pretend to be someone I'm not. Most of all, I know that even if he doesn't love me back, I'd still be content to just be friends.

I realize he very likely won't be the only person I meet who I could potentially love, but unfortunately due to who I am, the people I'm interested in are much less common. So yes, I won't repeatedly come crawling back to him if he turns be down, but no, I won't just throw a potential relationship away because I couldn't stick it out until the end.

As for dealing with it naturally, I can't. He clearly has a very different attachment style than me. We're both introverts, but whereas I enjoy spending a good deal of time with people close to me (but I dislike socializing with people I don't know), he seems to only be able to enjoy a little time spread out with people he likes. Therefore what would be "natural" for me is not what would be "natural" for him. I'm willing to step up to the plate and try to adapt to what he needs if things will work out. If they don't, that's fine, but as I said, I don't take this relationship lightly. I don't ruminate on things I can't change, but it'll drive me crazy if I just give up without making an effort.

Jakez wrote:I don't ruminate on things I can't change, but it'll drive me crazy if I just give up without making an effort.

Give him the risky letter anyway. And then plenty of time alone to process it.

You might as well put your cards on the table. From personal experience, I have been most disturbed by people "pretending" to be friends whilst having a deeper agenda. I'd rather people were upfront initially so I could say yes or no honestly. Being asked out and turning them down hasn't changed the friendship substantially. Discovering people are dishonest has resulted in them being removed from my life.

All of the people I have dated have been more outgoing than me [because short of going to schizoidlovematch.com I couldn't find less.] Where they've had a strong group of existing friends and were willing to spend time with them as well as me, it's worked out OK. Or if they're happy to stay home and just do coupley things occasionally. Where they've been more traditional about "we're a couple and should go out to everything together" it's been miserable. Note- I've not had a relationship last longer than a few years, so "OK" is still relative.


I'm not schizoid but another thought based on SPD/Aspie traits. Asking someone to "hang out" is unspecific and potentially terrifying. If he says yes to such vagueness, there's a chance he might find himself at a loud salsa club or a comedy improv class. I'd recommend offering a concrete plan "I'd like to do something to celebrate your birthday. Perhaps we could go to X movie and then have dinner at Y restaurant? Or, if you want to do something different, that's fine too." And negotiate from there.

Jakez wrote:Wait, how does asking for help understanding him so I can respect his needs make me less compatible? Do you think we'd have a better chance if I just assumed he was exactly like me and that I didn't need to do anything to make him feel more comfortable (/sarcasm)?

If he is remotely like me, yes, you would stand a better chance to just do your own thing. It is not a sarcasm, it is the way it is.
Talking about needs is pointless when you don't have any. It is in fact annoying and maybe insulting.
So yeah, you stand a better chance of just saying what you want, and then the other say Yeah or Nay, and then you each go your merry way.
I did not say you should assume anything, on the contrary. Like here you are assuming there is something to understand or that he needs to be feel comfortable. Maybe he is comfortable, and you coming in the picture is what changes that. So there is a paradox that you would be fighting your own presence, which is hopeless. There is no way you can make a schizoid believe that you want him/her more comfortable, otherwise, you would not be there.
So it is best to propose something that you want, and then go from there.

Ada wrote:

Jakez wrote:I don't ruminate on things I can't change, but it'll drive me crazy if I just give up without making an effort.

Give him the risky letter anyway. And then plenty of time alone to process it.

Well one of the things Im unsure about is whether I should play my hand this soon. On one side of things I have been getting some really good signals lately, and he's turning 18, so I think that this would be a good time for him (independence and all). However, I also wonder if the good signals are signs he's started to like me, and is still getting closer. I don't want to play my cards until I'm sure he's definitively interested, since he might not be willing to explore things without sufficient motivation too

Ada wrote:You might as well put your cards on the table. From personal experience, I have been most disturbed by people "pretending" to be friends whilst having a deeper agenda. I'd rather people were upfront initially so I could say yes or no honestly. Being asked out and turning them down hasn't changed the friendship substantially. Discovering people are dishonest has resulted in them being removed from my life.

I don't know how'd I explain this or if I even could, to him, but when we spend time together, I'm not fantasizing about him or anything like that. I'm just relaxed and enjoying spending time with him and whatever we're doing at the time. Sure, I still think he's attractive, but it's not like I'm sitting there pretending to laugh while playing out some fantasy in my head.

That's why I'm so sure of my feelings for him, despite being young and inexperienced. They transcend just a single frame of a relationship, I could just be friends with him and still be happy. I'd be really happy to be closer, but it's not like I'm either dating him or gone. I just care about him as a person very much.

Ada wrote:All of the people I have dated have been more outgoing than me [because short of going to schizoidlovematch.com I couldn't find less.] Where they've had a strong group of existing friends and were willing to spend time with them as well as me, it's worked out OK. Or if they're happy to stay home and just do coupley things occasionally. Where they've been more traditional about "we're a couple and should go out to everything together" it's been miserable. Note- I've not had a relationship last longer than a few years, so "OK" is still relative.

Ok, I think I'm fine in that area. I really don't have any dating demands, I'd be just as happy watching a TV show at home with him as I would going out for dinner. I'm also fine with changing plans, I'm not a rigid planner type.

Ada wrote:I'm not schizoid but another thought based on SPD/Aspie traits. Asking someone to "hang out" is unspecific and potentially terrifying. If he says yes to such vagueness, there's a chance he might find himself at a loud salsa club or a comedy improv class. I'd recommend offering a concrete plan "I'd like to do something to celebrate your birthday. Perhaps we could go to X movie and then have dinner at Y restaurant? Or, if you want to do something different, that's fine too." And negotiate from there.

Interesting point. I'm fairy certain he knows me well enough now to know that we're pretty much the same when it comes to interests, so my idea of a date is probably compatible with his (i.e normal date: Grab some food and a movie, or just walk somewhere nice, special date: Take a bus to the city, grab some food and check out a nice cafe after walking around).

Also, the reason I was a little vague was I didn't want to dump a load of pressure on him to agree. If I had said "Here's what I'm thinking: We go grab some pizza, then take the bus up to the city where we'll walk around checking cool stores out then settling down at a cafe" when asking him out, I'd expect he'd be a little freaked thinking "Omg he planned a whole date out before I even agreed to it". Does this make sense?

Hmm, it was a slow day at work today, so I thought about what you guys have been saying, and what happened when I asked him if he wanted to do something special on his birthday. I think that I've been doing alright in terms of how I present myself to him, but in reality I've been a bit insecure about this whole thing. I've been placing too much of my happiness on how he responds to me, which is unhealthy even in active, secure relationships. I thought about how I felt when rather than pouting when he obviously wasn't interested in my plan, I just let it slide and talked about something else. It felt a lot better than feeling needy, like rather than trying to force him into something, I just let it go. It felt like a lot less of a loss, and more of just a small disappointment that I can get over.

So I think I'm going to go with this. His excuse for not giving me a firm date was not knowing his schedule, which of course could be a genuine excuse, except that if he had wanted to do what I was asking, he would have offered an additional time or at least expressed some interest. So he'll know his schedule today, but I've decided to just let the question lie for a few days, and then I'll ask once more. If he's still vague, I'm just going to let it go, no hard feelings. I don't mean that I'll give up on the relationship, but that I'll really slow things down, spend more time focusing on personal stuff. I might try again in a few weeks, maybe he'll be more receptive then.

This feels a lot better for me, because this whole thing has been getting me really down lately. I've just been letting myself get ahead of things, so it's frequently underwhelming and disappointing. Who knows, maybe he will turn out to be interested, maybe he'll take the initiative tomorrow, but either way, I feel a lot better about this course.

I'm still interested in hearing other peoples stories about what SPD relationships were like at the beginning (from either perspective), just for the sake of being able to get a rough idea if I'm in a similar scenario.