how to gain control? (trigger warning maybe? no idea)

saw this website in the browser history, and thought itd be a good place to ask for advice
my problem is probably an odd one, but im sick of it all
our host, ayumi, is being protected by ayane, to an extreme point. ayane's not letting anyone else take over, not letting anyone else communicate with ayumi. and ayumi just lets it all happen. i got sick of it, and i finally managed to take control, probably not for long
they needs to realise this body doesnt just belong to the two of them, it belongs to me just as much, and i deserve my freedom
hell, for all i care i integrate with either of them, atleast that way i wont be locked up anymore
i dont understand why they are keeping me locked up, i just want to be able to live life, is that really so bad?
anyway, it has turned into abit of a rant, but my question was, is it possible to either force the current host out permanently and let myself be the host (id probably do a better job at it anywya)? or if thats not possible, force an integration?
if its possible, how would i go about doing it?

edit: i forgot to say, i have no idea when i will be able to take over again, so it can be a while before i read responses. i hope not, i will continue trying to get out again.

much love, jade.

Not wanting to be locked up anymore is our main reason for wanting integration too.

It's possible to change hosts, though right now I can't explain how to do it.
It's not possible to force a lasting integration.
It's also possible to share hosting, but control is a big issue in lots of systems. So you would need to trust each other for handling this control in a good way.

jade,
Forcing integration is never a good idea. It may work, but only temporarily and you will end up worse after it falls apart (and that will happen at some point). And it will probably be very hard without cooperation I think. And it will take a LONG time before they will trust you again.

As for getting out, I think you are right that they shouldn't just block you without explanation. Are you able to communicate with any of them (maybe ayane)? If so, can you come to some sort of agreement about the time out? Are there reasons why they don't want it? Just forcing your way out will not help building trust, which is needed before time-sharing is possible. And with understanding will come agreement.
Maybe you can try agreeing on what you would do then. Maybe they are afraid you would do something they don't want. If you promise you won't do just do that, they may agree with you.

You will need to come to cooperation at some point anyway, better start with it now than later.

It is possible to live a good life while sharing the body with several alters, integration is not always needed for that. See here: dissociative-identity/topic71922.html#p583848

Maybe it is possible to become co-conscious, so you are able to do things together? Or maybe just 'look over their shoulder', meaning you can see what happens? That is no real integration, but it may at least help.

Communication is key. Forcing of anything is not going to help anyone. It will make things worse if you try to force your way out, force the current host to go away, or force an integration.

You say you don't know why they are keeping you locked up. Try writing a nice polite note, introducing yourself, asking why they are keeping you locked up (they might not even realise they are doing that) and asking if it would be ok if you could have some time out. You might want to also say what you'd like time to do, so that if they have any issues with it (them having issues with it will probably inadvertently stop you from coming out) you can discuss it with each other until you've all reached a suitable compromise.

It's only working together that will help things. When is the last time you saw a team completely at odds arguing with each other who were productive and happy together? Probably never. The teams that work well to communicate and negotiate with each other are the happiest and most successful. It will help to model your relationships with the other on the workings of a good team in this way...

I agree with Oaktree and Salted, especially on the point that it's never a good idea to force an integration, and forcing such a thing will only make it worse in later on.

Also, the host is the host for a reason: they fit the job best. Just like how a protector is a protector for the same reason: they fit the job best. It is true that host changes can be needed with changing needs and can happen, but usually if it needs to happen it will (because a DID system is all about what is needed for survival/to live).

Right now, it seems that all of you need to work on communication and compromising. Everyone is equal in the system, and you all deserve rights/freedoms (to a reasonable extent). Unless you've abused those freedoms in the past, then you might need to earn them back with earning some trust first. For a system to work, there must be guidelines and compromises on both sides.

For example, there is one in our system named Rebel. She is very impulsive, and usually will do whatever she wants, whenever she wants, without really thinking first (in general, not just about the others or the system guidelines). Because she's abused freedoms in the past, she now has to re-build her trust with the system before she can have full freedom again. So whenever she's out, Kat, a protector alter, is always there in the background, ready to step in if she starts to cross a line (but other than that, Kat lets Rebel do whatever and be the one in control). Once Rebel shows that she's learned from her mistakes and has re-built trust between her and everyone else, she'll get to be "out" by herself again. (Perhaps something similar to this set-up would work better for you? Maybe you could write a note and suggest it to the others as an alternative to being locked up?)

Because of your possible rare/limited time on here, I'd rather quote the parts of the threads I'd be referencing to you instead of giving you the whole thread link itself (so some quotes might not always make the best of sense, but the main point will be clear). These quotes might be helpful to others in your system as well if you'd like to leave them up to be noticed or something.


Quote from Rain about hosts/alters: "Hosts are often alters themselves. It can take some adjustment to get used to the idea, but no more than the adjustment and acceptance needed for DDNOS-1/DID in general.

Just try to remember that you are all pieces of a puzzle. All of you together creates one whole person, and each piece of the puzzle is important and needed. Without all pieces, the puzzle is incomplete. No one is more important than another.

People often make the mistake of thinking that with integration, all alters will "add up" to equal them, the host (who is not always the "core"). This is not true. If the alters created the host when "put together"/integrated, then the alters would not exist in the first place. Every part, alters and "original core" alike, is needed to create a whole person, a single personality. Puzzle pieces do not create a picture of another puzzle piece. They create the whole picture/person that would have been there if DDNOS-1/DID had not developed."


Quote from Cassandra about co-consciousness/co-hosting: "You can be co-conscious without co-hosting.

Co-hosting is like, when more than one person is driving a car. Think of your body as the car. Co-hosting is when two or more alters are at the wheel, driving the car (aka being in control of your body).

Co-consciousness is like, when you have more than one person in a car, but the car may only have one driver. Co-hosting is when you have two or more alters in control. Co-consciousness is like, having passengers in a car. One alter is driving, the other alters are aware of what's going on, but they're not driving, so they're not in control of the body even though they know what the body's doing and stuff."
(Perhaps these are things your system can work on so that even if you're not in control, you can at least still be "out" enough to know what's going on "outside" and such).



***QUOTE FROM KAT THAT ALL SHOULD READ*** It's about control, realizations, sharing the body/mind, and pretty much every issue mentioned in this thread:
"I had to realize that I wasn't the only one in this body, in this mind, and therefore, the body and mind weren't "mine". I had to realize that I had no right to decide everything and control everything, doing whatever I want, when I wanted, because I shared this mind/body. And just like in kindergarten sandbox, you have to share and play nice for sh*t to work. My control didn't give me the right to take freedoms away from others, and it didn't make me "better" or "more deserving" than the others; we are all equals. I had to realize that we ALL have a f*#king purpose, and so we ALL have some importance in the system. We are ALL needed. I had to think of it like a puzzle- you need ALL the pieces, no matter how big or small, to complete the picture and to make the puzzle "work". A DID system with alters is the same f*#king way. I had to step down off my f*#king throne and eat some humble pie to realize this sh*t.

DID systems need to be like America tries to be (and no, I'm not saying America's the best country or anything like that). All parts are equal, all parts deserve equal freedoms (to a reasonable extent, of course), all parts have a purpose in the system, and no part deserves complete control, nor should they have it. Just because Part 1 might be "stronger" than Part 2, or maybe has been through more sh*t, or maybe has a better knowledge of what to do, that doesn't mean that Part 2, their opinions, their thoughts/feelings, their wants, etc., aren't important. That doesn't mean that Part 2 should be ignored, or made to follow Part 1.

What I came to realize is that no part, just like no person, is perfect, and no part can handle everything by themselves, just like no person can handle life by themselves. (Technically, of course, it is possible to stand completely alone and "strong", but it makes life unnecessarily and extremely difficult).

Take me, for example. I can handle the streets. I can handle confrontations. I can handle tough situations. I can handle just about anything- just about. I'm not good at comforting someone, I'm not good at being nice, I'm not good at being sympathetic, I'm not good at staying calm, I'm not good at being patient, sh*t like that. So while I can kick @$$ in a lot of situations, I've come to realize that some situations, I tend to actually suck @$$ at.
My sister, Rain, doesn't like confrontations. I've seen her as "weak" at times, but she's not. Just because someone handles sh*t differently than you do, doesn't make them "weak". I've seen her cause more damage with words than I could ever do with my fists. She takes f*#king forever to anger, but when you do, you better watch out. She kicks @$$ in situations I suck at. She's good at staying calm, she's good at thinking clearly/logically no matter what, she's good at being sympathetic, she's got sh*t tons of patience, she's good at being nice, etc. But she sucks @$$ in the situations where you have to "fight fire with fire" so to speak (those are my types of situations).
So, what would work best is not for one of us to have complete control like I did, but for us to work together. I'll handle the situations that deal with my strengths, and she'll handle the situations that deal with her strengths. We can achieve a lot more that way.

DID systems are a lot like yin and yang. There's good and bad, there's alters that handle this and alters that handle that, and you have to find a balance. It doesn't work if there's all yin, or all yang."


Quote from Rain about our system/being fully cooperative: "We are a cooperative system, or at least, we strive to be so. It shall probably never be "perfect", as nothing ever is, and so it shall always be a "work in progress" to some extent.

Currently, we do work as a team more often than fighting each other, and we have worked out our system of compromising rather well. There are instances where some of us will be unintentionally "locked out" of control by another, and it can cause complications, but we realize it is not of malicious will and we are rarely "locked out" of control intentionally. We also realize that any conflicts that may arise from alters who do not wish to work together, or who intentionally do things such as taking control, are probably caused from the alter being unhappy in some way, and so we tend to address such issues by attempting to figure out what is upsetting the alter. Usually, any conflicts or the desire to be uncooperative comes from reasons such as feeling ignored, feeling like something's unfair (such as how much time they have "out", for example), feeling like they aren't believed in (so, having a desire to "prove" themselves in a situation), etc. Such situations are often resolved easily, and happen less the more we learn about each other and what our actions (can) mean.

We have two "Groups" of alters. The "Main Group" is the group of alters who are closest to the "front" of the mind, or the consciousness, if you will. I am part of this group. We are co-conscious with each other and with our "host", Cassandra; we can co-host with each other and our host; and we have great communication with each other, inside and out.

The "Secondary Group" is the group of alters who are closer to the "back" of the mind, or the subconscious, if you will. They are co-conscious with each other, but are rarely able to be co-conscious with anyone from the Main Group, and haven't been fully co-conscious with our "host", Cassandra, yet. They are only able to consistently co-host with each other; co-hosting with anyone from the Main Group and with Cassandra is rare and uncontrolled. And while we do have communication with them, it is not always the best. However, both Groups do work together as a team, and we all strive for the same goal- being able to function as a whole system together to help everyone live. We all have come to understand that the smoother things run, the more we are able to do what we enjoy and the more freedoms we are able to have. A type of, "let me have what I want so you can have what you want" situation. The more we fight each other, the less progress we make.

(To be technical, there is one within the Secondary Group who does not strive for the same goal, but she also lives partially in her own reality, and does not fully realize our existence, so I do not expect her to yet share our goals).


WeAreOne wrote:
"We are completely aware of each other, and frequently have conversations when we're alone, as well as occasionally switching places to react to certain situations."

This is exactly how our Main Group, including Cassandra (our "host") is. Among themselves, this is how the Secondary Group is as well (though switches are not always as "smooth"). Our hope is that one day, this is how things will be between both Groups as well as Cassandra. (And to have our two "Unknown" alters brought "home" and hopefully join one of these Groups)."



I hope that was somewhat helpful to you/others. Here's some threads I couldn't quote, because they needed more context to make sense, but might be helpful to you/others as well:

Host is sad (discusses increasing awareness and "sharing space" with alters- might help with your being locked up issue): http://www.psychforums.com/dissociative-identity/topic100863.html
How to create boundaries? (short, but deals with creating boundaries with an alter- might help give you/others ideas of how to share the mind/body with boundaries instead of locking alters up/away): http://www.psychforums.com/dissociative-identity/topic98867.html


I hope these quotes and threads are helpful to you, and I hope that they'll also be helpful to others in your system.


The last thing I'd like to say is directed to Ayumi and Ayane. Both of you: No alter should ever be locked away, detained, locked up, or restrained in any way unless it is necessary to ensure the safety of the body and/or other people. Even then, locking an alter up and keeping them from being "out" is only a TEMPORARY solution, and should only be used as a necessary solution for safety reasons. It is not a permanent solution, it is not a healthy solution, it is an unfair solution, and it is an emergency-only solution. This body/mind is not just your's, you are sharing it, and it needs to/should be shared. Jade has as much right to (reasonable) freedoms as both of you do. If they have abused those freedoms in the past, there are other ways to go about resolving such an issue- complete lock-down isn't the answer (even if it was, it shouldn't last forever). I hope all of you are able to reach a peaceful solution to this issue, and I hope that the quotes and threads were helpful to you as well.


~The Hawk

I am unsure how to start, but I feel I should respond here. I am the host of my system, and I posted here a few months ago, after I had an alter integrate with me and I first had some communication with an alter.

I have been co-concious with this alter, Ayane, for a few weeks now, and I am only just getting used to it. In truth, I am still not entirely comfortable with it, and Ayane knows this. I just want to be the person I was before again. Ever since I had an alter reintegrate, I have been feeling more insecure, more scared, while I was quite confident before, I am still hoping it will get better as things balance themself out.

Seeing this thread shocked me quite a bit. Ayane told me she would protect me, that she would keep all others away so I could live my life as I have always done. The realisation that even Ayane does not have total control, and that there are actually others with a fully formed personality is a bit tough for me. Quite honestly, I am afraid. Very much so.

I mean, if this person called Jade can take over my body, others will likely be able to as well. While I have never heard of Jade before, I have been told of several others who would be dangerous if they got in control. One is a complete psychopath, another is a nymphomaniac, and yet another is devoid of any free will. Like a doll, she just does whatever she is told to do, by anyone and anywhere.

I am sorry Jade has been feeling locked up, and I really wish it would not be like this, but I do not think I will be able to handle having someone else in control of my body. I feel quite bad about this, but I do have to think about my own mental health as well.

If you are able to read this Jade, please understand. I do not mean to hurt anyone, neither does Ayane. She just does what she thinks is necessary to protect me. Please do not be mad, I really am sorry it is like it is.

Lin wrote:I am unsure how to start, but I feel I should respond here. I am the host of my system, and I posted here a few months ago, after I had an alter integrate with me and I first had some communication with an alter.

I have been co-concious with this alter, Ayane, for a few weeks now, and I am only just getting used to it. In truth, I am still not entirely comfortable with it, and Ayane knows this. I just want to be the person I was before again. Ever since I had an alter reintegrate, I have been feeling more insecure, more scared, while I was quite confident before, I am still hoping it will get better as things balance themself out.

You will never be the person you were before again until you fully heal, and fully healing includes accepting every part of you, understanding every part of you, and knowing every part of you. You do not have to integrate to do this; increased awareness is not the same as integration. Integration is "becoming one" with another alter (or other alters), it's merging with them to create one part. Increased awareness is where you might share the same "space" with an alter(s), you area aware of their presence and such, but you are not integrated. (I am not saying you have not integrated, I am only saying that you do not have to integrate with Jade, or any other part, to help her/them with this issue).

"You can be co-conscious without co-hosting.

Co-hosting is like, when more than one person is driving a car. Think of your body as the car. Co-hosting is when two or more alters are at the wheel, driving the car (aka being in control of your body).

Co-consciousness is like, when you have more than one person in a car, but the car may only have one driver. Co-hosting is when you have two or more alters in control. Co-consciousness is like, having passengers in a car. One alter is driving, the other alters are aware of what's going on, but they're not driving, so they're not in control of the body even though they know what the body's doing and stuff."

And co-consciousness is not the same as integration. Neither is increased awareness, or "sharing space" with alters. Integration is merging to become one; sharing space/increased awareness is knowing of your alters and having them be "there" with you at times, but you are not merged into one part, you are still separate parts.

Lin wrote:Seeing this thread shocked me quite a bit. Ayane told me she would protect me, that she would keep all others away so I could live my life as I have always done. The realisation that even Ayane does not have total control, and that there are actually others with a fully formed personality is a bit tough for me. Quite honestly, I am afraid. Very much so.

I mean, if this person called Jade can take over my body, others will likely be able to as well. While I have never heard of Jade before, I have been told of several others who would be dangerous if they got in control. One is a complete psychopath, another is a nymphomaniac, and yet another is devoid of any free will. Like a doll, she just does whatever she is told to do, by anyone and anywhere.

This is a process of acceptance, adjustment, and it isn't always easy. All of us have been here before; all of us on this site have been scared, unsure, afraid, uneasy, etc. before; this is a process that must be faced if you are to heal. It might not be easy, but it is possible, and you can do it. Keep in mind, these are not strange body invaders or anything, these parts are parts of YOU, you are a part of them, you are all the same; you are all parts of the SAME PERSON. This is something that often needs adjustment and acceptance, but it is essential to the healing process. And again, we have all been through these processes, and some are still going through them now, of acceptance and adjustment; you are not alone in how you're feeling or what you're experiencing. But these are processes that must be faced; you cannot run from them; Ayane cannot protect you forever from them; and they are essential to healing.

There are ways to handle dangerous alters; it is not impossible to allow parts of your system (reasonable) freedoms, while not allowing other parts who would abuse the freedoms to have said freedoms.
I would highly suggest you read this thread. It contains threads that discuss sexual alters, violent alters, acceptance, discovery processes, basically every issue brought up in this thread and more. Here: http://www.psychforums.com/dissociative-identity/topic100829.html (There's a 2nd page with additions, so be sure to check those out too).

These threads may also be helpful to you (they're not yet included in the thread above):
Blocking a Bad Alter: http://www.psychforums.com/dissociative-identity/topic101666.html
(This thread is references in "Blocking a Bad Alter" and might also be helpful: http://www.psychforums.com/dissociative-identity/topic94943.html ).
I can't switch (discusses switching, how to learn to relax to allow alters to come out, dangerous alters, etc.): http://www.psychforums.com/dissociative-identity/topic101893.html

Lin wrote:I am sorry Jade has been feeling locked up, and I really wish it would not be like this, but I do not think I will be able to handle having someone else in control of my body. I feel quite bad about this, but I do have to think about my own mental health as well.

In order to become healthy, you must learn to accept all parts of yourself, and increased awareness is the only way to do this. You do not have to let Jade control your body by letting her "out"; she can be "forward" without being "out in control", she does not have to be locked away. Please re-read my previous reply, and please also check out the threads I posted in my previous reply, as I believe they will be helpful to you as well as other parts of you. (Especially this thread: Host is sad (discusses increasing awareness and "sharing space" with alters): http://www.psychforums.com/dissociative-identity/topic100863.html ).

This is a process we have all been through before, and many of us are still going through it right now, so you are not alone. It can be scary, it can be tough, but it is possible. Just because you may not be ready right now to let someone else fully out does not mean you cannot work to becoming ready. Not only that, but increased awareness, communication, understanding, and knowledge about/with all parts of yourself can help/increase co-consciousness and co-hosting (so you can always be "up front" to know what's going on, and you can share control with others, so you don't have to be not in control at all when someone else is out). Besides, to deny a part of yourself (reasonable) freedoms is only hurting yourself. This is not only your body/mind, you are sharing it with parts of yourself, and they deserve to live just as much as you do. How would you feel in Jade's position? How would you feel if you were being locked away, you didn't know why you were being locked away, and you were never allowed "out"? It's not easy to be the "host"/main person "out", but it's not all sunshine and daises to be an insider, either. Put yourself in Jade's shoes, and see how you would feel.


Again:
No alter should ever be locked away, detained, locked up, or restrained in any way unless it is necessary to ensure the safety of the body and/or other people. Even then, locking an alter up and keeping them from being "out" is only a TEMPORARY solution, and should only be used as a necessary solution for safety reasons. It is not a permanent solution, it is not a healthy solution, it is an unfair solution, and it is an emergency-only solution. This body/mind is not just your's, you are sharing it, and it needs to/should be shared. Jade has as much right to (reasonable) freedoms as both of you do. If they have abused those freedoms in the past, there are other ways to go about resolving such an issue- complete lock-down isn't the answer (even if it was, it shouldn't last forever).

Lin wrote:If you are able to read this Jade, please understand. I do not mean to hurt anyone, neither does Ayane. She just does what she thinks is necessary to protect me. Please do not be mad, I really am sorry it is like it is.

Ayane cannot protect you forever if you wish to fully heal. You may not feel ready right now, but that is ok, not many of us ever do feel ready. But Jade seems to feel that you are ready; your system seems to feel that you are ready for increasing your awareness, and ones like Jade feel ready to come forward. It is time to work on communication with them, accepting them, and progressing on the road to being healed. You are not alone in your body/mind, you are sharing it with other parts of you, and they deserve to be shared with. You're only hurting yourself by letting Ayane keep everyone locked away.
(Again, please, please re-read my previous response).


~The Hawk

thanks for all your responces
the last couple of days have been a bit hectic as weve been trying to come to some sort of compromise
while im still not completely happy with what weve agreed on, its better than nothing. we agreed that for an hour a day, ayane will let me watch, as long as i dont upset ayumi. i still rather be in control myself instead of just watching, but this was the most i could get for now.
im allowed control temporarily now to write this message, and i hope i will be able to be in control for longer periods of time soon. there are so many things i want to do with my life.

once again, thank you for all your responces. i dont think this would have happened without your posts.

much love,
jade

Jade, Ayane and Ajumi (& maybe others?),
Good to hear that you have come to a compromise! Sharing time with alters is often an issue, but I'm sure you will figure this all out at some point.

I doubt it!

You want to control alters, you want to be the main host and the head of the system.. Wont happen. I don't think it will happen.

The alters need a life in place, they need parents on the outside, they need to think it is a sunny day. They need me inline with God.. They need a beautiful life on the outside. When they see everything is safe on the outside they let go of control.

When my alters see that I am safe, and I am doing what I am suppose to be doing, that I am not causing the system problems, they let go.
It is me that is hanging on to the alters, they are running me.. When things in the outside world are going better, they let go and concentrate on there own play...

The head of the system will always take over to protect the system...

can you write to your alters? and respond back to them.