Compulsive Liar Seeking Needed Help

Hi Claudette,

Good to hear from you and it's good to know that Ted is ok. You know I never thought of it like gambling. Just thinking of it I can't really say because I can see both ways. I think with myself thou, and maybe Ted I think we get the acceptance that we once lacked. We feel a since of belonging to something, and its many other reason. Another reason as I mentioned before is because I don't like confrontation, anytime I felt a sense of an arguement or being put on the spot for something I did. I would lie. One other thing that I notice that I have a problem with is, it's hard for me to tell someone no to things. I think this also goes back to being accepted. I feel if I tell you know, you wouldn't want to be bothered with me. I don't have many friends, I have one person that I can truly call a friend and we've been friends since like 4 or 5 years old. So when I'm around someone I feel like I have to impress them or have them to think he's a cool guy. It's just so many things that it revolves around. I think you should talk to Ted and see where his mind is at this moment. I really hope he opens up. From your post seem as if you've taken a few steps back. Well Claudette thanks for your post, I hope this help a little. Keep in touch!

J.R.

Thanks again for your insight, J.R. Your comments have helped so much. If your personality is reflected in your writing, then I'd say you and Ted sound alike in ways other than the problem with lying. For example, when you said you hated to say "no" to people,I said to myself, "Bingo, Ted too."

For instance, at work I often tell Ted (I am older than he so yes, I do sometimes take the role of mentor) that he shouldn't let this person or that person take advantage of him. They know he's a good guy, very diligent and responsible in his work so in meetings some people "volunteer" him for this and that. Sometimes I know he doesn't mind, but other times he has told me he didn't want to take on the stuff they threw his way. When I have asked him, "Then why don't you just say, 'Sorry, this time I can't'"? he says, "I have trouble with that."

On the one hand, like all of us, I think he feels complimented that others have high regard for the job he does and feeling that way leads to his saying, "Okay, I'll do it." On the other hand, I don't think he wants to let people down. Maybe, like you suggested, he feels they won't like him if he does. I think a lot of us have this particular problem, not just those with compulsive issues, but I imagine that if compulsives have issues with how he perceives others view him, that this people-pleasing by not saying "no" would be a common behavior of many of them.

As for "stepping back", yes. I have. I made a conscious choice not to press the issue this week for two reasons: 1) I wanted to see if Ted made any movement toward approaching me to talk--he didn't and 2). Work is a poor place to deal with personal issues. I want to keep that environment free from this issue, both for him and me as well. If he were to have approached me to talk, I would've suggested we go out to lunch or for coffee or something after work.

That day in the car I took your advice and told him about this forum. Even before my conversation with him, I thought about this--what if he finds this thread and recognizes my comments about him? Then, I thought, "Well, big deal. I haven't said anything that isn't the truth." And so, if he does come on this forum, he will find me here just as I am with him, his friend.

I wish he would. Then he could talk to you.

I don't know what my next move will be or should be. Any suggestions?
Thanks.

Hi Claudette,

Suggestions, I think you should just ask him to go to lunch or perhaps coffee. Then I would spark up just general conversation and then ask him if he's thought about what you said. I would say if you don't want to talk about it, just tell me. Sometimes when were backed into a corner we try and avoid any distractions. I think Ted feel less than Ted since you approach him. I too hope he comes to the forum and discover your blog. I think he would really see how much you care and value your friendship with him.

Bingo huh? I feel that way. I'm comfortable in my job as well, and not saying no to things are just another way of me feeling accepted. A lot of times I do things that I really don't want to do or even hate to do. I hate that I'm that way. My Family (Mom, Brothers and Cousins) take advantage of that. And it's like I know, but I feel I have to be there for them. Recently my younger brother asked me to pay a couple of bills for him. He's single, no Wife and not many responsibilities. At first I told him yes, and after thinking about it (I have a Wife and 2 kids) I told him I couldn't. He starting calling me all types of names. This is my Brother were talking about, someone you never think would be this way. So I'm working on saying no. I still have a long way to go, but therapy is really helping with move things a lot faster.

So tell me what are you going to do? Keep me posted.

J.R.

Hi J.R.

Keep up the good work and keep working on learning to say "no" w/out feeling guilty. Letting people take advantage of us (yes, your brother is trying to take advantage of you--you have a family to provide for, he doesnt) is often a measure of our failure to value our own worth and it's also a way to make others dependent. I am sure you care for your brother, but it surely sounds like he needs to grow up.
Your advice about my next step is greatly appreciated. I will indeed set up a "date" with Ted so that I can broach the subject again. I will keep you posted.

Many thanks, again.

Hey, J.R.


How you doing? I hope well. Hanging in there with the devotion to not lying?

I thought I'd give you a summary of the last week or so's efforts to get Ted to meet with me after work. As you can see from the basic summary below,I guess he has chosen what psychologists would call avoidance as a strategy. At least that is what I would call it--he is avoiding meeting with me because I figure he knows that I will bring up the subject of his lying if we are in an environment where we can talk of personal things.

1. I asked him early last week if he'd like to meet after work at this place lots of us sometimes go when it's hot, for some great iced coffee. He paused, then said, "Sure." A few hours later, he came by and asked, "Raincheck? Something came up." I said, "Tomorrow, then?" He said, "Great."

2. "Tomorrow" came and about two hours before the end of the work day, he sent an email that said, "I just got a phone call that I have to take my sister to the airport. Her ride fell through, and she doesn't have any other way to get there. Is it okay if we meet Friday after work?"

3. I suspected he was putting things off, but I emailed back, said, "Sure, but Friday is set in stone!"
to which he responded, "I promise."

4. The next day, Thursday, I saw him and said, "We're still on for tomorrow, right? You're not going to cancel on me again?" He laughed very cordially, and said, "Course not. I'll meet you there at one."

5. Friday (a short day for us) I made my way to the coffee place, saw him pull up a few minutes after me, and I was relieved. He came in, seemed fine, sat down, we ordered. We exchanged a few pleasantries, then talked briefly about something work-related when he said, "Hold on, my phone." (Supposedly he must have thought I would think it was on "vibrate" as he pulled it out of his trousers.) Then, he "had a conversation" with someone on the other end. The "conversation" was about how he had failed to fill out some papers properly on a loan he was pursuing at the bank.
He hung up, told me the bank said he needed to get the papers straight and with profuse apologies, he said he had to go.

I followed him out and as he got in his car, I said, "Ted, you don't need to go to these extremes to avoid talking to me." I said it very seriously and he responded with a jovial, "Oh, come on, now, you know I can't help this. I gotta go--I'll make it up to you, I promise. Don't joke about stuff like this. I have to get this loan." And he said, "Bye" as he backed out of the stall.

I know it was all a pile of crap.

I guess this is how compulsives lose friends, either quickly or gradually. Ted and I were close as long as I never did as some of the men do (challenge him on his stories) or as long I never brought up his compulsion. I know he would like to keep me as his friend, but he is simply not at the point where he is going to come clean about this with me, and he is avoiding me because he know me well--that I was going to bring this up again. I think he only feels "safe" with me if we are with other people because he knows I would never demean him or put him in a bad light with others around.

I will see him tomorrow. (I was not at regular work site yesterday and today).

Thoughts?

Hi Claudette,

How are you. I see Ted is still not willing. I think it's time your just blunt with him. Your a really good friend Claudette. I'm sorry he doesn't see it for face value. Only thing that I could possibly suggest is ask Ted if he value your friendship. I think from there you should have answers to a lot of questions you may have. So did he get the loan

You know as I look back on all the things you've said. I picture myself once as Ted. I realize you can't make Ted change he has to want to change, and until then your going to continue to have the same excuses. He's not ready, may I ask how old is Ted? He's really luckly that one of you value the friendship. I think you've done enough in the attempt to get Ted to start making better decisions, it's now up to him. He has the tools, now he must apply them. What do you think? I know it's tiring, I vision all the people I've done this to and how it affect them. I think maybe now just leave the ball in his court, let him know you've made multiple attempts and when he's ready to iron things out let you know.

Let me know what you decide.

How are you. [list=] Pretty well, thanks, J.R. I hope you are well. [/list] I see Ted is still not willing. I think it's time your just blunt with him. Your a really good friend Claudette. Thanks. Friendship is a two-way street and I don't want to give up on Ted because in so many other ways, he is a wonderful human being. I have my faults, too, I have to remind myself. I'm sorry he doesn't see it for face value. Only thing that I could possibly suggest is ask Ted if he value your friendship. I think from there you should have answers to a lot of questions you may have. So did he get the loan Believe it or not he said he did get the loan. I suppose it's another lie.

You know as I look back on all the things you've said. I picture myself once as Ted. I realize you can't make Ted change he has to want to change, and until then your going to continue to have the same excuses. He's not ready, may I ask how old is Ted? He's either 32 or 33. He's really luckly that one of you value the friendship. I think you've done enough in the attempt to get Ted to start making better decisions, it's now up to him. He has the tools, now he must apply them. What do you think? [color=#FFFF00][color=#4000FF]Well, some times I want to just go up to him and tell his ass off, if you know what I mean. [/color][/color] Other times, I just want to hug him and tell him, "You don't have to play these different characters you make yourself into." I know it's tiring, I vision all the people I've done this to and how it affect them. I think maybe now just leave the ball in his court, let him know you've made multiple attempts and when he's ready to iron things out let you know. I thought of writing him a letter--that way I could say it all and he couldn't argue with me, interrupt me, get away from me (as with the phone thing). I am still thinking about it. My husband said he thinks I have too much patience with Ted, that men don't have patience with what he calls "b-ll sh_t artists." I finally convinced him that Ted is much more than a bs artist, that his stories and impulsive/compulsive lying go far beyond the occasional fish story and exaggerations that a lot of males indulge in when they are with one another. In my letter I might do what you suggest--tell him I am ready when he is.

Let me know what you decide. I will. Thanks again for the help, J.R.

Here's what I did today, J.R.

I sent him an email in which I reiterated that I was his friend and wished to remain so. I told him that I felt he'd been avoiding me because he was anxious that I'd bring up the topic of his lying. I told him he didn't need to worry about my bringing up the topic ever again UNLESS I felt he said something in my presence that I knew or highly suspected was a lie.

Knowing that last part would be hard, (after all, he has lied in my presence and lied to me) I offered him this provision: 1) that if he was tempted to tell a story and I was there, he should show me a sign that he was feeling tempted and perhaps that would stop him from telling the lie or 2) that if he did tell a lie in my presence, he should give me a sign that he had done so as an admission of that lie

My sister went to a hypnotist years ago to quit smoking and he told her to tug her ear each time she felt the urge for a cigarette.

I told Ted to tug his ear in my presence when he was feeling tempted to tell a lie or failing to do so before telling the lie, to tug his ear after he told the lie as his admission to me.

I have absolutely no idea if he will do this, but I am keeping my fingers crossed. If he could just do this, maybe it would be a start.

I told him that friendship had to be based on trust and he was sorely testing my trust.

Claudette,

I think that was great. You leave everything in his court. Question thou, did your Sister use the hypnosist advice? For me things have been a lit rocky, me and my wife have had several run ins. The thing that gets me thou is the fact that she's always calling me a compulsive liar. I tell her things and she forget I told her, and also since I've have the problem of lying, I'm always saying well maybe I didn't say that or I just choose not to even go back and forth. Before me and my Wife I had the best memory, I could almost tell you a conversation you told me from last week verbatim. Yes I know, backing down. I really don't understand it. I get so frustrated with that, and wonder is it really worth it. I love my Wife, and I admit I've did a lot of wrong things to her. And I don't really speak up that much on things that bother me, rather small or big. Recently I ask her about something that bother me, instantly she raise her voice and here we go. And felt I was looking to start an argument. I think we both are tired, and exhausted. I really don't know how she feels, I'm only telling you my side she could possible feel totally different are see things that I don't. Communication is our biggest down fall, I've never had to really communicate so I find it hard or I forget to say or do something at times. Do you have any idea on how you handle situations like this?
Open for advice.

J.R.

Oh, wow, J.R.--am I happy to hear from you. I kinda thought something might be wrong when you hadn't posted in a while.

I surely do wish you and your wife could make some gains since you say you love her. Love is NOT easy to find, that I know. So, if you do love someone, it's so important to strive to make it work.

Yes, you DO sound exhausted and I have to believe that your wife is too. Sometimes, it's just easier to give up, or say nothing, or...quit, but I hope you don't.

I have no words of wisdom, I am afraid, unless we return to the issue of trust. Recall when I said that it sounded as if you had trouble trusting others and how they felt about you? I've asked myself if some compulsive liars start the habit for the simple reason that they don't trust that others can truly like them or be impressed by them because of their skills/talents/good character traits. I wondered if that was why Ted might have begun his lying. After all, even those of us who aren't compulsive liars have told lies and we can recall being little kids or teens, times when all of us told a "story" or "fib" because we wanted to impress or wanted to fit in, etc. At the heart of those stories/lies was the belief that we couldn't trust that we were deserving of respect or friendship or loyalty as we were so we lied. I guess those of us who never became compulsive liars discovered that the lies were not rewarded enough to continue to tell them or the consequences of the lies outweighed the benefits or perhaps we just grew to understand that we were who we were and that was okay and we felt it was okay because we noticed that some people, people we called friends, actually liked us.

We grew to understand that we could trust that others liked us in spite of our ordinariness, in spite of our weaknesses, deficiencies, and faults.

You mentioned that you don't communicate well to your wife, but you communicate beautifully here on this forum. You seem astute, kind, helpful, and quite bright.

I would ask you to trust yourself and your abilities. Share your feelings with her verbally, at least a bit. All your thoughts and feeling don't all have to come out at the same time (and probably shouldn't), but they do have to come out. Otherwise, what's a marriage or relationship for?

Feelings are not always, of course, shown by words. As any husband knows, we women are much more verbal. Men more often show their feelings while women show and tell them. It's a hard lesson for us women to learn that we have to trust that while men might not verbally express their feelings all that often, they surely do show us their feelings by how they treat us and what they do.
When a women learns to accept that men are biologically different from us, that they rely on their actions to show us how they feel and not words, we women go a long way to building a better relationship with them. Similarly, when a man accepts that women's brains are biologically wired differently from theirs and that we women just have to talk out our feelings at times, the man will go a long way to building a better relationship if he is a good listener, a patient listener.
My advice is to sit down with your wife and ask her to tell you (as I did once) what your strengths are as a person. Tell her it's important to you to know specifically what she values in you either now or when she first fell in love with you. If she does that, then trust she means it.

Then, tell her what you value in her, what made you fall for her.

Sounds as if you both have forgotten what you found most attractive in the other.

I have no idea if what I said about lying being related to a trust issue is correct or if it doesn't apply to you, but if it does, then for your own sake, you need to trust that others like you just as you are.

Maybe too much water has gone under the bridge already with your wife, but I hope not.

If she has exhibited any interest in saving the marriage, then trust she means it; show her the qualities she fell in love with, whatever they were/are. It sounds silly, I know, but the little things are the most important. When I come home from work and see that my husband has tidied up the den a bit by putting books and magazines away, by folding the throw on the couch...things I don't want to do when I am tired, I realize he has done this to please me, and I feel great. When I have cooked a dinner that is very ordinary but is one of his favorites, he always kisses my cheek and says, "I never get tired of your baked zitti, thanks" and I realize he doesn't take me for granted.

I am sorry I don't have any great words of wisdom, except to trust that you are full of wonderful traits, traits that at one time she must have loved.