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pwBPD may not have discarded me yet I freaked out

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pwBPD may not have discarded me yet I freaked out

Postby bluemoon20 » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:19 pm

’d been close with pwBPD for about three years now. We’d been back and forth about dating until recently. I noticed the closer we got, the more he would do the whole push/pull. Three months ago he had a lot of stress in his life and going through some changes in his life so it was hard to even see him, or he started having outbursts than go silent for a week. Each time I pulled him out of it by casually reaching it and he’d act like nothing happened.

Recently he went no contact for several weeks. It was a day after I told him some hesitation I had about going forward with a relationship (communication stuff and him going silent for a week and being back and forth). I told him how hurt I felt. He asked if I still wanted to see him. I told him I was willing to work with it. He agreed and apologized, even said he’d try to come over the next day. He never did. He stopped responding to me. I kept reaching out weekly and nothing. Several weeks later when i finally got in touch. He raged and was talking nonsense about how busy he was, how I disrupted him, how he doesn’t know what I want. I was stunned, hurt and totally shocked. I was thinking here I was worrying something happened to him or confused why he was avoiding me. He never emphasized. He never avoided for weeks like this and he acted as if he never avoided me or was leaving me.

I wonder if it was even a discard because he acted like he would have gotten back to me eventually in how he exaggerated my reach outs even though I felt ghosted “you keep reaching out and calling out of the blue. If I’m busy I’ll get back to you. No need to be all up on me” Was this a discard? He said he would have gotten back to me but what was I supposed to do, wait months and "hold tight." It felt like crazy talk he wasn't getting that I felt like he was ghosting me.

It seemed like a form of emotion dysregulation on his end. The main problem is after he lashed out and had this huge meltdown, yelling, I took it very personally and I couldn’t control my own emotions. I kept defending myself, and apologizing. The more I did that, the more dismissive he got, hence, more I freaked out and blew up myself. It got to the point he asked me what’s the point of closure and how he doesn't feel like having a relationship with anybody. And I felt so confused that I brought out his body issues, and how unstable and unsafe he came across.

I told him how scary his outburst was and how would make any woman feel unsafe. I feel regretful about the body image comment I made. I told him out of anger that he focused too much on body image which I felt made him insecure about everything and how he felt like a blank person to me anyway. I said that before blocking. When I apologized later, he seemed back and forth about me until he cut ties and said he didn’t want to talk anymore due to my message. He stonewalled me, even though the message can from weeks of being ignored, his rage at the end and feeling disoriented by it all. know he was treating me unfairly but my guilt over my own reactions which has heightened my stress and anxiety over this.

Basically I feel a lot of it is my fault for my overreactions. When he went no contact, I kept pushing and when I got in touch, I kept asking to meet right away because I was so anxious and it only made things worse. I never gave him "space" to get back to me or left it alone.

I wonder if there is a chance to work this out in the future and if can this ever blow over? He seemed he couldn’t forget about my harsh comments after my his explosion and made it about him and i'm not sure why he stopped talking for weeks in the first place and only when I pressed, he told me he didn't want to invest in anything...when I thought "I thought we were already seeing each other?" Basically stonewalling or dissocating himself from me.
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Re: pwBPD may not have discarded me yet I freaked out

Postby xdude » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:01 pm

Hey bluemoon20,

If he does have BPD then it's a tough disorder for the partner too. I don't have any answers but maybe some insights to ponder -

Everything can start of idealized for the pwBPD. Why does one person get idealized vs another? No idea, but the problem is this idealization is not based on history together. It's based on an inner projection, and the bigger matter...

When everything starts out idealized, what happens next can only go downhill from there. Eventually you are going to say, or do, something that shatters the ideal. Seems like you two already had your idealization shattering moment, and then it's very hard for people with BPD to forget/forgive that. The idealization has been tainted.

It also appears you experienced the push/pull dynamics. For the person with BPD they are in their 'safe' zone when the relationship starts because they aren't yet emotionally attached, so cannot be hurt. It's later, when they the emotional attachment forms that they tend to run away.

For you, the hard question is where is your head/heart at? Some people do maintain a close emotional relationship with people with BPD, but it is going to be a roller coaster until/if he chooses to seek help (even then, there is no 'fixing' BPD over night). If you want it to work, you probably are going to need to extend more olive branches, and accept while he is very intuitive, he also easily/deeply hurt. You'll probably have to be the 'strong' one.

One thing I did find a bit odd though is he is avoiding you. That sounds a bit more NPD, but for males the lines between BPD and NPD can be a bit more blurry due to social roles, and what they learned as children. Was the avoidance there all along, or after some event, something said/done?
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Re: pwBPD may not have discarded me yet I freaked out

Postby bluemoon20 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:37 am

Hey xdude,

His avoiding me struck me as confusing too because before this, he was almost always receptive, even if really moody, at the end he basically stopped talking, and giving reasons that weren't making sense. It sort of felt like some sort of stress issue along with a push/pull. When I confronted him, he was saying stuff that came off as a pwNPD, "I just don't want to invest in anything if i get a new job in a year" or "I guess I wasn't ready" basically acting like we never had a relationship. I wonder if this was some form of devaluing me or something. Because after this happened, I read a lot of BPD, and almost all the descriptions fit him to a T. As hurt as I was from this, I also worry that maybe I hurt his feelings deeply, because before this, I rejected going out of town with him or a beach, due to things moving too fast, and ever since, that day we had that talk, even though he acted fine, that's when he pulled away and acted like I don't exist.

And I got really anxious, I had no idea what was going on, so I kept reaching out for weeks, leading to all the outbursts, and "what do you want!! you txted a lot and it shut me down" when it was just 2-3 txts. And he kept freaking out leading me to end up losing control myself and lashing out over txt in how unstable he came across. Because I used those words "unstable" "acting insecure and hostile" he got really upset and when I went to apology, he said "after your message, I wrote it off"

Interesting enough, he still offered to meet up for coffee the next day, because he continued to listen and talk to me, even though he was giving dismissive replies, he eventually said, we can pick this up tomorrow, I asked him do you still want to talk to me, he said "I do but i don't" yet agreed for coffee, the next day, he was in one of those moods and said "actually i dont want to see you again, i don't see the point in prolonging this i didnt want to talk to you anymore, you just showed up at my house out of the blue" Again, I got really upset, and anxious, I mean i thought he was ok with seeing me, and i sent another sort of harsh reply and we ended up blocking each other.

I'd been so upset by this, that after this occurred, 2 weeks later I couldn't help but send him a letter of grievances, and harshly telling him how his actions impacted me, throughout the relationship. I think it was a way for me to wear off the shock and process how I was feeling, and reduce the anxiety.

Now I am having a lot of regret and feeling like I overdid it and overpursed that maybe I freaked him out. I keep feeling like if I hadn't kept reaching out, he wouldn't have pushed me away and all of those outburst happened as a result leading him to be like "don't want to see you again" And I realize I couldn't control my own reactions, only making things worse, that we kept getting into a reactive back and forth after he wasn't speaking.

Now its been a month of no contact and I wonder about sending an apology on my part and leaving things open to talk in the future, as a way to mend things, because I wonder if some of what happened was a fluke and just BPD behavior? But i'm also nervous to apologize, in putting myself out there again and feeling like he may not accept. I don't really know here.
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Re: pwBPD may not have discarded me yet I freaked out

Postby xdude » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:59 am

Just my own opinions (not facts, just my gut reactions) ...

I think it's wise that you are questioning your own behavior too, because that's all we can really do, figure out ourselves, and why we are doing what we do. Solving our own puzzle is hard enough. Trying to solve someone else' is impossible.

As for BPD vs NPD, assuming he has one or both, I think they are often just different coping mechanisms rooted in the same thing. Deep implicit self-esteem damage. The way males tend to cope vs females tend to cope with that damages varies somewhat because of social differences in what each sex gets reinforced for, and punished for, but the underlying cause is the same...

Except for simple NPD. Simple NPD means the person just learned they really are entitled, special. They aren't reacting to some deep implicit self-esteem damage, they are reacting to the rest of the world challenging their deeply believed entitlement mindset. Simple NPD can look like compensatory NPD from the outside, but the motives are different.

From what you wrote though, I would guess (this is not a diagnosis, just going with what you have observed) he is the compensatory type, which is much like BPD.

It's a hard to explain thing, but for people with BPD, and compensatory NPD, a part of them may want a close relationship (depends on timing in their lives), but also once that starts to happen, they can feel smothered, or it triggers painful feelings for them (e.g., fear of being hurt again, fear of being abandoned, fear of betrayal, etc.), and so the closer you get, the more it triggers those feelings to run, push away.

I don't know what you want to do going forward either, but please be careful for your sake. I assume some relationships with cluster B types work out, we tend to see posts here from cases that didn't, but it's going to be a hard on you either way.
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Re: pwBPD may not have discarded me yet I freaked out

Postby bluemoon20 » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:11 pm

Thanks for your thoughtful, informative reply, xdude.

Indeed, for a while now, his behaviors and traits have lined up with BPD, and the push/pull seems to be what I was experiencing. It felt like, soon as I told him I had some hesitations, he ran off without explanation. In this time, instead of staying back, as you mentioned, i've been regretful about my own actions. I kept reaching out, to the point, it would be normal for a friend checking in, but for a disordered person, he freaked out, and then said he just wants to be alone. I kept asking things and he would get dismissive, leading for me to get really upset and lash out myself in a message form, from all of the anxiety and emotions. So it was a reactive, back and forth that kept happening, until I had said some things, basically called him unstable and disrespectful and after that, we blocked each other. I know he was very hurt by my words and at first when I apologized he was like "i wrote you off after that message" then hes like "oh maybe we just finish this conversation and talk tomorrow for coffee" When I followed up, I guess he still felt really upset, because he said "don't want to see you anymore" I got upset again and said some more words too and we blocked each other.

Now it's been a month since this happened and since contact with him. I'd been really regretful about my own actions. I almost feel that if I didn't push him or reach out so much, and gave him space, none of this would have happened. I didn't understand the whole push/pull so I kept reacting. I was thinking a lot about sending him an apology for my part and then leave it at that. I felt that maybe an apology would own up to my part but also help thaw the ice with him?

My nervousness is that I feel kind of embarrassed to be caught up in this person who comes across so critically flawed in his emotional capacity and I don't want to feel like I said things to him that were harsh but kind of true and then suddenly apologize, as if it's all my fault. But on the other hand, maybe it will be relieving to get it off my chest and mend things because I feel like I pushed him away and he couldn't control his responses because he was dysregulated. Am I insane for wanting to mend things?
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Re: pwBPD may not have discarded me yet I freaked out

Postby xdude » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:26 pm

I think it depends on what point of view you want, and need to take at the moment.

If he does have BPD or a related disorder, then yea, he really cannot just become emotionally stable on request. People with BPD have very strong emotions, and yes, they aren't well regulated, but it's not a choice for them. On the plus side the BPD types are very sincere in their emotions, but their emotions switch so rapidly it's not really possible to keep up with it.

But please keep any eye on your own emotional sanity. It's much easier to lose it then it is to have it. Many people mean well and try to help someone with BPD, only to find themselves losing self in the process. Again on the plus side, of all the cluster B types, I think the BPD types are the most honest, and truthful in their emotions. They are easily hurt, but that's because they have been deeply hurt.

The hard thing is that as much as others mean well, it often requires a neutral (not emotionally involved) professional to help them, and ... a choice on their part to seek help.
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Re: pwBPD may not have discarded me yet I freaked out

Postby xdude » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:44 pm

p.s. I assume you want honest replies. If you still want to keep trying, then yes, an apology focused only on your part cannot hurt, and may help, but if he does have BPD, it may only help so much. People with BPD tend to start their relationships from an 'idealization' point of view. Sort of like starting on the north pole, the only direction to go is south, and same for them. The idealization can only go south. It may not hurt to try, but once the idealization is damaged, sadly, for some with BPD they can't go back to who they were when all was ideal.
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Re: pwBPD may not have discarded me yet I freaked out

Postby bluemoon20 » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:49 pm

You are right, we can't make them be emotionally stable by request. I didn't realize that before, when I kept reaching out or asking him what's going on or to meet up right away to talk about it. The more I did that the more he pulled away until it led to the explosion. I guess I didn't realize it could lead to any outburst, he became very triggered and confused why I wanted to talk, as if we had nothing. I think paranoia of why someone would care, triggers them too.

You are right the apology may only help so much especially if his idealization is ruined. But they go back and forth and push/pull so much, so it's hard to know when they can't go back or not. I was also thinking if he eventually were to get professional help, then that would make sense to reconnect or have him in my life for any relationship. I can't forsee if that would happen, but maybe the apology would least thaw the ice? But i'm worried of how to even word the apology, if it will seem i'm going from 100 to 0, in being upset and saying harsh things about his actions to suddenly apologetic. I just heard a lot from people, that apologies, people may put it away for a while and still push you away hard but during a hard moment, they may remember how much you were there for them.
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Re: pwBPD may not have discarded me yet I freaked out

Postby xdude » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:01 pm

Again, just going from gut and experiences...

An apology should come from your true self. Trying to word it in a way that is manipulative (i.e., to select words to create an outcome) won't work. People with BPD actually are very intuitive and will see through it, but like all of us, an apology that is a blame game is no fun to read, triggers everyone, and even more so for someone who is already struggling with implicit self-esteem damage. Just write it from the heart and his response is up to him ;)

It's a complicated and emotionally painful disorder, and even some professionals won't work with people who have BPD. I do hope he eventually chooses some professional help though. It's sweet that you care about him and want to help, but again, please take care of you too. You becoming ill won't help him get better.
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Re: pwBPD may not have discarded me yet I freaked out

Postby bluemoon20 » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:48 pm

That's very true, a professional would be a benefit for him and I hope he chooses that route too, but it's very hard for professionals to work with BPD for sure. I was going to just take this time to distance myself and take care of myself because I can see how I lost myself in this and I don't want that to happen again. I need to stay grounded and I'm realizing a lot of things about how much not to lose yourself is important.

I agree with you, an apology would have to come from the heart instead of trying to sound a certain way, because those with BPD are rather intuitive indeed. I think the reason why I wanted to work on it to make sure, I wasn't triggering or be super honest in justifying or explaining myself, because that may make him more upset, or think why is she apologizing if she is making an excuse for it. Basically as you noted, don't want to get into the blame game.

If I may share with you, I was thinking something short and simple without mentioning anything specific or being too heavy:

"Hey i'm very sorry for how things turned out. I understand that the way I reacted must have hurt you and I regret what I did. I do so enjoy spending time with you. You told me that you wanted to be alone and I didn't respect that, I see how this would upset you. I feel sad that we are no longer talking. I'd be happy do hear from you when you are ready"

I was wondering if that sounds okay? I was going for empathizing and just letting him know I feel sad we aren't talking, but am open to hearing from him. Although, I wonder if i'm too nice, and I guess I held back because I didn't want to overdo it or be too much than he can cope with.
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