SCID-D assessment

Yes, I am saying the same thing, and the point was, I was saying it in the first message too. So I never disagreed like I think you thought.

What ever, those are just theories, and there is a clear deficiency with that diagnosing.. It would mean, that with several ANPs there will automatically be memory loss between parts, because in DID you need to have that. But that is not how it goes with real life systems. There are systems with many ANPs and no memory problems, and there can probably be systems with memory issues but just one ANP..

Rebellious systems have not read the books before forming.

I have plenty of experience of unfriendly people working in healthcare or social services. It seems sometimes to be the mood of some whole place, like you described. I have been hospitalized in two different wards, one open one and one closed one in the same hospital. The wards were like night and day, on other ward all the workers were friendly and caring, but in the closed side, even saying something to a nurse made them look at you like you should just leave them be and "do their work", which clearly wasn't helping patients.

Very quick;

Floralie wrote:Yes, I am saying the same thing, and the point was, I was saying it in the first message too. So I never disagreed like I think you thought.

Ah, ok, sorry.

Floralie wrote:What ever, those are just theories, and there is a clear deficiency with that diagnosing.. It would mean, that with several ANPs there will automatically be memory loss between parts, because in DID you need to have that. But that is not how it goes with real life systems. There are systems with many ANPs and no memory problems, and there can probably be systems with memory issues but just one ANP..

I think systems always have memory loss when not aware of the system yet. It's the same 'mechanism' as the memory loss of the cause/trauma's. The parts who carry that stay out of the awareness of anp's. The people who tell you that they don't have amnesia while having DID are aware of their DID. I had amnesia of amnesia, there are very creative ways to deny/avoid.

Floralie wrote:Rebellious systems have not read the books before forming.

Floralie wrote:I have plenty of experience of unfriendly people working in healthcare or social services. It seems sometimes to be the mood of some whole place, like you described. I have been hospitalized in two different wards, one open one and one closed one in the same hospital. The wards were like night and day, on other ward all the workers were friendly and caring, but in the closed side, even saying something to a nurse made them look at you like you should just leave them be and "do their work", which clearly wasn't helping patients.

That's sad and painful. I'm sorry that happened to you.

Bejer wrote:He didn't know. It took me more than a month to tell him (e-mailed him a few days ago) and he responded very nicely yes, and apologized for the referral. I had this 'it takes one to know one' thing going on, I think, when we saw it and asked her if she has it. I can imagine people not seeing it. But he was her supervisor once, it's still a bit strange, since he's an expert.

Insisting on sending the conclusions to your doctor is almost abusive. Hello? Privacy? Did you refuse? You can. We have laws for that, for a very good reason.

-- Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:32 pm --

Have to go now, speak to you later and what great news that you're not going to that place:)

Oh, that he didn't know explains it... Maybe she just never brought it up? I think people (Ts) can go to great lengths to hide information from their supervisors (and themselves). Or maybe she also went to one of these clinics and was told she doesn't have it.

I didn't dare to disagree in the moment. But after you wrote this, I sent them an email about it. Maybe I will call tomorrow, too. I hope I will never see them again, and in that case it doesn't matter what they think about me.

Hope you have a good night!

Floralie wrote:Rebellious systems have not read the books before forming.

Haha!

I'm sorry you went through those experiences, Floralie.

I have to say that right now I don't have the energy to respond to the rest of what you wrote, but I do think they are good and interesting points.

fireheart wrote:
Oh, that he didn't know explains it... Maybe she just never brought it up? I think people (Ts) can go to great lengths to hide information from their supervisors (and themselves). Or maybe she also went to one of these clinics and was told she doesn't have it.

I didn't dare to disagree in the moment. But after you wrote this, I sent them an email about it. Maybe I will call tomorrow, too. I hope I will never see them again, and in that case it doesn't matter what they think about me.

Hope you have a good night!

You too, fireheart, good night and don't let this bring you down! Exactly, it doesn't matter what they think about you, AT ALL. And good for you for standing for your rights.

(If it comes across as inconsistent that we just said that we had to leave and still are chatting away here, that's because we are inconsistent (and that's a joke, we thought we had to do something we already did, sigh);))

(the T with DID said that her supervisors and collegues think it's her strength that she understands her clients better than anybody else; she said that they all knew. But she said that it wasn't DID but a 'severe C-PTSD'). Buuuut she said a lot of things. I don't know what was a lie and what not, and I'm done trying to understand why all that had to happen)

Haha, glad to read another reply though.

Hmm, well, severe C-PTSD... does sound familiar to me. That put aside, I'm very sorry you went through that stuff and it wasn't right and I'm glad vdH apologized to you.

As for my night... I'm hit with the big wall of denial.
Surely I made it all up & have some sort of weird brain tumour that makes me forget things.

I don't want to dismiss what they say because what if it's true? I should at least entertain it.
It just makes me cringe with shame. How did I forget all those things? How can it be that I was so inconsistent for my partner if it's not DID? It makes me feel like it is all my fault, because I must have imagined it.
It reminds me of old times, when I didn't know about the parts. All the conflict. And not knowing why. So, so, so much confusion. Finding things I couldn't remember...

"Not everyone is bad, but I am bad," is back. All the CBT that didn't work at all.

It's going to take a while to digest this, to entertain this.
And then it's a matter of licking your wounds and carrying on.

I made two drawings of the theories. I don't know their official names.

The DID theory: ANPs and EPs.
In my case, 2 ANPs, 8 EPs.

The personality (BPD) theory: schema modes, they have names. E.g. the abandoned child.
I have several of each "schema mode". E.g. two healthy adults (the ANPs), two abandoned children, etc.

I don't feel very bad about the schema theory outcome when I see it drawn out, which is a relief. However, there are things that don't fit. How can it be that the parts have ages? Favourite foods? Hobbies? Their own thoughts and feelings that I can't change no matter what I do...?
How can there be multiple healthy adults? I think a solution may be that I wouldn't count as "the healthy adult" (seems to be code for ANP), even though I am here a lot of the time and usually function well.
Or, alternatively, I would have to be split up between "the healthy adult" and some other schema modes. (That feels icky).

As with usual bouts of worry about this stuff, it's not like the parts are answering me when I try to connect. All I got was: "We have to stay silent. You know that." I haven't switched either, or so it seems. Seems like I'm all alone trying to figure it out.

Hi fireheart,

Maybe you're confusing 'healthy adult' with 'ANP'? They aren't the same, not even close (per definition. Sometimes they are, but it's not a 'done fact' or something). ANP's 'just' don't hold 'the memories', they can have all kinds of unhealthy traits. It's sad for systems who have introjects as ANP's and more healthy parts who never front. It happens.

What do you feel about the differences between you and the other ANP? And did the names surface when your T slowly told you that you're 'dissociative', of before?

Good to see that you're doing ok after yesterday, at least that's how you come across now.

Hi Bejer,

That's a good point. Maybe I did confuse those?
I think I am ANP, but I do remember most of the trauma after having done 8 years of therapy. At first I did not remember.
The other "ANP" is much healthier than I am, but does seem to hold some more intense memories (I don't know if they are actual trauma memories, I don't think so). I remember that they told me that they dissociated trauma, too.

Bejer wrote:What do you feel about the differences between you and the other ANP?

I am jealous of them. I wish I could do the things they do, be so good with people. I wish I could connect with people like they do.
They carry more of a burden than I do, because I feel OK about the body and they don't. They have been carrying a lot of depressive feelings too, the last year.

As for me, maybe - just maybe - they could be envious of my ability to focus and study and plan. But it comes with a lot of anxiety.

The names were already there from before. Not all of them, but some.

Do these things indicate something? If anything, I feel shaken up/confused.

I am trying to be okay.

First of all, I think the experts need to find new terms for 'anp' and 'ep':) It wouldn't surprise me if there will be more terms for more kinds of parts, or just totally different terms, in the future. It doesn't 'cover' everything with those two terms, I think.

(We for example have only one (unhealthy) anp-host with her own system but also three ep-hosts with their own systems, an introject-host and more systems inside. And we suffered from loads of amnesia and avoidance of each other. We truly had seperate lives, which still baffles me. According to how those terms are used when diagnosing, and with just one anp, the dx would then be...? Which makes me kinda angry because I'd totally party if my dx would be osdd because of the prognosis that comes with that)

But having memories after eight years of therapy, at least means a lot got integrated already (and that's great)? You never had parts fronting during those years? If the memories are integrated, so would the parts carrying them? Maybe I don't know enough about how that can work in a system who's not aware yet.

I'm sorry that you feel confused and shaken up, and I totally understand that. What makes this so 'stupid', is that this clinic just isn't.. nice to people and, well, if somekind of narrowminded ocd T (who doesn't mind working there) uses the 'anp' and 'ep' guidelines while diagnosing, almost nobody would 'fit the profile'.

I asked about those names because people sometimes also get overdiagnosed with DID by T's who really want their clients to have DID. It happens. And without noticing, they plant suggestions, because of that, and a system gets 'build' instead of recognized. Very harmful for those clients with probably attachmentissues and stuff.

Yes, I agree. ANP and EP are very limited terms...
I also think that EPs can be host. Having separate lives would be scary to me - it must be distressing to find out! And yes, it doesn't fit the description of OSDD, and if you adhere to the strict ANP/EP theory also not to DID. Just goes to show that the theory is limited.

Yes. I'm starting to think that maybe I should see this as a success. I had a lot of parts front during those years. Lately the switching has been less, more co-consciousness... It felt like the parts "told" me about the trauma and that's how I found out. Sometimes I can also recall periods of amnesia like that now, too. It's like they "tell" me what happened or sometimes at least parts of it.
Maybe I am actually finally integrated enough to NOT be considered as having a dissociative disorder...? Because 8 years ago dissociation WAS my main problem (looking back), and I've come a really long way. Maybe my working theory should be that I had OSDD/DID and the therapy work paid off ?

My T tried really hard not to suggest anything, but of course I don't know if she did anyway... I think that I came to her with a list of parts. I didn't think it was DID or anything like that, I just somehow knew that there were all those parts. Don't remember how I found out, but I do remember clearly that I didn't think it was DID. And then I started to realize that I was losing time very regularly.
I don't know how that even fits into all of this.
But if I want to stick to the theory that the therapy integrated me enough - maybe that's why lately I think I've been losing less time and felt less separation.
During the interview I kept thinking, my answer 2 years ago would've been so different. Maybe you would have believed me then...
But ###$ the clinic. They were really stupid.
If my theory is true, it would be a very positive thing !