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easyfromhere
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Alternative to When You... I feel... Story

Permanent Linkby easyfromhere on Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:04 pm

This is follow on from previous post starring Victor and Victoria, the problem is that Victor is not doing his share of picking up after himself and treating Victoria like a maid.
She's not too thrilled.
Note, this isn't for people who have high levels of abusive behaviours in the relationship, more ongoing low/medium levels of conflict, these cases get help from a professional mental health worker, counsellor etc.

A different approach is with a 'story'. All good stories have a beginning, a middle and end.
Start on a positive note, in the middle slot in the issue, then to give it a happy ending. Ever read a book and the ending was poor? Endings are important. An example:

"Victor, there's not many men who work as hard as you do, you really are a dependable husband and I'm glad to have you in my life.
Lately I've been very busy myself with the kids, not feeling well and having trouble keeping up with picking up clothes and the chasing up dishes around the house, I'm hoping you can help me out a bit.
I know you understand I get tired too, you often don't come in until 7 pm but you always make time to tuck the kids in bed and read to them, I can't imagine a better father than you."

With people in a relationship that includes mild verbal abuse, the standard formula usually DOES NOT WORK, if someone is using emotionally abusive language on you, they WANT you to feel bad.... so telling them you feel 'hurt' is kinda waste of time, they have a problem and want to hurt you.
A story for this type could be:

"Victor, when I met you I was so amazed at how romantic you were, other men just don't come close to how sweet and kind you can be.
Lately I've noticed you using bad language towards me so I'm wondering whats up, its out of character and I don't like it.
Generally you frown on this behavior, its not your style, that's one of the things I respect about you, if you want to talk about it, let me know. "

Start and end acknowledges positive traits, middle the issue.
If they have none you like (ie, forced to share housing with a family member, then pick a characteristic that they value). Keep it short, to the point, and no 'feelings' mentioned. "i don't like it" offers enough information.

If you try this, give it a couple days to 'kick in' and note if there is any change.

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When You.... I feel... Consequence: When it doesn't work!

Permanent Linkby easyfromhere on Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:05 am

I've seen, from basic 'how to' books to well regarded experts, benefit of using the following formula for setting personal boundaries.
In some cases it 'works' as in gets the desired result, but often doesn't or is temporary.
Base formula is:
When YOU do/say/act like......... 'fill gap with negative action/words'
I feel...... fill gap with feelings that result
In future if you continue..... fill gap with 'consequence'
sometimes there is a a 'directive of what the other person should do "i'd like you to do this/that.. more/less etc.

What are the reasons it may not work?
I'll use Victoria and Victor in this example. Victoria is peeved because Victor of late has been a slob, leaving dirty clothes, dishes everywhere, talking to her like she's a maid etc....
She states:
"Victor when you leave your dirty clothes around, don't do the dishes and generally treat me like a maid..."
"I feel devalued and disrespected and sad that you don't care enough about me to take responsibility for your stuff."
"If you continue this I will stop doing any housework at all and not bother cooking dinner. I may leave the relationship at some point if there is no improvement."

Sounds fair enough......How Victor may hear it might be something along the lines of:

As soon as Victoria states the problem, Victor will hear the 'negative' stuff he is doing being pointed out to him. If he's a bit sensitive to criticism, he will go into Defense Mode, having his faults pointed out he feels attacked or shamed, anything Victoria says after will be taken in with Victor having physiological changes (blood pressure, adrenalin etc) and ready to defend himself, retreat or attack.

Now, in this state Victor hears Victoria saying how he makes HER FEEL (bad).

He himself is feeling attacked, hurt and exposed, his faults being pointed out. "oh, so its about YOUR feelings..... what about mine? don't mine matter? you make me feel bad without hesitation but want me to be concerned about your feelings?"

then comes the consequence..... this isn't going to be received well now.... :shock:
"i don't care if the place turns into a pig sty.... you are trying to black mail me into treating you nice, you don't care I'm feeling awful, why should I care how you feel? Don't even know why you are around if i'm such a bad person. Your cooking is crap anyway. "
None of these things may be voiced, Victor may say "oh, sorry, i'll try harder in future' (but he won't).

Next post I will give another option for Victoria to deal with bringing up being treated like a maid that will give a much better chance of improvement in this area and have both of them feeling care for and valued.

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Strategies for living with a pwNPD partner/family member

Permanent Linkby easyfromhere on Thu May 14, 2015 12:50 am

Dealing with a person with NPD or persons with passive aggressive traits.
Firstly, if your mental or physical well being is threatened then seek help from persons or organisations for support. No one is worth that.

Most of us know the abuse cycle, with NPD there is a strong ‘switch’ when the conflicts happen which is why there isn’t the remorse after abuse.
The abuser may start with doing something negative, then lie about it, sidetrack etc when confronted. This frustrates the person at the receiving end until they pop a gasket and say or do negative things in response to the abuse.
Here is where the switch happens, the abuser now has a ‘reason’ for their behaviour. “how can you expect me to do/be x y or z when you carry on, are nasty, get angry etc”.
Fact that the negative behavior they are now getting is the RESULT of their doings and not the CAUSE is either not recognised or ignored.
Now they are the victim in their perception.
I could write a book on this but will cover a few basics.
When you catch your OP (other person) out in a lie, or they have let you down for the 33rd time or they deny a conversation where they clearly said one thing but now ‘can’t remember’ etc.

There is no point in trying to force a ‘sorry’ or an admittance of fault out of them. It is like asking them to hit themselves on the foot with a hammer. They may do it under duress but the pain it causes them will last a long time and the cycle continues. Admitting to something or apologising extremely difficult for some people. Ever see a parent forcing a smallish child to ‘say sorry’ or ‘admit they did something’ in a forceful and mean way? Its a kinda carry on from this, but as an adult, they have many more skills and resources to ‘pay back’.

So what to do. Walk away. Limit confrontations to, say, two minutes, then do something else.
People often say ‘he/she hooked me in again’. Maybe, but unlike a fish, hopefully, most of us, once we see what the bait is, we can choose not to get hooked (well some of the time to start).

Conflicts where you get angry, don’t think for a moment when you go off like a frog in a sock after days of silent treatment or any of the variety of emotional abuse tacts you’ve been at the end of that OP seems to be ‘ok’ with it at the time. So you’ve just told them they are a lowlife insensitive liar. If it ‘seems’ they take this without angst..... don’t for a minute think it is all well. They may say ‘call you tomorrow at lunchtime’. But they won’t.

In these cases you can only be responsible for your behaviour “sorry i yelled at you bob”. Be careful not to make out you are the ‘horrible person who yells’. So add “next time you are baiting me, being disrespectful, sarcastic or ignoring me I will walk away rather than yell’.
This takes responsibility of your behaviour but also clearly shows what they did that triggered you.

So if for your own reason you feel you need to stay in contact to break the cycle, it is only your end you can work at. Don’t let anger take too much hold, don’t get even.
State how you feel clearly and firmly (not in a gentle voice like speaking to a child).
“Bob, you told me you would pick me up at 6pm, it is now 7pm, in future if you are more than 15 minutes late I will go ahead and make other arrangements as I find it disrespectful when you are not punctual”.
Also ask them “have you any reason you are upset with me”. If they say ‘no’, then leave it with a “well if you want to tell me anything, i’m open to it, now I need to change the cat litter”.
And leave it at that. Walk off. Make coffee, check your email. Breathe deeply.

There are many sites you can go to to learn how to set boundaries, build self worth for yourself.

Its not the best case scenario to be in a relationship with a person with a PD..... however people stick to these for decades and have kids too, so minimising the effects is something that worth considering.

Criticism - out right cr...

[ Continued ]

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Sharing bits of your life with a NPD partner or friend

Permanent Linkby easyfromhere on Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:45 pm

Much has been written for partners or friends associates of person who have strong narcisstic behaviours. Generally its "run for the hills", divorce etc.
Which is certainly one option. Sometimes for other reasons its not the option people want to take.
Religious veiws about marriage maybe.
Or even the much quoted 'better to be on your own", which is very nice unless you have actually experienced living on your own with kids in the car or in a share house or wondering really, how to treat kiddies headlice when you have no bathroom facilities. So sometimes its for financial reason (perhaps your are the person who is primary carer for children and find it difficult to get employment and raise the kids, a difficult task without any ouside support and employers dont take kindly to all the days off when kids are sick, holidays, not able to work overtime etc. Plus its just downright exhausting if you don't have high energy levels.
So perhaps you want to maintain a relationship?
I don't know if its possible but I have an idea:

One: Narcissists often get abused as a response to their behaviours.
I find this area is glossed over pretty much completely by every 'victim' of n abuse. The victims seem to not even wish to acknowledge they do mean things to these people in return. But thats another story.

Two:

This is an analogy:

I will use a dog as a narcisstic parnter (just for ease to try and make a point).

Ok, Person A, we will call her Cheryl, had for many years been fraught with angst about her dog.

The dog doesn't behave as she expects it to, it doesn't come when called, refuses to show good behaviours in response to praise or rewards. Sometimes it is affectionate and friendly, other times looks at her with what appears to be hostility or hatred. Its nothing like how her friends describe their loyal companions.
Many times it enjoys the affection it is given, but can at any time become aggressive, biting her hands or simply escaping and running off. Even in the process of being petted it can flip from sweet to nasty with very little warning (there is a little warning but have to be quick to pick up on it or blood will flow, and it would be Cheryl's).

This dog, she explains to friends or expert professionals is causing her confusion. At times she sits down and it doesn't come near her but when she leaves to go out for the day, it trots along behind her and sits in the window looking forlorn.
Taking it to the vet is a waste of time, it performs in perfect manners to the vet, something it also does with visitiors, some visitors will be given attention but many will simply be ignored or growled at.
Also, her dog disappears for days at a time, finding some escape in the yard. Once she found when she decided to try 'tough love' and show that she was not going to put up with this behaviour she discovered it was living with a family a few doors down.
Any firmness on its negative behaviours does nothing but bring a cold stare to her or it simply keeps its distance and then later continues to do just as it pleases.
Thinking maybe it was her.... she spent many hours finding out what faults she had that created this situation. People told her to just 'get rid of it". She read up on dog behaviour, maybe it was just a malfuncioning pooch and no hope at all for it. Experts told her she was wasting her time and only completely removing it from her life would bring her peace. Friends started getting irritated with her, why on earth did she keep the damn thing?
Cheryl wasn't stupid woman, and at some point realised, in fact there was nothing 'wrong' with her at all... so there must be another answer.

Anyway, one day, Cheryl, had a sudden realisation.

Her Dog was indeed.........................
A Cat.

You can not expect a Cat to act like a Dog.


Me, I've always tended to be a cat person.

:D

if you...

[ Continued ]

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Self diagnosis....

Permanent Linkby easyfromhere on Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:32 am

Quite often people spend quite a bit of time finding out what is wrong
with them
or
someone else
Investigation quite often leads to a 'diagnosis', via books, friends or even health professionals.

Lots of people want to find that 'sense of identity'. That is why horoscopes are popular, you are a Leo... so you read the description "ah yes, that's me". Of course if you read the one for Scorpio you would also find it 'fits'. This is because we tend to filter out things that don't support our assumptions and take extra note on the bits that do support it.
Recently I did a test on a health site
Do you feel X often?
Often?
It is like the joke, where the couple are in for counselling.... the counsellor asks if they have sex often? He says "hardly ever". She says "all the time". Further investigation reveals it is once a week. So a persons perception of 'often' is totally irrelevant.

Even going to a professional, it is hard to get a handle on things, one hour. Questions like 'do you feel guilty when you do x". Now some people may feel guilt but not know that discomfort is actually guilt.
So becareful labelling yourself, you are not a jam jar.
There is also the question often asked "can i change" "can the other person change".
This quite goes in conflict with the oft quoted 'be yourself".
With children, we don't say little Johnny is 'changing' but 'he is growing up" or "he is maturing" or 'he is learning life skills".
This could well be carried through to adulthood, when there are behaviours that are causeing pain or difficulty, see it as "learning life skills". Like the adult learning programmes.
A lot of life skills are about balance, you see the workaholic, the person that spends 9 hours on computer gaming etc. Work or computer gaming are fine, if its affecting your other areas of life then you can say 'i'm an addict to work/gaming" or you can say "i want to spend less time on computer/work".
I saw a post on facebook, a dad with a newborn, his comment was "he is a really good baby, has only cried once".
That is NOT a good baby, that is a baby that 'doesn't cry much" (interestingly some babies take a little while to find their voice.... and when they do, are they then a 'bad' baby). Already a two day old baby is being judged as 'good' by some adult standard, nothing to do with how babies work the world with their limited resources.
So thats it with labels. Lazy, try swapping for 'lack motivation to do X" and consider what would motivate you.
To finish up, if there are things in your life that are not in balance, consider 'doing less' of the negative ones and 'doing more' of the positive ones.
Even positive things become negative if they are overdone.
If your house is so ordered to the point a lolly wrapper on the floor causes angst, then consider 'i won't clean for one day a week' and if you are the other end of the spectrum and you can't actually remember what type of floor covering is under the mess consider "once a week I will clean one room to high standard".

Anyway, thats it for the day.

:)

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