Manipulation of the Mind 101

This post is to help NON's understand how easily it happens. There's nothing special about what you do or what she does, it's a dance of interpritation and a game between players. This is how she reads you, what she looks for and how she will use your mind against you. No- I've not translated your words, movements, postures, dispositions and expression into what they mean to her in this post (that wouldn't be right- teaching people HOW to do this) but I'm telling you what she looks AT and what she looks FOR in a first date situation.
I hope this helps...


Step into a world of fantasy where you are indulged and entranced by someone who truly understands you, can offer you all that you’ve been secretly lacking in your life, and take you to whole new level of excitement and adventure...

Is this another planet- no. It’s a mind fukc and a thrill to those on both the giving end and receiving end of the manipulative technique.

How is this accomplished?
It’s hard to pin down the entire working of mind manipulation by just one thing, or in a written text of any sort because so many things play a big part in the reading of people (men in particular) but I’ll try to explain how I do it myself to give an understanding of how it happens in general.

First off, I’d like to introduce you to my own manipulative mantra, Madonna’s hit song, Erotica:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ0JXPSoNf4
"Erotica"

Erotica, romance
My name is Dita
I'll be your mistress tonight
I'd like to put you in a trance

If I take you from behind
Push myself into your mind
When you least expect it
Will you try and reject it
If I'm in charge and I treat you like a child
Will you let yourself go wild
Let my mouth go where it wants to

Give it up, do as I say
Give it up and let me have my way
I'll give you love, I'll hit you like a truck
I'll give you love, I'll teach you how to ...

I'd like to put you in a trance, all over
Erotic, erotic, put your hands all over my body
Erotic, erotic

Once you put your hand in the flame
You can never be the same
There's a certain satisfaction
In a little bit of pain
I can see you understand
I can tell that you're the same
If you're afraid, well rise above
I only hurt the ones I love

Give it up, do as I say
Give it up and let me have my way
I'll give you love, I'll hit you like a truck
I'll give you love, I'll teach you how to ...

I'd like to put you in a trance, all over
Erotic, erotic, put your hands all over my body
Erotic, erotic

Erotica, romance
I'd like to put you in a trance
Erotica, romance
Put your hands all over my body

I don't think you know what pain is
I don't think you've gone that way
I could bring you so much pleasure
I'll come to you when you say
I know you want me
I'm not gonna hurt you
I'm not gonna hurt you, just close your eyes

Erotic, erotic [repeat several times]
Put your hands all over my body
All over me, all over me

Erotica, (give it up, give it up) romance
I'd like to put you in a trance
Erotica, (give it up, give it up) romance
I like to do a different kind of
Erotica, (give it up, give it up) romance
I'd like to put you in a trance
Erotica, romance
Put your hands all over my body

Only the one that hurts you can make you feel better
Only the one that inflicts pain can take it away

Eroti - ca


You certainly don’t have to read or listen to the entire song, but it does set the stage for the perfect penetration of the mind, and the sleekly seductive weaving of one mind’s force into another.
As one mind (the dominant) enters another, the seduced mind (the submissive) is taken into the world of the controlling mind’s forces. The dominant mind paints the ideal picture for the submissive mind, and powerful bond begins to form....

This is not only a BDSM practice, and you don’t need to have ‘dominant or submissive’ qualities or tendencies to be a party of mind manipulation, but the BDSM community does paint the power exchange and seduction of mind fukc- ever so brilliantly, and it makes it easier to see how one powerful mind (the dominant) can entrance and captivate the openly receptive (or manipulated) mind (the submissive) so perfectly and completely.

The difference between BDSM and HPD mind fukc- is that in a BDSM setting, open communication of intent and boundaries is both expressed and adhered to. This makes the dominant’s ‘job’ quite easy in reading her sub, and knowing the exact method of seduction and where those limits lie. However with HPD mind fukc, it is a much more subtle seduction and a deeper reading on the part of the dominant mind. There isn’t necessarily that open communication about fantasies, limits and what would make the submissive taken into her world- is there?
So, how does she know?

She observes you. She sees more about you than anyone should ever pay attention to and monitors every one of reactions (or lack thereof) to see what stimulates your lust, your content, your anger, your insecurities, your passion, your pity, your rage, your favour, your aggression, your delight, your desires, your sexuality, your pride, your motivation, your abandonment, your every strength and lacking (even those you don’t realize you have) in order to use those ‘tools’ to her benefit.

It happens very quickly, and innocently enough; but through a slight bit of conversation and the exchanging a few smiles she can tell within minutes what she has to do to gain your affection and get into your head.

Little things like body posture, personal demeanour, verbal expression, the way you dress/stand/sit/fold your hands/ cross your legs/the consistency in which you touch the table/your face/your hands/your watch/ your cell- all of these little tiny things say VOLUMES about you, and your inner workings of the mind. You’ve only said a few words, only smiled once or twice- but that is enough, you’ve been read and now could be in for the ride of your life!

Let’s look at the song for second, because this is what she’s checking for:
“If I take you from behind push myself into your mind when you least expect it, will you try and reject it?”
Can she peek inside you and by doing so, bring you into her world- or will you reject her, and push her advances away? She’s looking into what kind of person you are, are you going to resist or are you an easy target? Granted, easy targets are just that, but some manipulators want the hard game and will go for that instead- no one is safe from manipulation, there’s someone one for everyone and that includes manipulators.

So, she’s gauged your resistance in a matter of minutes and if she cares to continue and you’re giving her the reaction she wants (whether compliance or resistance) the game is on...


Verbal probing into conversation (seemingly harmless though it is) she’ll begin to find out all about you. Where you’re from, single/married, why you’re single/married, about your job, social activities, friends, interests, children, volunteer work, education- anything! All of these things say something about you as a person, your values, your goals, your strengths, your weaknesses, and what you prize and pride most in life. That’s where she will begin to focus, building a common bond between the 2 of you. Something you share and can find similarities in, and she will use that to get closer to you and gain your trust.

Areas of the song which show this part manipulation:
You’re thinking- “I can see you understand I can tell that you're the same”
She’s thinking- “I could bring you so much pleasure... I know you want me”



Once the common bond has been found and established between the 2 of you, she will begin to probe into the weaknesses and figure out what you’re lacking.
You can only get so far in a mind fukc by giving someone something they know they enjoy- the trick to a good deep penetration of the mind is to find something they may not even realize they’re into or need, and present it to them as something only she can give them. That is what she does...

She finds out what she can give you to make your world a better place, but only with her in it. This too can happen easily over conversation and in a seemingly innocent way. Words, body language, even punctuation and grammar in written text says so much about someone and the choice of words, in fluctuation and the way you present your physical stance before her- all of these things lend to her credit and figuring you out. Seeing what you need that you may not see you need, and presenting you with your desires in a way that takes you aback and makes you astonished that anyone knows you so well...

Words of the song:
“If I'm in charge and I treat you like a child will you let yourself go wild let my mouth go where it wants to”

Figuring out what the man in you needs to make you as happy and care free as a school boy. Feeding into that boyish need for self satisfaction and comfort, that nurturing and understanding, the common identity and something extra that only she has been able to provide you with- will you become lost in her? Will you go wild? If she pleases you, can she have what she wants from you???

This is what she’s checking on next. What she gets from you when she gives you what you want and need.

She will be gauging your degree of expression and gratitude for her excellent treatment of you. If you give the reaction or material things (as I used to want) that she longs for, she will continue to feed into that childish ego, and give you everything your heart desires because she can! You’ve been read, gauged, tested, and entranced over a few drinks, and it’s all fun and games until someone breaks her heart.


This is a small synopsis of what a first date is like, the preliminary testing and gauging of YOU, to see if you are able to suit her needs. Play this same scenario out over a period of weeks, months and years... You just get deeper and deeper into the game.

We’ve not yet reached sex and I don’t think we need to take it there to be honest. The mindset of manipulation and mind fukc doesn’t require sex in order for it to be affective. In fact it works BETTER without sex because that’s one more dangling prize in front of the mule. One more piece of feminine leverage she can bare before you to get whatever she wants.

Words of the song:
“Once you put your hand in the flame you can never be the same. There's a certain satisfaction in a little bit of pain... Give it up, do as I say. Give it up and let me have my way, I'll give you love, I'll hit you like a truck- I only hurt the ones I love”


“I know you want me. I'm not gonna hurt you (I'm not gonna hurt you) just close your eyes...”

It’s blind siding to see how simply this happens, but like I said she is having a totally normal ‘getting to know you’ conversation so it’s almost impossible to see it coming. It’s not what she says or what you say that is important or distinctive, it’s what she takes in and stores away from the conversation that is what will destroy you in the end.

I didn’t write this as a how to, or how to avoid kind of thing, it’s just the mentality and the method behind the madness that everyone seems to want to understand.

It happens so fast and so innocently that you don’t see it coming until you’re hooked and more than likely hurt. My best advice to those trying to avoid being a victim of mind fukc would be if it seems too good to be true- it more than likely is.

A diamond holds value due to its clarity, and yet, it is still usually flawed in some small way.
A perfect cubic zirconia, flawless and shinning though it may be, is a dime a dozen...
Perfection- isn’t always indicative of something’s value- is it?

That exactly how she pulled me in. I remember the first day we started talking. We spent the entire day just talking and I was amazed at how much we had in common. It's like I found a girl with the same interest and values I had. At the beginning of our relationship, she was very interested in my thoughts and she wanted to please me. She wasn't pushy or demanded a lot. I felt that I can slowly let my guard down with this girl. I really did think our conversation were innocent. She even told me stuff no one else knew and I did the same.

If it seems too good to be true- it more than likely is.

That says all.....and one of my fav sayings, after being lied to so much! lol

The other: "actions speak louder than words".

Those saying, say alot! lol

Were your conscious you were doing this to people?

Or did you really see yourself as interested in the things they were interested in? Or as, wanting to be the things, you thought they wanted you to be?


Like, i remember.........just having this disconnect in my mind.

Like i couldn't tell myself, or allow myself to see..........what i was doing.

I knew i was doing it, on some level...........but it was just too rewarding and fun, and it was far more rewarding and fun, thinking it was all as real as they did.

And i guess the crazy thing..........was i thought people didn't care enough about me, because they weren't trying to be everything i wanted.

This is really well done, Alice. Really well done.

Kudos to you Alice, you captured the essence and also provided valuable tactical information for anyone going out with an active HPD or NPD. After all, who wants to go into the jungle unarmed? But you left out one thing: if deftly counter-manipulated, many an enraged HPD or NPD woman will abruptly wax into her little girl mode and try to make you, the guy who out-foxed her, into the big bad wolf. Many HPD's and NPD's have a keen sense of the moral structures and codes (based in feminism, etc.) within the dominant culture and how to deploy them into their own propaganda and self-denial agendas.

Alice, I touched on all this once but got demonized (temporarily, anyway) by you and Sanstars for advocating counter-manipulation...remember?

Anyhow, it's 2011 in the dating western world, fair is fair for acts within the law, and adults take their chances with each other.

There is nothin' fair in this world
There is nothin' safe in this world
And there's nothin' sure in this world
And there's nothin' pure in this world
Look for something left in this world
Start again

-Billy Idol

Mine never cared enough about me to really do this, she just talked about sex all the time so that I couldn't tell how vacuuous she is(only talks about sex, fan club, and herself)and made sure that we were in constant contact so that I was addicted to her. She does this with everyone. When she finds someone she deems long term relationship material(I didn't make the "cut"), she does adopt their lifestyle though.

If she hadn't made me feel very sorry for her early on I would not have been attached to her. I just think, what if this girl was a Senator's spoiled daughter...my behavioral expectations would be a LOT higher.

Thanks Guys

I admit I wrote this under the fog of a head cold, so it may not make 'perfect sense' and I may have missed a few key points here and there, but for the most part this is what she does and how she exicutes her placement into your world.

CptSaveAho wrote:Mine never cared enough about me to really do this, she just talked about sex all the time so that I couldn't tell how vacuuous she is(only talks about sex, fan club, and herself)and made sure that we were in constant contact so that I was addicted to her. She does this with everyone. When she finds someone she deems long term relationship material(I didn't make the "cut"),

Yeah, Captin- if you didn't get close enough to her to be 'the one' it would have been mostly sex and banter to keep you interested and on the edge of your seat at all times. The men in our fanclubs are different from those we hold as our love object. Because we attract hoards of people, I myself had 1000's at one time, we only select the most useful and most idealizingly adoring of us to hold closer... if ever you stop being useful or adoring- we drop you and replace you without issue. It's relatively painless though, unless you anger us in some way... The 'fans' don't see the evil in us, they don't suffer our rage, suspicions and destruction- they are disposable to us (because there are so many) and I'm sure (as a former fan yourself) that hurts them in some way- right?

I'm only just realizing what I've done to my X's and a few of the materially used men in my past, but I never thought about the 'fans' and how they feel after we ditch them. I know several of my guys still hold me in high regard and are emotionally available to me still. I don't use them because I don't allow myself to use them for my attention seeking, emotional unloading, problem solving or anything material either. I've cut myself off from them to keep them safe from my manipulation; but now that I've dropped them so completely, I can't help but wonder what's going through their mind and if they now hate me for my using them.

I told them outright that I have HPD/BPD and that I won't allow myself to hurt them and that's why I'll no longer talk to them one on one anymore. I do make a monthly pit stop to blog and let them know I'm doing well, still alive, and whatnot- but I will not open or read a single email they send because I don't want to hurt them, or use them anymore.

Do you think they understand though?

orion8591 wrote:Kudos to you Alice, you captured the essence and also provided valuable tactical information for anyone going out with an active HPD or NPD. After all, who wants to go into the jungle unarmed? But you left out one thing: if deftly counter-manipulated, many an enraged HPD or NPD woman will abruptly wax into her little girl mode and try to make you, the guy who out-foxed her, into the big bad wolf. Many HPD's and NPD's have a keen sense of the moral structures and codes (based in feminism, etc.) within the dominant culture and how to deploy them into their own propaganda and self-denial agendas.

Alice, I touched on all this once but got demonized (temporarily, anyway) by you and Sanstars for advocating counter-manipulation...remember?

I do actually remember jumping on you for something a while back, but as to what that was- I honestly don't remember Sorry, sometimes I get like that- I don't necessarily mean it in the long term though (impulse reactions, heartfelt at the time, often wane over time...) it's probably the BPD in me

You're right though, we do do that little girl thing A LOT! And it's not only when you're in 'trouble' we also do it to gain your fatherly instinct to protect us and nuture us. We become childlike and innocent, in order to 'play with you' and provoke those emotions and drives, to stimmulate the unconditional love and acceptance a father figure would provide (because we never had it) and to make sure you become compassionate and receptive to our needs/desires. I'm sure if the other guys here thought about it, they too would easily recognize that coy little girl look, the innocent giggle and childlike excitement she expresses from time to time. We appeal to our love object as more than just a woman and more than just sex, we present them with an adoration and understanding of a mother figure, we reach them on level of friendship and compassion, we become the child they secretly wish to nurture (subconcsiously in your mind- for the most part) we become your sexual fantasy live and in living color- think about your X, and look at the many roles she filled, the faces she wore and the needs she met in your life...

It's more than good and bad, love and hate, there's so much more that goes deeper into BOTH psyches, she is a representation of many your own infantile and adult needs all rolled into one- isn't she? She appeals to you on so many levels- things you don't even realize unless you look much deeper into her and yourself. She places her needs on YOU in all these rolls as well. She wants you to be the father, the friend, the lover, the child, the provider, the saviour, the 'one' who will meet all her infantile and adult needs (though infantile needs, with adult sexuality is a btter description I think). And as such- you guys become 'perfect' for each other!

You're BOTH acting out a fantasy here. Yes, SHE has drawn you in; but you are acting in the play out of your own free will. She's provoked the emotional ties in you that stimmulate all your instinctive drives towards her. This is how she poisons you, this is yet another level of the game. A deeper level that reaches your subconcsious and makes you drawn to her in a way you've never been drawn to anyone else in your life.

Why?
Because she represents EVERYTHING you've ever hoped and dreamed for all rolled into one beautiful thing that you can hold and love for the rest of your life. That doesn't happen though, and we know that- so what happens, the bad in her is seen and craziness plays it's role in the relationships destruction. And YET- you still feel addicted to her, you still feel drawn to help her, shelter her, save her, and be there for her- why????

Paternal instinct and parental drives have been set in place towards her through those childlike manouvers and you are attached to her, as a father feels attached to a child (in some degree, because your attachment will eventually faid off over time and anger) but still, you keep giving her chances because like any good father you believe in your little girl- don't you?

Twistedmister wrote:Were your conscious you were doing this to people? Or did you really see yourself as interested in the things they were interested in? Or as, wanting to be the things, you thought they wanted you to be?
Like, i remember.........just having this disconnect in my mind. Like i couldn't tell myself, or allow myself to see..........what i was doing.

I knew i was doing it, on some level...........but it was just too rewarding and fun, and it was far more rewarding and fun, thinking it was all as real as they did.

And i guess the crazy thing..........was i thought people didn't care enough about me, because they weren't trying to be everything i wanted.

You're response is confussing, but it's justly confussing because you're absolutely right- it happens both consciously and uncounsciously. Which is a confussing thing in itself- isn't it?

One a conscious level, we know we are interested in the 'object' and we know that if we play the game right they will become interested in us and we can have what we want from them. Right?

We seek to find -> we find what we like -> and we go after it- correct?

So in 'seek to find', and 'find what we like' mode, this all done within the perameters of our conscious awareness for the most part. It's when we go after it that the lines get blurred...

We don't necessarily 'realize' we're doing the many thing we do to read people and gain their affection/interest (I know I used to consciously do it as stripper [working guys in the club because that was my job] but I didn't notice I did it in relationships until I began introspecting and evaluating myself more honestly and thoughroughly and I was shocked to see I did it everywhere in my life- not just the clubs) but we do. We do it subcouncsiously to them and take that information subconcsiously into ourselves to convince ourselves we are exactly what they want and need in life, and we become what they desire.

This isn't done vindictively, and with the intent to harm- on the contrary, we want to make you happy, we want to have your love, we want to give you our love, and we want that happy ending. Everything here is done with the very best intentions, we don't seek to harm you in the begginning! We're not even 'pretending' to be something we're not on a concsious level- we convince ourselves that we are what you want and need and become that thing on a certain level (not deep, but more than supperficial- medium rare, lets say) and because we manipulate OURSELVES into being this, it also manipulates YOU to believing it! It's an outright LIE- but we lie to you and ourselves as well- really messed up sh*t I know, but it's true... We place ourselves into the state of being 'persona' while we are with you, and when you're gone we're back to ourselves (if we know who 'we' are) and this is done so quickly, accurately and completely that neither you nore we even know it's happened. Totally subconcsious and a natural thing for us to do this in our lives and we don't blink twice at the whole thing.

So the reading and becoming aspect of 'go after it' mode- is mainly subconcsious...
You can consciously see that it's working, you can concsiously know when it's not; but that inner adaptation and conformity is only happenning deep within you, and unless you LOOK for it- you don't know it's happening at all. Nore does the NON.

So yeah, it's BOTH Twisted. Look at your own situations and see where you've done this- it's pretty fu*kin freaky if you ask me

I suppose the only reason I can see this so clearly is because of my years in the club where I had to do this to make a living and it became my craft. But if I look outside of the clubs, into relationships that started even before I began stripping- I was doing this very thing time and time again before I turned it into my profession.


WOW!

Thank you for helping me see all of this, my shrink was asking me about my manipulation in our last session and I found it very difficult to describe off the cuff like that. But looking into it deeper and with your help, it makes me see this from many angles and aspects- thank you

~Alice

So Alice can you explain how some HP could go from being sweet in the honeymoon to acting like a spoil brat who get upset over little things. At the beginning, my ex was pretty cool and laid back. Then around September she started getting mad over little things and started to pressure me into rushing things (like getting our own place together). She would also break up with me then come running back. She did that all the way til valentine day where I started to become expendable and now I'm a forgotten toy. She would also use jealousy tactics to make me bend to her will when she never did that we first started talking. Whenever I try to give advice or tell her my concerns she gets mad.

LightZero wrote:So Alice can you explain how some HP could go from being sweet in the honeymoon to acting like a spoil brat who get upset over little things. At the beginning, my ex was pretty cool and laid back. Then around September she started getting mad over little things and started to pressure me into rushing things (like getting our own place together). She would also break up with me then come running back. She did that all the way til valentine day where I started to become expendable and now I'm a forgotten toy. She would also use jealousy tactics to make me bend to her will when she never did that we first started talking. Whenever I try to give advice or tell her my concerns she gets mad.

For sure I can tell you why, but let's see if you can figure it out. I bolded all the important clues in your own comment and made 2 very well chosen words of your own bright red even to point it out more clearly. You know the answer...

What is acting like?
What is she being in her behaviour?
What did Orion point out to us all on this thread?

A very KEY point, that even Scarlett made a post on the other day...

Here's another little clue:

There was a little girl,
Who had a little curl,
Right in the middle of her forehead.
When she was good,
She was very good indeed,
But when she was bad she was horrid.

Henry Wadsworth Longfellow 1807–1882




So, why did she do that?
Why did she act that way?
Do you see it