switching while retaining sense of self?

I started to notice I 'switch' pretty frequently, but one thing that keeps me from believing it's dissociative switching (and not just different ego states) is that it's still me. I feel different, behave different but I still have the same name and age (but may feel younger), and when thinking back on it it still feels like me, but not entirely me at the same time.

When I'm in such a different state, I often don't want to go back. Don't want to become my true self again. The one that doesn't like my parents. And I'm sometimes 'stuck' in such a state. But I know I shouldn't keep being that way and am sometimes told (from the inside) to go back or to listen to certain music. When I'm stuck, I usually use certain music to go back, it's a safe trigger.

Those states have different roles and different ways of thinking (mainly about my parents) and (slightly) different (social) abilities:

• My true self (the state I'm currently in) doesn't like my parents and wants to live on it's own (feels weird to write this in third person, but right at the same time ). This is the state I started to be in much time when I discovered how my parents really are.
• One deals with my parents, likes them somewhat but is still scared when they start to argue but usually just hides the feeling. This is the state I'm mostly in now with Christmas and probably will be with New Year's Eve. This is the state I was probably in most of my time before, say, one or two years ago when I still tried to like my parents. One alter gets really depressed when I'm long in that state with my parents. Or maybe it's just when I'm with my parents.
• One I discovered yesterday (but I know I have been in that state before) comes up when I feel mentally an physically tired. I still felt tired but not that much. When I decided to come out of it I felt much more tired.
• One is extremely excited about everything technology related. I can't think very clearly in that state and talk far too quick (which isn't like my true self). This one is also very supportive of my parents.
• One that might also be such a state is when I get very social (relative to my true self), which is also not really like me but feels very good. I hope to be able to acquire those skills in my true self, via integration or another means one day, because this is really something I lack.

(there are probably more that I haven't identified yet). I don't usually talk about them in third person, but just as me in a different state.

Can someone relate? Any thoughts about whether this is DDNOS/DID (dissociative) switching or not?

I think I understand what you are saying and I think I experience something similar. I have "alters" who are completely separate from me (Different names, birthdays, appearances, behaviors, likes, dislikes and so on) and they normally appear to me as auditory or visual hallucinations and sometimes control my body. I consider this my primary group of "alters" (I put alters in quote marks because until I receive an official diagnosis I don't want to state that is what they truly are)

Then I have a secondary group where it's all me and it's my consciousness but they are different versions of me. Sometimes though I will forget what is done in a certain state and it takes a while for me to remember but I don't see it as an "alter" coming out because I know it was me. They can be quite extreme. Like different gender identities. I'm transgendered, female to male, but theres a part of me that likes to hold on to that female part and when that particular state comes out I sometimes feel regret for changing to male but I know this isn't my true feelings because when I'm back to normal I'm so happy for being male. There's an autopilot mode as well which I spent about 3 years in. I suppose most people have this, even those without DID. I just switch to autopilot and watch my body get on with it's day. There's a very OCD part that has to follow a very strict set of routines and gets incredibly distressed if a routine is broken. Some of the things are ridiculous though. Like if I do a 360 in a clockwise direction I then have to do a 360 anti clockwise otherwise I have spun too many times in one way. Absolutely ridiculous but that part has to do it. When I'm in my normal state I don't have these feelings though.

My doctors thought at first it was BPD but I spoke to loads of people with BPD and they said they couldn't relate to my experiences because I have audio and visual hallucinations of my "alters", my "alters" used to command me to do certain things like hurt people and I became paranoid my family would get killed (which is why I have been diagnosed as having psychosis for the last 8 years) and the fact my "alters" can take over my body and I have no recollection (although this is rare). Plus I don't feel I can relate at all to BPD.

I don't really know what these states are, if they can be considered alters or perhaps just smaller, less formed alters, or simply just an ego state that is slightly exaggerated. I'm sorry I can't tell you what is going on. Best of luck finding out though.

You already help by writing your experience with it. So yes it was useful.

Frank_Darko wrote:Then I have a secondary group where it's all me and it's my consciousness but they are different versions of me.

Exactly! Different versions of me.

Frank_Darko wrote:There's an autopilot mode as well which I spent about 3 years in. I suppose most people have this, even those without DID. I just switch to autopilot and watch my body get on with it's day.

Excess verbiage that can be ignored: (to quote Tylas)
I sometimes just stop caring what I'm doing but just keep doing it, while still feeling in control but not like it's me doing it. But at the same time it still feels like me. Weird. I suppose this is like an autopilot but it never happens with things I have to think about, so I can't stay in it for too long. It has slight DR with it so maybe it's dissociation related. I don't know. I'll stop rambling.

Frank_Darko wrote:Like if I do a 360 in a clockwise direction I then have to do a 360 anti clockwise otherwise I have spun too many times in one way.

More excess verbiage:
Soo much! I used to have things like that a lot when I was younger. It became quite extreme at some point. Not exactly with the turning stuff but I felt like I always had to move the opposite direction when moving one direction, but then again that direction and back... like < > > < > < < > > < < > < > > <. < and > are the two directions. Do you see the pattern? It starts with < > then mirrored with > < so it becomes < > > < and keeping mirroring the whole thing. I kept doing it until I lost count. No idea why that was useful . I also counted stripes on the road... I still do it sometimes until I discover I'm doing useless stuff again.

I also thought these were like slightly dissociated ego states, not dissociated enough to form a separate sense of self.
Related thread: Changing name and age, still the same?

oaktree wrote: I also thought these were like slightly dissociated ego states, not dissociated enough to form a separate sense of self.

Yes I view these states as being almost unformed alters that take care of certain situations or feelings that I can't make sense of but that aren't completely unbearable or threatening. The situations that I really can't handle or emotions/feelings I can't access are handled by the fully formed alters. So my secondary group takes care of smaller things whilst my primary group handles the really big things.

Ok. So, I've got questions about this and decided to write more about this as things have become more clear lately.

So, I think I'm really switching with parts somewhere between ego states and alters. I have done this my whole life, that's why it doesn't feel strange. It is like I morph into the new... parts?

I have listed them for my therapist. I'm not going to list them now here, it was a long list (about nine and more not written down). Maybe later. Or when someone is interested. He liked I wrote it all down, because it helped going further (he literally said he liked me being proactive or something like that).

I had told previously (the 2nd appointment) I suspected DID (which he then said probably wasn't the case). And I told him last time the 'intrusive/strange thoughts' had become more like 'voices' lately (this was very difficult to tell, I can't tell anything DID related, I have to write it down!). He said something like, maybe the voices are coming from the other parts (that I had written down). That they might be alters (he seems reluctant to use the word). Well, feels weird, as it seems to be still me. Most of the time. Sometimes, I notice I'm actually not that much in control and telling what the one out should do. Or I'm just discussing what to do. This happens quite frequently. The moments I 'freeze', sometimes I'm only able to do one thing. Or I do it without any conscious effort and there is always a short delay. So I'm thinking I'm actually switching far more than I thought previously.

Now I'm trying to figuring out what are parts and what are just slightly dissociated ego states without any 'real' sense of self. Maybe the voice/sense of self is just hidden? Maybe all are 'real' parts? I'll just have to figure this out and probably will post again here when I know more (for those interested).

I haven't been much here due to an addiction that's getting much stronger now and that has kept me from being here much. It's nothing dangerous (it's on the computer). I know why it's there: because I keep struggling with this dissociation. Maybe I'll post about it. I'll keep at least reading PMs.
Edit: oh and I welcome any questions - they are a chance for me to think about it.

I don't know much about this stuff, so I'm sorry if I give you bad advice.

Outside of what I wrote on the Highway hypnosis thread, I experience something similar. Probably the most violently different state I experience is a child. But I don't know what it is either.

I would suggest not to force voices if you don't hear any. Voices are pretty distinctive. It could be that the voices just don't talk to you, maybe because they aren't supposed to. But not hearing voices doesn't mean you don't have a dissociative spectrum disorder either. I think that here I have read that alters sometimes communicate through images and sensations. Especially in DD-NOS, communication between parts may be more difficult.

What is your memory like between these different states?

Also, does it matter whether it is dissociative switching or different ego states? As far as I understand, those two things (if we are talking about dissociative switching in DD-NOS) are pretty similar, so it would be a difficult distinction to make anyhow...

I have listed them for my therapist. I'm not going to list them now here, it was a long list (about nine and more not written down). Maybe later. Or when someone is interested. He liked I wrote it all down, because it helped going further (he literally said he liked me being proactive or something like that).

My T asked me just yesterday to do this. I did it a month or two ago...breezed right through it, wrote a ton about each part I knew about it, but I cant find it now. I'm just drawing a blank now I don't know where to start. Thought I'd start with myself, but still just get a blank.

Now I'm trying to figuring out what are parts and what are just slightly dissociated ego states without any 'real' sense of self. Maybe the voice/sense of self is just hidden? Maybe all are 'real' parts? I'll just have to figure this out and probably will post again here when I know more (for those interested).

I think since you hear voices, and the voices have names, IMO that says alters to me. Wouldn't the fact that they have names/voices/thoughts be the 'sense of self'? "Level of consciousness" keeps repeating over and over in my head...not sure if it's an intrusive thought, but if it is, I'm guessing that might be part of what distinguishes the difference between ego state and alter. Along with michiru's question about memory between the states. For me, half the time I'll draw a blank, the other half I'll only remember bits and pieces, most of which are in the 3rd person, or I'll get a simple flashback like picture.

I see in your siggy that your 19. I'm 27 now and can't remember sh*t. We seem to have a lot of similar experiences, except you've said your not aware of any time loss. When I was a teen, I had great memory over all. I did get time loss, but I only became aware of it when friends would bring things up on things I've said/done or been. So, without them, I would have never been aware of any time loss at all. My memory started going down hill when I was 20...the older I got, the more stress, the more time loss, the less memory.

And time loss for me is a really hard thing to catch bc it's instant, and I don't really keep track of time. Right before DID awareness, I noticed it most after showers, and during work when I was still working (periods where time is kept). So, it's very possible that your just not aware of time loss yet, and your lucky you caught this now and still have so much memory. Maybe catching it early will help prevent losing so much memory as you get older.

michiru7422 wrote:What is your memory like between these different states?

The same. But I do view things differently. I.e. in one state, I can get along with my parents well and in another state I almost hate them (and am at the very least very annoyed with how they are). I don't lose time that I'm aware (I always say 'that I'm aware' because otherwise I would get comments from inside - so maybe I'm losing time? Well, I'll know that one time).

Switching between the sides is sometimes difficult, that's why I was thinking they were dissociated. And there is this thing that I don't want to switch to the 'other me' and when I've switched I'm happy I have... like the two sides want to be in control. But it's still me (or?).
I think ego states can be partially dissociated. So that would be the most logical explanation.

ManyShadesOfMe wrote:I think since you hear voices, and the voices have names, IMO that says alters to me.

Yes, the voices probably are.
My therapist was the one who thought the voices came from the other states - that wasn't me. And I'm not sure whether that's true, because I keep being the same between the switches. It wasn't really someone different before the switch.
Or the switches have to be really smooth and organised in a way 'we' aren't aware 'we' aren't one.

ManyShadesOfMe wrote:My T asked me just yesterday to do this. I did it a month or two ago...breezed right through it, wrote a ton about each part I knew about it, but I cant find it now. I'm just drawing a blank now I don't know where to start. Thought I'd start with myself, but still just get a blank.

Maybe you're not yet 'allowed'?

About time loss. There is one thing with which I reliably 'lose time'. That's when I'm douching. I cannot do it shorter than, say, 15 minutes. I go in some sort of trance state, deep in thought, and I'm just not aware of what's going on (there isn't much considering the place). When I try to resist it, it's just too much. I can't resist going in that state. I think it's like spacing out.

Apart from that... it is rare that I *don't* have highway hypnosis (usually, I'm only really aware a few times during the drive). And of course the day seems to fly by, but I guess that's no time loss because it is the same speed every time. I don't really have friends (just a few people I know a bit more close) so I can't really detect lost time that way.

ManyShadesOfMe wrote:We seem to have a lot of similar experiences, except you've said your not aware of any time loss.

I was thinking the same. Another thing: people haven't said I used a different name at a time.

I am sorry for my previous post. It was very abrupt and not very helpful. Certain parts of me have a lot of trouble with dissociation and this board in particular, including me, especially posting on it, and they wrote that post. I am temporarily suspending our collective disbelief to write this. So I am going to write to you what other parts were telling me to write last time but that I didn't write then (they were NOT happy with what ended up being written) and what I have learned since then.

First off, the way I've understood it is that ego states are less defined than dissociative states that arise in DD-NOS or in DID. I would suggest you read parts of this GoogleBook: Dissociation and the Dissociative Disorders: DSM-V and Beyond, specifically page 417, chapter 25, and the criteria he outlines for Complex Dissociative Disorder on pages 397 and 398. http://books.google.com/books?id=e-6WHeIf-dgC&pg=PA381&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false The entire book is not available there, but I think it outlines a lot that is useful - specifically the difference between ego states and dissociative states and some signs of dissociation. Una previously wrote about this book on this board, and I got it from a post from her.

To summarise Paul Dell's theory, as you move along the spectrum of dissociation (which he names as normal, non-dissociative mental illness, DD-NOS, DID), the ego states become more and more defined. I still don't think that it matters too much where you are on this spectrum, as I think treatment would be the same. The difference between normal and dissociated states (I am not sure about ego states), though, seems to be the continuity of the parts. I think that if you can define them consistently (e.g., likes, dislikes, etc.)and identify some triggers for them, this is dissociated.

Second, given that you have a T, you may investigate the Multidimensional Inventory of Dissociation (MID), which is a self-report inventory of dissociative symptoms created by Paul Dell. It defines where you are on his spectrum of dissociation as well as PTSD symptoms. In some circles, it seems as if it is used as a substitute for the SCID-D because it is more user-friendly but also because it is better than the DES (if you know what that is). The SCID-D is an interview (basically a bunch of questions) that is the gold standard for assessing dissociation, but it also takes a lot of training to use. The MID is also in the public domain, I am told, and it seems that little training is required to use it or interpret it. I think you could use it yourself if you wanted, but I think that bringing it up with your therapist is a better idea. I found it difficult to answer because parts of me were arguing a lot during it, some of which did not experience the symptoms at all.

Third, you gave me a link on my thread, which I am supposed to send back to you. http://www.psychforums.com/dissociative-identity/topic98598-50.html#p1021211 I am also to tell you that the voices may not need to speak to you, and that may be why you are not hearing them right now. Mine only talk to me when there is something important to be known in order to facilitate the working of the system.

Fourth, my question about memory was bad last time. It's often hard to know if your memory is not intact, especially at this end of the spectrum where it is more subtle. Here are some more appropriate questions, I think. Have you ever felt surprised when it is inappropriate? E.g., I am surprised to see that my apartment is clean because I last remember it being messy, even though I also remember cleaning it after that. Or has someone ever asked you a question that you answer one way at one time and later you remember that however you answered it was patently untrue, even though at the time you thought it was the truth? Or you ask someone to call you by a nickname and then they do and you are surprised when they do? Or like, why did I buy this??? I am not actually sure how much of this is different from normal people, but these are things I experience that seem influenced by others.

Last, if you are interested, I can write more about my experience, but I don't want this post to go on too much longer, and if you're not interested, I don't want to take up space on your post. I hope that you find this post more helpful.

I wasn't offended or anything like that. It's all right . DID or not, all people have their bad moments .

Thank you for the book link! For me, the 'ego states' keep getting more defined. More on that later.

I once suggested the SCID-D to my therapist, but I don't think that's the way he wants to go. Personally, I think it won't help much. I know I'm dissociative. I really cannot explain it another way. And my therapist also thinks I'm dissociative. I have taken the DES a few times, but it comes out around 17, which isn't very high (higher than average, but still 'normal').

For me, the voices only seem to be there when they are needed or when they want something from me. They're less there than before (when they seemed to be there large parts of the day). Maybe they're hiding for a while now. But other dissociative symptoms increase now.

Well, I don't lose any time it seems. That also includes any 'secondary symptoms' (like the classic example of finding things I didn't remember buying). But I know I'm different at different times - mostly depending on the place.

And now what I wanted to write...

WTH???? I wasn't in control most of last day (it's ~3am here now, very late). 'I' did my things as usual, but I just couldn't control any part of my body for the most time. Of course, if I had asked, I could most likely take over (like now). What the one out at that time (as there is apparently someone else out) did was greatly influenced by me, though.

I never thought it would happen, but apparently the dissociation is much stronger than I expected. I mean, whoever was out then, it certainly wasn't me. And it certainly wasn't just an ego state. I'll try to talk with it one time. It didn't really cause DP/DR.

This make me wonder... how often am I actually in control? It feels like not much. How could I always have lived my life not knowing I wasn't really in control? It just seems impossible. So, now my theory is that I'm usually 'away' when others take over, but when I think back when they took over it seems like I was in control - after all, that's how it always has been. And how could I ever have imagined I wasn't the one in control at other times?