For NON-BPDs: Information and Resources

Welcome to the borderline personality disorder forum. Whether you know for sure that someone in your life has BPD, or you simply suspect that they do, you have made an important first step. You have noticed that something isn’t right in your interactions with a specific person or people and you’ve started to ask questions. This is an important step in your recovery--whether you choose to leave or to stay in the relationship.

That said...

Be very careful about diagnosing yourself or others. In fact, don't do it. Top researchers guide patients through several days of testing before they make a diagnosis. Don't make your own diagnosis on the basis of a WWW site or a book!
– bpdcentral.com

Borderline personality disorder is often confused with other conditions. It sometimes becomes a "scapegoat diagnosis." Not all abusers have personality disorders. Conversely, not everyone with a personality disorder is a “bad person” or an abuser. It is best to treat each case individually and to avoid making blanket statements or assumptions.

Jump to Links and Resources:
borderline-personality/topic47446.html#p338151


GENERAL INFORMATION ABOUT THIS FORUM

This area of psychforums.com is primarily for people who suffer from borderline personality disorder. If you do not have BPD, please post in the Non-Borderline Support Thread. If you have questions for BPDs, you may post them in the Questions From Nons To BPDs Thread. You may also use the Relationship Forum and the Venting Forum to discuss your issues. If you wish to be part of a support forum that is geared specifically toward Non-BPDs, you will find a suggestion in the Links and Resources section.

Jump to Links and Resources:
borderline-personality/topic47446.html#p338151

If you are a recovered, self-aware Non and you wish to lend advice and guidance to people struggling with BPD, you may respond to threads in the general forum. However, since many posts by Nons have been and still are potentially triggering to persons with BPD, please exercise kindness and caution while writing your posts.

NOTE: Posts from Nons in the general BPD forum that include, but are not limited to:
- attacks
- discussions of “how horrible a certain BPD was”
- dismissions of BPD as an actual disorder
- other triggering material

WILL be dealt with at the discretion of a psychforums.com moderator or administrator.

Thank you for helping us make this forum a safer place for both Nons and BPDs.

“I THINK THAT SOMEONE IN MY LIFE HAS BPD...NOW WHAT?”

You’ve already taken your first step. You have realized that something isn’t right with your relationship or friendship.

One definition of a healthy relationship:
http://www.healthyplace.com/relationshi ... u-id-1618/

The second step is to realize that diagnosing someone is not going to provide a solution to all the issues involved. While, in certain cases, it helps to know how a personality disorder works, it helps only in forming a more specific plan for leaving (or staying).

For some Nons, this specific forum may not provide sufficient support. Survivors of abuse of ANY kind may benefit from counseling, a real-life support network and an online support forum that is geared towards their needs.

Don’t give up hope! There are resources out there that are geared specifically to Non-Borderlines.


Jump to Links and Resources:
borderline-personality/topic47446.html#p338151


“SO DOES THE PERSON IN QUESTION HAVE BPD OR NOT!?”

Without a professional, it is very difficult to tell whether your loved one, friend or co-worker has BPD. Their behavior might not be due to a personality disorder at all.

Here are the current DSM-IV criteria for BPD:
http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/P ... px?rid=17#
Proposed revisions (expected in 2012):
http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/P ... px?rid=17#

BPD is often confused with other personality disorders. It is classified by the DSM-IV under “Cluster B” personality disorders. “Cluster B” personality disorders (dramatic, emotional or erratic disorders) are often difficult to distinguish from one another.

Cluster B personality disorders

* Antisocial personality disorder (DSM-IV code 301.7): a pervasive disregard for the law and the rights of others.
* Borderline personality disorder (DSM-IV code 301.83): extreme "black and white" thinking, instability in relationships, self-image, identity and behavior.
* Histrionic personality disorder (DSM-IV code 301.50): pervasive attention-seeking behavior including inappropriate sexual seductiveness and shallow or exaggerated emotions.
* Narcissistic personality disorder (DSM-IV code 301.81): a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and a lack of empathy.

The only way to know for sure whether or not someone has a specific disorder is to get them diagnosed by a trained professional. A second opinion may often be beneficial.
Again, a diagnosis by itself will not resolve any issues, neither for a Non nor for a BPD. At best, a diagnosis will provide a road map for recovery. It is up to both the Non and the BPD to actively work on their own recovery plans.

If you wish to acquire a copy of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV-TR Fourth Edition), you may purchase one on Amazon.com.
http://www.amazon.com/Diagnostic-Statis ... 0890420254

Here is a simplistic overview of Cluster B personality disorders, which your loved one MAY OR MAY NOT have (take this, and all other advice with a grain of salt):
http://personalitydisorders.suite101.co ... _disorders


Jump to Links and Resources:
borderline-personality/topic47446.html#p338151

LINKS AND RESOURCES FOR NONS

The following are links to sites that are geared towards "Nons", i.e., people who do not themselves have borderline personality disorder. Nons who are recovering from abuse, as well as Nons who wish to help BPDs, may find these resources useful. Sites with support forums are marked in red.

If you wish to add a link, you may reply to this post or send a PM to a moderator or administrator.

PSYCHFORUMS.COM LINKS

venting-forum/
If you wish to get something off your chest, this is a good place to do so.

anti-psych/
If you wish to dispute the general validity of a borderline personality disorder diagnosis, the Anti-Psych forum is an appropriate place.

relationship/
A place to discuss general relationship issues.

domestic-abuse/
Includes physical, emotional, elder and cult abuse.

post-traumatic-stress/
Includes Acute Stress Disorder, Rape Trauma and Combat Stress Disorder

borderline-personality/topic47447.html
Post questions for persons with borderline personality disorder.


EXTERNAL LINKS:

http://www.healthyplace.com/relationshi ... u-id-1618/
A description of a healthy relationship.

http://www.selfgrowth.com/topics_websites.html
“Toxic Relationships: Love Them, But Leave Them” by Maria Mar.


http://www.bpdfamily.com/discussions/message_board.htm
This is a well-organized support forum that is geared toward various levels of recovery.

http://www.bpdcentral.com/index.php
This is the home page of bpdcentral.com. Here, you will find detailed information on borderline personality disorder, self-help books, finding a therapist, hiring an attorney, and other helpful resources. The resource list is on the left-hand side of the page, on blue background.

You may also want to browse these specific sections:

http://www.bpdcentral.com/resources/basics/main.shtml
What is BPD?

http://www.bpdcentral.com/resources/basics/myths.shtml
BPD myths and realities.

http://www.menwhoareabused.com/

Support for men who have been abused ! ( emotionally, physcially, financially, or otherwise ) and the discussion of personality disorders.

Statistically, a high percentage of persons diagnosed with BPD are women. It is fair for me to provide a link to a men-only support forum where men can talk with other male survivors.

http://www.divorcesupport.com/
Many people who come here are often considering a divorce, in the middle of one, or recovering from one. This site may help. It provides resources by US state and has an extensive support forum.


http://www.mental-health-matters.com/index.php
The home page of Mental Health Matters. Articles, community, networking...everything from healthy living to mental illness.


http://www.mental-health-matters.com/in ... temid=2062

Can a Loved One of someone with Borderline Personality Disorder - a Non Borderline - create a bond with someone with borderline personality?

In short, yes--IF the person afflicted with BPD seeks, finds and accepts therapy and actively engages in it, and IF the Non also seeks therapy to ensure that s/he is not enabling the dysfunctional relationships.

http://www.bpd411.org/
This site appears biased against persons with borderline personality disorder. However, it still has good features, such as a Yahoo! group (e-mail-invite-only), and an informal way of “diagnosing yourself as a Non-BPD”.

The reason I’m including this site in this list of resources is that there ARE extremely malicious persons with BPD--and if you as a Non need a good reason to get away from one, this might be the shove you need.

***DO NOT, however, assume that all sufferers of BPD will do the things listed on this site.

http://www.safe4all.org/resource-list/
This is a comprehensive resource list for victims of abuse. People will be able to find local resources here, whether young, elderly, male, female, gay/lesbian/bi/transs/transg, healthy, disabled, etc.

This list includes many countries and organizes local resources by state or province. NOTE: “Nationwide” resources are listed alphabetically. For example, if you’re looking for “nationwide” resources in the US, you will find them listed between Montana and Nebraska.

ADDITIONAL NOTE: This site is frequently very busy. Right now, at 2:12 PM EDT, on a Monday, this site is accessible.

They also have a support forum, but due to overwhelming site traffic, the support forum offers only limited activity.

SHARING YOUR RESOURCES

If you recommend a resource, please provide the following:

- the link, if possible
- a brief description
- a "classification" such as "mix of Nons/BPDs", "Strictly Nons", "Anti-BPD", etc.

I personally am not in favor of Anti-BPD sites, since they can actually harm a Non's healing process by keeping a Non in the anger stage. Still, Nons who are not yet ready to move on might benefit from a temporary outlet.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed links; thank you in advance to those who will share their resources.

Good luck to everyone in your recovery; and to your loved ones in their recoveries.

--Frayed

I have recently distanced myself from a previous friend who I suspect has BP. During our friendship she told me that when she gets into a romantic relationship she changes and usually loses all her friends. I thought this was strange but never really took the comment all that seriously. True to her word as soon as she got involved with one of our mutual friends she almost transformed. Unfortunately not for the better. She has always been slightly provoking and attention seeking but I would say this behaviour of hers has become ten times worse. She also became super possessive over her GF and started to see me as her hostile enemy or something that she needed to protect her GF from. She constantly ridiculed me in front of her and I got the feeling that she was somehow trying to control and dominate me to prove she was stronger than me. It was almost like I had to be made to feel bad in order for her to feel good. She would manipulate situations so that it would seem that I disliked her GF (which is not true, she has been my friend also) and then she would verbally attack me in the name of protecting her. I have never reacted angrily to any of this, always kept my cool but I have to admit I did start to avoid and ignore her for my own protection. This of course escalated her behaviour. She would create situations that I couldn't figure for the life of me. She would gang up on me with people that didn't know me very well and make me look bad and then she would call me the next day as if nothing happened trying to plan a joint birthday for me and her GF. Every time she would have an argument with her GF she would be super nice to me,hug me and want to be my friend again then the next time I would see them she would be horrible and hostile to me again. Whenever her GF speaks to me or emails me it provokes angry outbursts towards me from my friend.I have come to believe she reads her GF emails. I have the feeling that her main aim is to make me lose my temper and say something horrible to her in front other people so that her rage at me could be justified. I refuse to play along, I have never shouted back. I also get the feeling that she wants to isolate her GF and this is why she gets so angry when I talk to her. Has anything like this happen to any of you? Do people with BP change when they get into a relationship? I am very sad as I feel like I have been left with no other choice but to cut all contact. Her rages seriously started to effect my self-esteem and I could no longer relax in her company.

Need advice, I am at the end of my rope. I married a lady with BPD, she told me she suffered from depression but that was all. I suffer from depression which has come down through my Dad's family as far as we can trace back. My meds do a good job, but relationship has gotten me down.
My wife has burned up over $300.00 worth of gold jewelry in the past. Jumped out of our truck while going 30 mph, coming to stop sign. Opened door to jump on freeway while I was doing 75. i grabbed her by the hair and pulled her down in the seat until I could get stopped. Called 911, as I was scared to drive again for her safety. They took her and she almost beat me home, being released. We have a George Foreman under our bed, been there three years, she does not want to get it damaged. I can not leave the house without her with me, she does not even realize what this does to me. She has tried suicide twice with pills, in front of me. The first time, I ran and grabbed the bottle, she had already swallowed some, not knowing how many we headed to ER. She spent the night and drank the charcoal mix and came home the next day. Next time she grabbed the bottle of pills, I was about 12 ft. away. I decided to try and talk her down. I asked her to think of her kids, think of her grand-kids, all who loved her, including me. she downed most of the bottle. Off we went to ER. Some of her family say I wanted her to die because I did not rush her and will not speak to me or come to our home. She hugged me yesterday and I put my arm around her and squeezed her. Later she ask me why I did not want to hug her. I keep telling myself this is an illness and if it was cancer I would not leave her, but to be honest I am happier when she is gone.
Tonight she is spending the night with a daughter, one who hates me and won't come to our home.
I feel hopeless, I withdraw, I feel there is not talking to her. I would really like to leave but I feel sorry for her and in a special way I do love her. I think if I leave she will most likely kill herself. I feel trapped. Thanks for letting me vent. Jery

Hi Jerry, read your story and felt your pain. I’m going through the same thing. One minute I’m looking up lawyers to file for divorce and the next, trying to figure out how to save a thirty-year relationship that is very dear to me. My wife has a history of stormy moods and violent rages, for the most part directed at me. I somehow bumped along with this over the years even when she declared her undying love for a friend of ours - and who was as surprised as anybody to find out. I read that the symptoms of BPD are supposed to fade as the years go by, and as we are both middle-aged by now I had pretty much decided that most of my problems were by now in the past.

But this year things took a turn for the worse. It started with a playful posting of an erotic photo, which rapidly accelerated into online sex chat which consumed her every spare moment. I’ve got no hang-ups about sex, but soon the language got intensely romantic and I knew that she was concealing various conversations. I confronted her and got flat denial as well as the ‘I will love you until I die’ speech. I knew it couldn’t rest there and by means of which I am not proud, found a way to read her private mail. It hurts me like hell to read them, but as I know one guy has tried to blackmail her, think I have no choice.

Like every BP partner, I want her into therapy, but I am pretty sure that confronting her with the fact that I know the contents of her mind is not going to help! From what I know of the dark BP interior, mixing it up with reality would be like mixing antimatter and matter: a trillion megaton explosion. So I am just trying to learn as much as possible about BPD before I do anything. I guess I should count myself lucky that she is not suicidal like your wife, but I seem to have got myself in a situation where I can have my heart broken twenty times a day. Until I work out what to do, this is my strategy for staying sane. From the way you write ‘off we went to ER’ with such resignation it sounds like you are hanging onto your sense of humour. That’s how I’m trying to deal with the situation. I just read that when we go on holiday next week she wishes it was with him, not me. That hurt, but then I thought, ‘now that could be a real holiday’.

Hope this helps.

As someone (non) who has recently entered into a relationship with a BPDer I stumbled upon this website that is very helpful.

http://ajmahari.com/

It is a site that is by a life coach who has recovered from BPD. I have not bought any of the ebooks or audio but have found the articles helpful for me. I found one in paticular that actually answered one of my questions I asked on here that never got a response even. I realize now that until my boyfriend is in therapy it is completely normal to not hear from him after we get closer. I also found out that there is such a thing as a quite BPD which acts inward instead of outward. This whole time I was waiting for some explosion to happen, but I have yet to see him externalize ANYTHING rage wise other than saying he hates himself, his life, etc... Hope someone else finds this as helpful as I did.

Thanks for the link, gf. What keeps blowing my mind with my BP wife is the absolute break between the inside and the outside worlds for her. The inside is a no-go zone, though my post above explains how I know a little of what is in there. I’m kind of the opposite of you, having assumed for years that all BPs hurt themselves. When I discovered that this could be turned outwards, I stopped wondering why I got the bruises...

The link below helped me realise that confrontation is not going to get my BP to the doctor. I have to accept that maybe nothing ever will, but a big shift in attitude by me is the beginning. No matter how bad her behaviour has been, all my resentment just has to be dumped. The link is a very patient psychiatrist advising a BP partner and the really good stuff is towards the end. Good luck.

http://www.doctorslounge.com/psychiatry ... 14078.html

Im a 23 year old male that has custody of my three year old daughter. My ex is bpd. I basicly kicked her out and filled for a divorce. She never once asked or pushed for custody. I have prim phys and we have joint legal. We settled out of court. Now my ex keeps saying she is getting a lawyer and coming after custody and on and on. I dont know if she will do it or not. She has been saying it on and off over the last 8 months. We tryed to work things out and it would go well then out of the blue she wouldnt call or text and would bail on my daughter and i. I would loose it when she told my daughter on the phone that she was on her way and then not show leaving my daughter very very upset. I have mad it a point now that we are past fixing things and i am moving on. She has had swings up and down back and foward and every other way. What do i need to expect out of her? I have loved her soo much and still do. I keep falling for her again and again. Im stuck and need advice any help i will be greatful for.....