Thread for those in disordered/abusive relationships

Hey shanzeek,

I encourage you to hang unto to those moments of clarity. It's very easy to recall those moments of apparent empathy/insight, but when you saw nothing is going to change, that's when you did see him clearly (even though that realization sucks).

I can write I know how difficult it is to break the habit. You want to see the best in him and that is a positive trait, but also I hope you can remind yourself, how many more times can you repeat the same before you cannot anymore, of if you do (as you wrote), you just end up miserable, controlled, a vague shadow of yourself, and guess what (and I suspect you already know this)? -

At the point you are utterly broken, lost your will and joy, he will treat you like utter crap. There will be no empathy, and maybe even sadism. His sense of empowerment will have peaked, you will be boring, and off he will go to chase new supply to fill the black hole/slavery of a soul that cannot enjoy anything but more attention, approval, validation.

I do get the desire to out ego him, to win, but a suggestion?

Let him win. Give in. Fail his tests. Do not try. A 90 degree choice. Has what you have been doing so far worked? Amazing things happen when we break out of our pattern.

xdude wrote:
At the point you are utterly broken, lost your will and joy, he will treat you like utter crap. There will be no empathy, and maybe even sadism. His sense of empowerment will have peaked, you will be boring, and off he will go to chase new supply to fill the black hole/slavery of a soul that cannot enjoy anything but more attention, approval, validation.

This already happened, first time we broke up (he suddenly dumped me right after I came from holidays), and it was exactly what you described. I never intend to forget that experience nor re-live it again. He expected me to fall apart (and I did, in forum though, didn't give him that pleasure) and beg for mercy, but I only disappeared without a trace. After that I learned to play his game and avoided his devaluation phase by always leaving first, but I'm not interested in playing that game any more, or any other. We both just keep losing. I really just miss being happy and not waiting for a knife in the back.

shanzeek wrote:...After that I learned to play his game and avoided his devaluation phase by always leaving first, but I'm not interested in playing that game any more, or any other. We both just keep losing. I really just miss being happy and not waiting for a knife in the back.

Yes, having to live in constant defense mode is tiring, and it is definitely not happiness.

The NPD types I've known all had grim personalities. That's different than having a serious personality. Serious personality types can find happiness in what interests them and compels them to focus; they can also take great joy in their personal relationships that they take seriously.

I use the word 'grim' on purpose, because there is a darkness in the world view of grim types. They may experience moments of elation when supply is pouring in, but that's not really the same as just wanting to be happy, really enjoying that others are happy, let alone the ability to feel happy that a partner is happy too. Otherwise they seem to spend most of their time stewing about something/someone, or plotting/planning how to get another fix.

I believe NPD types can attract others who are reasonably happy, to start, but there is something about the NPD belief system that has them wanting to tear happiness in others down. Maybe it is envy? Maybe it's jealousy? Maybe it's a need to control by degrading other's self-will? Maybe it's all they know. The grim NPD type (those I have known) perceive happiness as foreign, silly, stupid, how can you be so foolish thinking? Whatever the reason, no matter how happy the partner is to start... 'That happiness has got to go. The only thing that should make you happy is that you are fortunate that I picked you, and you get to be with me!'

Yes, if you play the devaluation games and resist, that may keep their attention. The game sucks. The partner of someone with NPD spends the vast majority of their time playing defense, while the person with NPD is on the offense. He/she gets to probe for self-esteem weaknesses and if they use the covert approach, hide behind 'who me? ... all I said was... you are too sensitive... it just a joke... you are crazy... etc.'

Odds are too the person with NPD has picked a partner with a conscience, someone who avoids intentionally hurting others in general, and goes out of their way to avoid hurting their NPD partner. Not only does the conscience partner spend their time in near constant defense mode, but there is virtually no cost to the person with NPD. The only thing that makes the person with NPD ?happy?, in a very twisted away, is poking holes in their partner's self-esteem. Seeing their partner struggle and/or crumble.

If the partner crumbles, well that must be 'you', because people with NPD don't like to perceive themselves as being cruel. Besides weakness is pathetic anyway, and 'I can do better! I deserve better!'.

Sadistic empowerment, elation when winning (at all costs), addiction to ego strokes, yea, none of this is 'happiness' and there is nothing to win by joining someone with NPD in these pursuits.

I agree with 'I just miss being happy'. That can be a powerful personal mantra for someone who is trying to free themselves from psychological abuse.

I believe NPD types can attract others who are reasonably happy, to start, but there is something about the NPD belief system that has them wanting to tear happiness in others down. Maybe it is envy? Maybe it's jealousy? Maybe it's a need to control by degrading other's self-will? Maybe it's all they know. The grim NPD type (those I have known) perceive happiness as foreign, silly, stupid, how can you be so foolish thinking? Whatever the reason, no matter how happy the partner is to start... 'That happiness has got to go. The only thing that should make you happy is that you are fortunate that I picked you, and you get to be with me!'

This is interesting, it took me a lot of time to figure out it was never in his interest for either of us to be happy. He really just kept sabotaging my (my, not our!) attempts of working on a relationship and I kept stripping him off of responsibility. Caught him couple of times enjoying my suffering, as the pattern kept repeating I realized it's done deliberately. He'd mention something covertly hurtful (always had few jockers in his sleeve for this sort of occasion) and would then simply enjoy watching my face go through various stages of pain. We actually discussed this and were both aware it was happening, but the awareness didn't influence the interaction in any way. After this he'd actually behave nicely as his sadistic urges were satisfied, I guess. Maybe I would be better at handling typical grandiose narcissist, but sadism is something that is hard to argue or work on. Not really sure how to approach someone who enjoys making me suffer. Can't say I blame him either for feeling these urges, but also couldn't have stayed. Just a lose-lose situation.

Yes, if you play the devaluation games and resist, that may keep their attention.

This would always backfire in some form. There's no avoidance of devaluation, I was only just delaying it really and deluding myself.

I agree with 'I just miss being happy'. That can be a powerful personal mantra for someone who is trying to free themselves from psychological abuse.

I actually think it's my current mental state (depression, anxiety) that is ironically helping me to end this rather than a strength of a character or some determination. I feel like I've completely shut down and there is no way for him or anyone else to reach me emotionally, no matter what he comes up with. (so far just keeps sending mails from various accounts)

Have you managed to avoid toxic relationships after the one with your ex?

shanzeek wrote:Have you managed to avoid toxic relationships after the one with your ex?

No, though I haven't tried any relationships since, and my ex still contacts me too. So yes, but no. Not something I think I would do again, but I cannot say I have avoided them as I have not made any effort to try either way. I am however far more aware when others aggressively push for what they want (overt or covert), and take it far less seriously. What they want matters no more than what I want, so that is an upgrade!

Maybe in a few years

Glad to hear about the progress.

Feeling the same way, perhaps in a decade or three.

shanzeek wrote:Feeling the same way, perhaps in a decade or three.

Amen

"I believe NPD types can attract others who are reasonably happy, to start, but there is something about the NPD belief system that has them wanting to tear happiness in others down."

Interesting observation about 'grim' NPD personality types, never thought of it that way before. If the grim pwNPD can't be happy, he makes sure nobody else is either. It's a form of dragging another person down to his level of grimness, a sadistic beating down in order to make himself look better. "Winning" is his happiness fix, albeit fleeting. Unfortunately it's temporary...until the next happy face draws attention away from him.

Whenever I discussed concept of happiness with my ex, mine was in relation to people (I lived in few different cities and seem to connect the level of happiness with people that were present in these cities and being able to study what I like) and his was in relation to power, dominance and success. This probably extended to his views on relationships, happiness for him is being in full control of the other person and as such, directly opposed to my concept of it that involves mutual respect.

Unclear where to post, might as well've been a what the hell are you doing thread. Over-thinking.

Was in a very unpleasant situation last night. Had to tell Him at least fifteen (15) times (while locked in a toilet with him), I don't and will never trust a word he says or feel safe in his presence, and to leave me alone. He wouldn't let go of forced hug I was caught in for 4, 5 mins. Wanted to show me how his heart beats faster due to invasive nature of discussion and my presence. Kept saying I am just afraid of my feelings and getting hurt again, but I have to let him prove it to me, the personality change he's willing to go through, supposedly because of me. Ignored all my (both short and ones with a futnote) nos, complete irresponsiveness to everything I (tried to) say, it was a monologue. Tried to kiss me at one point, then few mins later told me he'll burn down my entrance if I (..etc). Then explained it was a joke. Threatened a friend of mine after that and accused them of working against our relationship since its beginning. All the things I heard and saw during this argument (about myself and our relationship; threats, cursing, in general a full attack mode, I never saw him use this persona or whatever it was in my presence, or never one as severe) triggered an unusual emotional experience in me. As if something snapped at one point and even though I was still able to hear everything that was being discussed, it stopped feeling in any significant way related to myself, almost like standing above myself, drinking my beer and peacefully observing the conflict in these two individuals in a my life without me kind of way. It isn't something that I experienced ever before I think. This was the first time I was the obstacle preventing him from getting what he wants, and I'm unsure how to feel about the whole thing. He switched from playing the bad cop to creepishly flattering good one within few sentences. it was all fake, I know this person well, it didn't at all sound like himself. I mostly thought he lost his mind. Or we both have. I am unwilling to treat him as I would some random person trying to force me into something, he's someone I know. Was my person. If I show concern (that I do feel) for his mental state (aggression, etc) he'll only use it to manipulate and sneak back in. Feel like my brain will explode from over-analyzing this. I caught few short moments of genuine laughter during the toilet scene, everything else was a facade. Guess it's back to being full strangers.