Our partner

Inverted Narcissistic Craving

Narcissistic Personality Disorder message board, open discussion, and online support group.

Moderator: realityhere

Inverted Narcissistic Craving

Postby Zoicite23 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:03 pm

Hello!

I'm a 24-year-old gay man in Australia. I have a younger boyfriend, it's not yet apparent to me if things will work out but so far it's going okay.

I read a link someone posted about Inverted Narcissism and am surprised to find parts that strongly apply to me. Would I call myself an inverted narcissist? I don't think so... but maybe. I literally only discovered the term a day or so ago.

Narcissism usually seems to come from our upbringing. I've looked back on my life, early developmental years, and found interesting circumstances and things that could have shaped my current personality.

Childhood: It was lovely. Before I hit puberty life was lovely. Sometimes my parents confused me with their irregularities. In kindergarten I was nice to everyone and my classmates would ask me why I was so nice, why I'd lend things without expecting them back. And I just understood the Golden rule and that was that. I was rarely ever a brat.

I did, however, have a weird masochistic compulsion that made itself apparent when I was as young as ten or eleven. I don't know what caused it. I tried to make myself the butt of jokes. I actively humiliated myself and made myself out to be an idiot as a ways of entertaining other people. I feel uncomfortable to admit that. I don't understand where the pathology came from. If you believe in past lives and spirituality, there could be something there. Anyway, what I did went beyond being a 'class clown', I was never one to misbehave. I encouraged people to mock and ridicule me, and I don't know why. I made myself out to be an idiot.

As a teenager I had intense self-hate and depression for no reason I could understand. My family does have a history of mental illness on both sides. I continued to be a disgusting idiot, I think I degraded myself to please other people. How strange. I had a form of dysphoria about body hair and it made me disgusted by myself.

Anyway I think that in my late teenage years after some changes (including shaving, which had never occurred to me at the time), my self-esteem slingshotted the other way into narcissism, in some regards. I do believe the inverted narcissist can alternate as the situation allows, but perhaps only in some ways and not completely. A truly fascinating condition now that I've read into it and its counterpart. I did and do often feel that I'm extremely beautiful, sometimes the most beautiful person I've ever seen.

I became deeply religious at a young age and so altruism became further embedded in my psyche. I'm not religious anymore though still have spiritual beliefs. I am, even now, realising how much my personality is truly shaped by this disorder. I'm undiagnosed. I never believed I had a disorder, until this literal moment. I'm well-functioning. I do get obsessive and delusional. Wow... narcissism... inverted narcissism, a personality disorder.

I was very lonely all my life and wanted nothing more than a boyfriend. I even self-harmed over it I was so depressed and despairing. It was all-pervasive, this need to have a relationship. The genetic disposition of my family, the intense depression and self-hating of my early teenage life, tendency to be stuck in mental loops and later despair over and need for dating is probably what shaped me to be this way.

My first relationship lasted six months, he had anxiety that he takes medication for now. The relationship was one-sided and I was extremely attentive and doting, I believed that he needed the care because of his condition. I didn't love him and didn't care much when he broke up with me. I believe my current and former boyfriend also felt that I was in love with them just because of how I was, but the truth is I am simply very attentive and doting and enthralled by my partners.

I crave someone to worship, someone who I can be their narcissistic supply. If I had to choose I'd rather date a codependent because I want stability in a relationship, certainly need it if I am to love at my strongest. I sometimes like to dominate, I certainly like to provide care, which is why I'd want a codependent. The idea of being with or worshipping a narcissist is still exciting for me to contemplate. I don't think I could give an inverted narcissist the bullying they may require.

Anyway... input will be highly valued by me. Thanks for reading.
User avatar
Zoicite23
Consumer 2
Consumer 2
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:15 pm
Local time: Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:35 am
Blog: View Blog (6)


ADVERTISEMENT

Re: Inverted Narcissistic Craving

Postby AProphet » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:47 am

Thanks for sharing.

Lets start with this. I could have edited your post, but on second thought there is no need for you to read your post again, you spent enough time editing, so just a sample so I can get threw to you with what I mean:

"As a teenager I had intense self-hate and depression for no reason I could understand. I always hoped for the best, tried to apply the golden rule to everyone, care about everyone, even if I didnt care about myself, didnt think I could undo the damage done to me. I never liked myself the way I was, I often drifted off into fantasy where I was better, more witty, successfull and accepted for who I am. I actively humiliated myself and made myself out to be an idiot as a ways of entertaining other people. I thoughts its ok, I liked making others laugh, maybe most of all things. I was always the class clown. I missbehaved a lot, could never fit in to societie's rulestructure.
Anyway I think that in my early twenties after some changes (moving out to student dorm, taking care of myself), my self-esteem slingshotted the other way into narcissism, in some regards.
I became deeply atheistic at a young age and saw humanity as a kind of a "spaceship earth". Altruism became deeply embedded im my psyche, I thought I love all people, becouse of the destiny we share on this planet. This made me often taken advantage of. Im undiagnosed, but I always believed myself to be pahological. I shared this thought with my sister, who also held this belief. I was very lonely all my life, but didnt believe a girlfriend would help that. I could connect to some people in some regards, but never felt anyone truly understood me."

My hope is to illustrate how much the disorder shapes your behavior. Now about your newly aquired self-awareness ("I posses inverted-narcissist traits"). You must understand that this awareness does not equal the awareness of ones actions, why one does the things he does. One of the characteristics of NPD is the lack of the capacity to self-reflect. This one makes sence. One couldnt be self-abusive if he understood, that he does it. You cannot know, or you might actualy stop. You say:

"Wow... narcissism... inverted narcissism, a personality disorder"

Yes, I faced disbelief like that, just like you did, when I first found out. Now you bring up a key difference. I had many short relationships, which all failed and I just didnt believe I should make someone unhappy, by being with a pathological person like me. I thought Ill just be alone, doing my things, learning about the world, an observer, living vicariously threw my intellectual and artistic pursuits. Your craving to be with someone has led you on the right path to answer the questions you've always had. NPD is to be primarily understood threw your relations to other people. You must be aware by now that you lack emotional empathy, the ability to empathise or emotional intelligence, and whole object relations,without which you cannot understand or meaningfully relate to other people. We can talk later in detail how this works, but for now be aware that the feelings you are having are not the same feelings other people have. You dont think of yourself as emotionally shallow do you? Did you think you were the most empathic, caring person as well?

You say that you crave to be supply to someone, but that is a very recent realisation right? I did exactly that, it was stronger than me, but without realising it. Actively seeking the abuse. I am very ashamed of that. Id advise you to investigate codependancy further, you dont have the right idea yet.
A codependant is primarily someone who stays in the relationship regardless of the abuse inflicted. They are deeply sacrificial and need the other persons validation. I have no doubt you could make a codependant happy, though, just by accepting her as she is. You could give another invert the bullying he requires under special circumstances, one author explains a method, you'd have to be in a life crisis following narcissistic injury, to shift your patterns while he restores your supply and hope. Dont be so sure about that anyway, I did find myself abusing inverts when I felt justified by their actions (stupidity, dishonesty). Not for my pleasure, becouse I believed I have to give them a lesson.
AProphet
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 236
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:02 pm
Local time: Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:35 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Inverted Narcissistic Craving

Postby Zoicite23 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:16 am

Thanks for the feedback, though I'm a little confused by parts of it. I don't need to edit my post at all, I'm happy with it as it is, which is why I posted it like that. I have only recently seen that parts of how Inverted Narcissism is described apply to me, but as I have many successful friendships and relate to people mostly well, I wouldn't say I'm all that sick. You could say I'm in denial, but due to my life evidence and experiences I just really doubt I'm consumed by any disorder. I think if anything, my personality may be atypical, but I have atypical interests. Thanks anyway.
User avatar
Zoicite23
Consumer 2
Consumer 2
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:15 pm
Local time: Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:35 am
Blog: View Blog (6)

Re: Inverted Narcissistic Craving

Postby AProphet » Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:55 am

What I ment was that I edited what you wrote, but how it applies to me, to illustrate a point. I hope this clarifies.
AProphet
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 236
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:02 pm
Local time: Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:35 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Inverted Narcissistic Craving

Postby dontlookathim » Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:17 pm

Inverted narcissism is a theory coined by Sam Vaknin. Not that Mr. Vaknin is wrong on everything, but all of his subtypes certainly are rubbish. You either have a grandiose sense of self or not. You either crave perfection and superiority or not.

A person having little actual narcissism, healthy or pathological, being a narcissist themselves makes absolutely no sense.

NPD has very specific criteria. There are no subtypes that deviate from that criteria.

Look at the criteria, do you think any apply to you? If not, maybe you just have low self-esteem or anxiety issues or even another PD.
User avatar
dontlookathim
Consumer 2
Consumer 2
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:39 pm
Local time: Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:35 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Inverted Narcissistic Craving

Postby Zoicite23 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:16 pm

Hmmm I dunno.

I used to have self-esteem issues but not anymore. I'm not so fixed, I swing around but in ways that seem pathological. Something was realised by me when I read that article, it was fascinating and I could sense that parts were correct. I know that when you're disordered your feelings are the last things you want to trust, but it just sounded right and felt right, so it's worth considering.
User avatar
Zoicite23
Consumer 2
Consumer 2
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:15 pm
Local time: Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:35 am
Blog: View Blog (6)

Re: Inverted Narcissistic Craving

Postby AProphet » Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:50 pm

dontlookathim wrote:Inverted narcissism is a theory coined by Sam Vaknin. Not that Mr. Vaknin is wrong on everything, but all of his subtypes certainly are rubbish. You either have a grandiose sense of self or not. You either crave perfection and superiority or not.


Vaknin is absolutely correct and im proof of it. The DSM-V doesnt even aknowledge that there are both grandiose and vulerable, covert and overt aspects of pathlogical narcissism. Your eaither/or's are non sequitor, its the expression of the traits thats important.

dontlookathim wrote:A person having little actual narcissism, healthy or pathological, being a narcissist themselves makes absolutely no sense.


A person having little actual narcissism? YOU CAN HAVE LITTLE OR A LOT OF NARCISSISTIC TRAITS, not a little of pathological narcissism, which is entirely different. I know you all love to argue about your little special brand of narcissism, but you are all the same, you all think (or more precisely DONT THINK) in the same way. Only the expression and severity of the traits actually differs inbetween you. Like I tried to show in my example, editing OP's words as if they were my own.

dontlookathim wrote:NPD has very specific criteria. There are no subtypes that deviate from that criteria.


No subtypes for NPD? why is there million google results for covert narcissism (realy should be called inverted, but its the fault of the researchers that they still cant clearly define the category, that confuses people). Maybe you should start thinking, instead of following your holy book, DSM-5.

Anyway your idiocy is enraging. Just like mine was enraging. Still is enraging to me.
AProphet
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 236
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:02 pm
Local time: Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:35 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Inverted Narcissistic Craving

Postby AProphet » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:03 pm

Zoicite23 wrote:Hmmm I dunno.

I used to have self-esteem issues but not anymore. I'm not so fixed, I swing around but in ways that seem pathological. Something was realised by me when I read that article, it was fascinating and I could sense that parts were correct. I know that when you're disordered your feelings are the last things you want to trust, but it just sounded right and felt right, so it's worth considering.


Your self esteem depends on external validation, aka narcissistic supply at the moment (Asuming your intuition is correct and you do see inverted traits in yourself, but best go to a specialist for a diagnosis) so any fix is nescesairly temporary. They wont be able to diagnose you with inverted narcissism becouse they dont believe that criterion exists. But being diagnosed with NPD, or even knowing you lack empathy or self reflection is a big step forward.

Exactly the oposite, you need to trust yourself. Not your feelings, thats true, becouse you dont actualy have genuine feelings yet (not getting into the details). But you should trust analitical psychology, fathered by Karl Gustav Jung. Start learning about his methods and terminology. Start recording and interpreting your dreams. The most important terms can be found on the main wikipedia page, start there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analytical_psychology
AProphet
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 236
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:02 pm
Local time: Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:35 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Inverted Narcissistic Craving

Postby covertunsure » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:30 pm

I can relate to a lot of your post. I'm also gay, almost 30 in the U.S. I almost always feel lonely. I crave and require admiration and attention—although you didn't mention much about this, which if you didn't need this as a narcissist would be very rare, almost excluding such a diagnosis.

I also felt terrible about myself (and my body hair, for that matter!) in adolescence--and still do most of the time. I also felt ugly and slingshotted into the other extreme of often feeling amazing looking and beautiful when people stare at and admire me.

Your belief about being the most beautiful in the world borders on, if not being, delusional, as literally NO ONE is the most beautiful in the world or the smarter. I say this as someone who's been called "incredibly handsome," beautiful, etc. (Never gorgeous though, which is still upsetting.) So I'm not coming at it from someone who's not attractive and wouldn't get it. First, A) Beauty is subjective, and B) there is ALWAYS someone better looking. BTW, this is something I really cannot tolerate either as a narcissist. And I understand it intellectually but cannot emotionally accept it and when I'm confronted in the real world by a more attractive person, I typically freak out and find a way to boost my self-esteem. When I'm with a good looking friend and they get more attention, I get extremely jealous and angry.

Your class-clown type behavior, your self-hatred, all these sound like low self-esteem with compensatory narcissism. Maybe vulnerable narcissism, as I think they're often related or even one in the same.

The main questions are, do you have empathy? Do you have the real ability to self-reflect and introspect or do your internal mechanisms seem inaccessible? Do you apologize and feel guilt when you do something wrong, or is it purely shame-based or externalizing?
covertunsure
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2014 6:02 am
Local time: Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:35 pm
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: Inverted Narcissistic Craving

Postby ZeroZ » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:58 pm

Pathological narcissism is all about a fragile ego and low self esteem covered by a grandiose or idealized version the narcissist thinks want to see. The pwNPD may or may not be aware of this fact, most aren’t as it would disrupt the delusion, but some know deep down it’s all a sham. High levels of healthy narcissism isn’t a personality disorder, thinking you are great no matter what happens is great, I don’t see any downsides too it, narcs if nothing else have an UNSTABLE ego.
ZeroZ
Consumer 6
Consumer 6
 
Posts: 1293
Joined: Thu May 09, 2019 4:03 pm
Local time: Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:35 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Next

Return to Narcissistic Personality Disorder Forum




  • Related articles
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: NPDwidow and 61 guests