Inverted Narcissistic Craving

Thanks so much guys!

It seems more likely that my genetic predisposition and powerfully emotionally afflicted years altered me, along with me getting stuck in mental loops and obsessing. Damaged my personality in a way similar to NPD.

I suspect that cause I seem to be able to empathize and I am highly introspective as I find it fascinating. I don't often do things wrong, when I do I suppose I'm mad, at myself or the other person. My ego is fairly stable, I went through shifts that lasted years, cause of teenage hormones probably. Thanks guys

ZeroZ wrote:Pathological narcissism is all about a fragile ego and low self esteem covered by a grandiose or idealized version the narcissist thinks want to see. The pwNPD may or may not be aware of this fact, most aren’t as it would disrupt the delusion, but some know deep down it’s all a sham. High levels of healthy narcissism isn’t a personality disorder, thinking you are great no matter what happens is great, I don’t see any downsides too it, narcs if nothing else have an UNSTABLE ego.

Yes, I have a very fragile ego and as my psychologist says "identity disturbance," but the latter may be more BPD related (not dx'd with BPD but definitely have some mild/moderate traits).

The desperately idealized version of needing to be perfect to be worthwhile and "enough" is a form of mental terrorism inflicted by the superego. It is unbearable at times.

As you say, I do know deep down it's a sham, that I'm NOT as attractive or perfect as I feel I "need" to be, but sometimes external admiration puts me into a state of grandiosity where I do indeed feel legitimately invulnerable and perfect.

Black and white thinking, like I have to be the best at this or I’m worthless and sack of human trash, Narcs don’t take failures we’ll, it’s a crack in the reflection, they would rather avoid any comparison to begin with most times

ZeroZ wrote:Black and white thinking, like I have to be the best at this or I’m worthless and sack of human trash, Narcs don’t take failures we’ll, it’s a crack in the reflection, they would rather avoid any comparison to begin with most times

Yes, exactly. Whenever I'm inferior to someone in looks, intelligence, ability, I feel worthless and trash. I hope this is "fixable" or at least somewhat changeable in therapy.

BPDers also split, but I guess the difference is pwNPD are about perfection and pwBPD are about ... well, I don't know. Being all good or all bad, but not about striving for perfection.

Diagnostic criteria for narcissistic personality disorder dsmIV and 5

https://www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/philo/cou ... rs.DSM.pdf


Dsm5
“a. Identity: Excessive reference to others for self-definition and self-esteem regulation; exaggerated self-appraisal may be inflated or deflated, or vacillate between extremes; emotional regulation mirrors fluctuations in self-esteem.”

ZeroZ wrote:Diagnostic criteria for narcissistic personality disorder dsmIV and 5

https://www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/philo/cou ... rs.DSM.pdf


Dsm5
“a. Identity: Excessive reference to others for self-definition and self-esteem regulation; exaggerated self-appraisal may be inflated or deflated, or vacillate between extremes; emotional regulation mirrors fluctuations in self-esteem.”

Thank you ZeroZ. As I mention, the only the grandiose variant of narcissism is recognized in DSM-5. And I cant honestly support something which was contrary to my experience, even if the research community stands behind it. Anyway I believe now that dreams are prophetic and you can have a dialogue with your unconscious. Thats not only my belief, Karl Gustav Jung, the father of analitical psychology, aparently believed that.

ZeroZ wrote:Diagnostic criteria for narcissistic personality disorder dsmIV and 5

https://www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/philo/cou ... rs.DSM.pdf


Dsm5
“a. Identity: Excessive reference to others for self-definition and self-esteem regulation; exaggerated self-appraisal may be inflated or deflated, or vacillate between extremes; emotional regulation mirrors fluctuations in self-esteem.”

I didn't realize that specific language was in the DSM. That is upsetting and disturbing, because I identify with that more than the BPD criteria: "3. Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self"

How are the two different, or I should ask, how are they similar, if they are?

My psychologist has said he perceives "identity disturbance" after our very first consultation. He isn't sure about NPD. I'm concerned now that he's alluding to the new definition/criteria of NPD and doesn't want to say it.

Identity has always been an issue with me, and I completely relate to "emotional regulation mirrors fluctuations in self-esteem." But I also have a mild bipolar disorder and general affective instability, so who the hell knows what's going on. I'm tired of all of this. I wish I just had BPD, at least they can be treated.

covertunsure wrote:

ZeroZ wrote:Diagnostic criteria for narcissistic personality disorder dsmIV and 5

https://www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/philo/cou ... rs.DSM.pdf


Dsm5
“a. Identity: Excessive reference to others for self-definition and self-esteem regulation; exaggerated self-appraisal may be inflated or deflated, or vacillate between extremes; emotional regulation mirrors fluctuations in self-esteem.”

I didn't realize that specific language was in the DSM. That is upsetting and disturbing, because I identify with that more than the BPD criteria: "3. Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self"

How are the two different, or I should ask, how are they similar, if they are?

My psychologist has said he perceives "identity disturbance" after our very first consultation. He isn't sure about NPD. I'm concerned now that he's alluding to the new definition/criteria of NPD and doesn't want to say it.

Identity has always been an issue with me, and I completely relate to "emotional regulation mirrors fluctuations in self-esteem." But I also have a mild bipolar disorder and general affective instability, so who the hell knows what's going on. I'm tired of all of this. I wish I just had BPD, at least they can be treated.

covertunsure, since you mention your doubt inbetween NPD/BPD and which one exactly applies to you, I would like to offer a video explaining the main similarity between the two. Both lack whole object relations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uunT2JV5EtM&t=63s

And yes, you have to be aware that he will not diagnose you with covert variant of NPD, becouse he is unaware of that distinction. Borderlines do have emotional empathy.

AProphet wrote:

covertunsure wrote:

ZeroZ wrote:Diagnostic criteria for narcissistic personality disorder dsmIV and 5

https://www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/philo/cou ... rs.DSM.pdf


Dsm5
“a. Identity: Excessive reference to others for self-definition and self-esteem regulation; exaggerated self-appraisal may be inflated or deflated, or vacillate between extremes; emotional regulation mirrors fluctuations in self-esteem.”

I didn't realize that specific language was in the DSM. That is upsetting and disturbing, because I identify with that more than the BPD criteria: "3. Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self"

How are the two different, or I should ask, how are they similar, if they are?

My psychologist has said he perceives "identity disturbance" after our very first consultation. He isn't sure about NPD. I'm concerned now that he's alluding to the new definition/criteria of NPD and doesn't want to say it.

Identity has always been an issue with me, and I completely relate to "emotional regulation mirrors fluctuations in self-esteem." But I also have a mild bipolar disorder and general affective instability, so who the hell knows what's going on. I'm tired of all of this. I wish I just had BPD, at least they can be treated.

covertunsure, since you mention your doubt inbetween NPD/BPD and which one exactly applies to you, I would like to offer a video explaining the main similarity between the two. Both lack whole object relations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uunT2JV5EtM&t=63s

And yes, you have to be aware that he will not diagnose you with covert variant of NPD, becouse he is unaware of that distinction. Borderlines do have emotional empathy.

I definitely have emotional empathy, even if it's sometimes less than average (especially if I'm devaluing someone cuz I perceive that they don't find me attractive). I feel bad when I manipulate someone. But I do it anyway (e.g. manipulating people into giving me attention/admiration). So does it matter if I have empathy? Can people with severe but maybe not NPD-level narcissism have empathy?

No. The answer is a clear NO. When faced with NPD, you dont have empathy or feelings for that matter.
You have a multiple personality, a false-self simulating the emotion and its affect, the physical sensations, to be brief, fake empathy, but only so far as it concerns your supply needs. And your positive feelings come bundled with the negative ones, you can go from one feelings to another in a instant.
So the grandiose narcissist feels special, entitled, better than others, deserving if supply is plentiful, and worthless, meaningless, empty if he fails to secure supply. The covert feels only wortless, undeserving, failure. You actualy feel good and functional when you are abusing yourself, but the low self esteem never leaves you.