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Who is disordered - subject or therapist

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Read below first. Who is disordered & Who is Normal?

Therapist is likely quite disordered & subject is likely normal
1
7%
Subject is likely quite disordered & therapist is likely normal
3
20%
Both are likely quite disordered
8
53%
Neither are likely quite disordered
0
No votes
Subject is likely BPD, would likely benefit from having a second, concurrent therapist during therapy
3
20%
 
Total votes : 15

Who is disordered - subject or therapist

Postby wisdom » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:56 pm

Read below, then take the poll.

Was looking at a book review for Borderline personality disorder: a clinical guide, by John G. Gunderson, Paul S. Links. Gunderson is out of Harvard (see: Gunderson Bio) and wrote The Diagnostic Interview for Borderline Patients (DIB-R) , perhaps the best-known "test" (a lengthy structured interview) for diagnosing BPD. Saw this very interesting review on his book.

After reading, take the poll... Feel free to post a comment.

Subject, in a book review wrote:Having met John Gunderson in person, I would describe his tactics as those of a sadist or misogynist rather than those of a doctor of psychology. The man seems to enjoy nothing more than distressing his patients, almost for sport. I've seen him smile maniacally over a patient whose confidence he has shaken to the core using a barrage of unsettling and prying tactics designed to accuse, belittle, and shame the patient--often to the point of tears. Once the patient, usually female, is manipulated to the height of a tearful outburst, he then remarks with smug satisfaction that he has evoked a 'typical response of BPD.'

What he has in fact done is verbally abuse a human being, but he seems to have no qualms with that. This man is irresponsible and reprehensible. He has merely repackaged 'hysteria' in his book, whose pages he has written on the pains of hundreds of patients for whom he has probably caused more harm than good. He has no sympathy for the human condition, and he is in my opinion a blight on the profession. This man is no expert. He is a malevolent buffoon
.
Last edited by wisdom on Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I am not a professional therapist. My postings here are provided for general informational purposes only and are not intended as, nor should it be considered a substitute for, professional medical or psychological advice. See: site Disclaimer and Notes
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Re: Who is disordered - subject or therapist

Postby AliceWonders » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:22 pm

This was an interesting poll, and an interesting view to see here by the 'speaker' who I presume is a patiant of Gunderson, or is it a collegue? If it were a clloegue, that could possibly change my given answer...

I went with the 'patiant should have 2 concurent therapists' as my answer though, because if this is indeed a patiant who is speaking of his/her forumer/current therapist, then I would say that I've been this same spot myself; wherein my own therapist was enducing these emotions inside me on purpose to provoke my reactions, by means of transference based therapy, and had I had 2 therapists at that point,I would have been able to talk through my hatred for the first with the second and probably stayed in therapy, or at least longer than I did.

So now, a question for you:
Do you know the real answer to this poll, and will you share with us after some time has passed?

Nice to have you back on the boards, hope you weekend was wonderful.
~Alice
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth~Oscar Wilde

Ideologies separate us. Dreams and anguish bring us together~Eugene Ionesco

Once you chose hope anything is possible~ Christopher Reeves
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Re: Who is disordered - subject or therapist

Postby goodbyenormajean » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:25 am

Eureka! I understand the point you've been trying to make about having two therapist! Wonder if it would work with two car mechanics!?
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Re: Who is disordered - subject or therapist

Postby SansStars » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:24 am

I don't know the given situation in its entirety, but is he doing this to all his patients and then ultimately dx'ing them as BPD? "Oh. Pt A responded this way.. Psshh.. Typical BPD. Let me just label you and then play some more." Or is he only doing it to those previously dx'd? That would alter my opinion on who is disordered in the situation.

I hope this isn't the reason you suggest two therapists, as Jean suggests. I'd hate to think this is such a predominant occurrence that everyone would be suggested to have a second resource, just in case.

Is there no limitations on who can practice psychology? He sounds Malignant Narcissist or AsPD to me (or something similar given my small knowledge base, I could be off). Is there no tests of mental health for the one supposing to be helping? Given the vulnerability of the pts coming into a therapist, I would hate to see them get manipulated in such a way.
Last edited by SansStars on Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who is disordered - subject or therapist

Postby goodbyenormajean » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:37 am

Oops! Sorry. No I don't think that is the only reason. I know it always good for a second opinion especially when it comes to health and wellness. It just seemed a good example of why one should have two to me!
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Re: Who is disordered - subject or therapist

Postby thisislabor » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:53 am

guy just sounds likes a prick to me. if he did it to me in IRL i would be tempted to beat his ass.

- Labor.
When the time comes there will not be enough people to bury the dead.
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Re: Who is disordered - subject or therapist

Postby realitycheque » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:13 pm

I think one more step is necessary to make a decision on the poll. The patient should calmly conclude the session with:

"We were unfortunately not able to form a Therapeutic Alliance today. Therefore, I cannot in good conscience compensate you for the session, but am willing to give you another chance. Same time next week?"

If the doctor again deploys "a barrage of unsettling and prying tactics designed to accuse, belittle, and shame the patient to the point of tears" in order to receive payment, he is the disordered one, as his pattern of behavior is consistent.
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Re: Who is disordered - subject or therapist

Postby AliceWonders » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:08 pm

realitycheque wrote:I think one more step is necessary to make a decision on the poll. The patient should calmly conclude the session with:

"We were unfortunately not able to form a Therapeutic Alliance today. Therefore, I cannot in good conscience compensate you for the session, but am willing to give you another chance. Same time next week?"

If the doctor again deploys "a barrage of unsettling and prying tactics designed to accuse, belittle, and shame the patient to the point of tears" in order to receive payment, he is the disordered one, as his pattern of behavior is consistent.



True! Is the good doctor's behaviour like this ONLY in therapy, or is he like this all around?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth~Oscar Wilde

Ideologies separate us. Dreams and anguish bring us together~Eugene Ionesco

Once you chose hope anything is possible~ Christopher Reeves
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Re: Who is disordered - subject or therapist

Postby EarlGreyDregs » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:26 pm

I think there should be a limit on who can practice therapy on others. Nothing too severe of a judgement, but at least to assess that the professional is going into the job for appropriate reasons and that their personality is stable and not... like that guy.

My first therapist was very horrible. She started out as a typical bad therapist. You know the kind, unhelpful advice that sounded like hogwash and looking bored and falling asleep. And when I decided to ask for a second opinion she turned into a b*tch and started screaming at me to leave her office. Yes, screaming at me to leave.

There needs to be better standards for therapists.
..
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Re: Who is disordered - subject or therapist

Postby tenderisthenight » Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:36 pm

People like this exist in all walks of life
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