What Would You Say to Alters Who Hate Their Physical Body?

I love as my own children a system of 17+ known people ranging from toddler to adult with 14 boys and 3 girls. Until last week, they all believed their physical body was that of a 14yo boy.

Now they realize their physical body is really that of a 38 year old woman and they HATE IT. They hate being "old", having female parts on top and below instead of male, having acne, having diabetes, brown eyes instead of blue.... they hate it all.

I've asked a few of them if anything would make them feel more comfortable in the body or better identify with it. I've suggested sports bras / chest binders, tattoos, new clothes, improving physical fitness. We've even touched on breast reduction surgery and methods of birth control that prevent menstruation.

I've stressed to them that they are exactly the same people they were before they realized their physical body was different than they thought. And that they shouldn't have to pretend to be "old" -- that no one was ever made happy by pretending to be someone they are not and they should keep being themselves.

This is on my short list of topics for the therapist today. I also want to ask you wonderful folks:
What would you say to them?

For us, we'd say: We sympathize!

Me and V2 are the ones who front most of the time lately and our body is like 3x older than either of us, looks nothing like either of us, and we completely ######6 hate it. lol. At least its female, most of our system are girls.

We don't have anyone in our system who 'fits' the body, in age or appearance, so its a struggle for every one of us.

I guess we do kinda automatically pretend to be older cos its like a hard habit to let go of, and sometimes like with work and stuff we gotta. But we don't really try to act like each other or whatever, we just do our own thing.

Tattoos and medical stuff, especially surgery, that's all pretty extreme and every last one in the system's gotta be in agreement before doing any permanent changes or stuff to the body. Its not gonna help if stuff is done to make one or some parts happy, that makes other parts unhappy.

We do let V2 get body piercings cos she's into it but we have some really strict rules and everything's gotta be ok'ed and stuff by everyone else. We do mess around with the hair colour cos its not permanent, but we don't even get the hair cut unless everyone agrees.

Getting in better physical shape is a really good idea, cos a healthy body is gonna feel younger regardless. We've been bad at maintaining that lately cos of so much stress going on, but if a system can team up and work together on that, it'll help every part feel better.

So yeah, it's a struggle. I guess you just get used to it. Or keep it dissociated enough that you don't notice too much. For most of us, as long as we're not looking at a mirror or looking down, they find it easier to forget that it doesn't look lke them?

Like when V2 is fronting she's said she easily forgets that people don't see a 16yo with spikey purple hair. Tho its always disappointing when she remembers what they really do see. For me its harder cos I'm not entirely human inside and when I'm fronting I'm way more aware of it, cos the outside body is missing bits that my real body has.

I also know when Mike fronts, he hates having a bra on. I think he can ignore the boobs easier without it, cos when there's a bra on he is too selfconsious about it, like more aware of it? He doesn't front much tho.

But yeah, bottom line is, we sympathize. But we don't think any permanent / serious changes should be done to the body, unless every single part is in agreement on it.

Viola

For us, parts that come out are mostly two teen boys (one of them do slide in age when he's out tho, so can also appear as young adult) and 11 year boy with DID, including his parts that are 11 at their oldest, youngest that I know is 3, and one 4 year old boy. Jules (the one with DID) is self destructive, but that's mostly in the inner world. If anyone says anything stupid about the outside body being his, self destruction turns against outside body. So we don't say him things like that, it won't benefit anything or anyone any way. We don't say it to those two others either. For us it's clear that outside body is mine. They loan it in order to be in contact with outside, but they don't even try to identify with it. I think it's fine. Actually that means we don't have to fight things concerning our looks. I wear clothes they like, but we are able to see things differently. For example Sami hates baggy clothes, and many of them like atm camouflage print, not army type clothes, but having that print somewhere. We bought sports tights that are camouflage print, they love them. They feel comfortable and there's the print they like. They don't think they are wearing women's pants, because they don't think it too much.

They all have very detailed image of themselves, they know how they look inside. They know they can't have their bodies out here, but they mostly keep their lives internal anyway. What would help them is have people who tell them they see them the way they really look like, not the outside body they need to use.

If he can draw his picture or has photos of someone who looks like him, even little bit and can tell the differences, that can help them believe you can see them. To be believed is important. In a way that may be feeding dissociation, but on the other hand, your goal is to keep them alive. If they're not ready to face the reality, they don't have to. Forcing it to them will only cause chaos and things we wanna prevent from happening.

There's a reason to that dissociation, and it's not safe to just rib it away. And different parts do think it differently. Like Jules gets so dysphoric his reaction is to hurt the body immediately. Sami doesn't think that's just dissociation in his case, he think it's beneficial they are not too involved with "my life", they help me with things I don't have or know how to do, but they don't even dream of living outside, because inside they can be exactly who they are. That has not changed with Sami, although we are getting really close. And I agree with him, he doesn't bring too much his stuff in here, and all others either, so we stay more consistent. Their feelings and hopes and what they are, do leak outside, that is why I sometimes wanna have things they do if they are close. But I'm not sure if THEY ever wanted them in here, or was it just leaking from them to me accidentally.

Could it help boys in the system in our friends case, that they don't have to identify with the body? If they can just have a break from it?

My body felt like an obstacle to younger parts before. I was bit overweight and in bad shape. They all are athletic. I remember when Jules tried to come outside, but he couldn't even sit the way he does, with good posture etc, because that position needs muscles and flexibility that I totally lacked. And my stomach felt like it gets on their way. But Lucas changed that. He started exercising with me there co-conscious, and stretching. Now they can move and stay still they way they do. 11 year old can run like a child, naturally, when he sees something interesting. They can sit the way they do. That really helped them to forget the body there, because they don't feel that all the time, they can forget it.

I agree with not making any permanent changes to the body, and also with getting into as good physical shape as possible. Also, moving and acting how you feel, rather than how you think you're supposed to move and behave (except for pushing the body to the point of injury, or in a situation where there's a defined role specifying how you're supposed to behave, like work, for example).

We make a list of what different people want to do, and try to spend time doing those activities. I've found that if we're doing something someone enjoys, they focus less on the fact that they're not happy with how the body looks.

As the others already said, dysphoria is extremely common and present in DID especially (even in all dissociative disorders). Permanent changes to the body may give a temporary relief, but the body will never feel right because it's not made to feel right. Alters are (very generally) different from the body because a refute of the body in which the mind is in might be present ("This body is ugly/dirty/corrupted, therefore I have to dissociate form it to survive", or along those lines). Sometimes it's just like it is.

But temporary stuff might always help. You can bend the body as similar as possible to the body of another alter if you are willing to try. It will never be perfect, but being as close as it can be is already a great feeling.

For example, our body is female. We all have dysphoria, but if we take Nico's example (he's the co-host, so he's one of the most active when it comes to modifying the body to feel comfortable in it), he's very tall, and very slender. He's underweight. The body is in very good shape, for the body of a 19yo girl. But to him it always seems and feels too fat. That is (also) why he doesn't like to eat at all, and used to starve the body just to try and make at least our thighs a bit smaller.

We compromised on that, and now we're on a diet that doesn't make him feel guilty or disgusted by eating (we eat less), but doesn't hurt the body. Also, in the past we always used binders, big clothes from the men's section (that cover til just under our hips), belts to make our hips smaller/squared, and tight pants to make our legs look more slender. We also found that leather jackets and coats in general, if taken from the men's section, make our shoulders look bigger. All these combined together (along with a very flexible haircut, and a neutral hair color), make him feel way more at home in the body.
We could never change our height to his (or to others'), but this is the best that we can do.

I really hope this helps somehow. Good luck with everything. We can see that you really care for their system.

Emi & Nico

I'd like to repeat what has been said before. Definitely don't do any permanent changes to the body. After all it's your friends body too. How is she going to react if she finds "she" has gone and shaved her head/had a tattoo/got a breast reduce? Sadly your boys do have to share.

For things like binders to work your boys will need to be able to tell when they are about to retreat so they can remove the binder before your friend comes back or your friend will need to be forewarned that the binder is something that is part of the boys grounding and she can take it off as soon as she is back. It is imperative that she doesn't feel as if the boys are trying to force their identity on her. But as Emi and Nico said it can be a great help. You just need to find a way of getting both systems to accept the use of them. (how gutted would the boys be if your friend threw out the binder because she didn't understand its importance.)

Rather than adapting the body adapt the wardrobe. Grace owns the majority of our wardrobe but we have been making a few adaptions. I wear corsets and weighted shoes because when I put them on it grounds me. They are my armor. Peter has t shirts in primary colours and shorts (in all weathers!) It is a lot easier for a woman to dress for her male alters than for a man to accommodate his female ones. You could treat the boys to a shopping day at top man (or equivalent manly store) get them a couple of outfits they agree on (again you don't want too many or your friend could feel that the boys are forcing themselves onto her - baby steps)

Have an ipod with their favorate music in named playlists. ask your friend if she wouldn't mind carrying it in her purse " just in case" that way if the boys pop out and find they are in clothing they are uncomfortable with they can use the music to remind them they are a valid part of the body too.

When the boys are round your house don't have any mirrors that they can walk past. I have noticed of late that peter (our only boy) is quite happy in this body until he walks past the mirror. Then the illusion that it is his body is shattered.

Exercise is a good one. It builds muscle tone, adds to flexibility and can sometimes cause natural reduced breast size (ie if your large breasts are due to being overweight.)

Short unpainted fingernails could help. How often do we look at our hands? They are probably the most visable part of the body.

Remind them that the body is the same one they have always had. Its not what you look like it is what you feel like. There are plenty of diabetic teenage boys out there with moobs (man boobs) your kids like those boys just need to get on a health kick.

From when I found I had male alters about ten years ago I've made it a sort of rule that everyone has to accept the physical body. Everyone does now except Peter - he feels like a muscular Chinese man in the body. He makes the body feel different. He's been in the body once this year. I'm not hung up about him hanging on to the image of himself probably because I've been getting used to this for ten years now.

But at first I was very big on it being important to accept this body and even if you are a man or younger that you get to like the body and realise you're a woman and this age. Because I felt they'd be happier accepting that. They are. Peter being the exception.

That doesn't mean that if they're a straight man they have sex with the bf though, there are limits. They all have their own limits of what they're happy doing in the body though. From whether they will wash dishes or not to whether they go to work - if they hate our current work. It's negotiation.

But accepting the body is important for life happiness.

The above is me on the inside, nothing like the body. You can't tell from the avatar, but my hair goes down the middle of my back.

As far as I know, I'm the only one in our system who has any sort of body dysmorphia. Everyone else, including our males, are able to separate how the body looks from how they look on the inside as individuals. And they're okay with it.

We grew up watching a lot of television, perhaps more than most people. And we/I felt shame that the body never looked as attractive as the people on TV and in the movies. Nobody ever wanted to date us, even as an adult. Of course, a big factor was the way we presented ourselves, body language and such. But the shame has always been there.

And ever since we realized we were multiple, I've wished that I could look on the outside as I look on the inside. I wanted to look like Shannen Doherty. We definitely don't, and we never will.

Acceptance is a difficult thing.

Thanks for posting this topic.

Charity

Not a lot to add at the moment, but I NEED to read this all again- so I wanted to comment to ensure I don't miss the thread or forget it...

There is a great deal of distress at times over the difference in physical body and the appearance the others (especially the girls) see themselves with inside. This topic is something I need to think about and figure out, for myself as well as in relation to them (and they need to come to terms with it, too)...

Thank you everybody for your awesome awesome thoughts. This community is fantastic.

The more time I spend in person with my kids the more I can see how the face physically changes slightly with each one. Facial muscles, expressions, voice, posture, language -- I'm getting better at guessing who's out.

My kids love art and received as a gift a beautiful set of drawing pencils, charcoals, etc and a high-quality drawing pad. I've asked them to draw for me what each person looks like inside and they were enthusiastic about doing this. I want to be able to picture them as they are on the inside when I'm talking to them and they clearly appreciate this.

I think a clothes shopping trip is a great idea too. Right now they only have "A's clothes" (A being host of friends' system) in "A's apartment, A's car, A's job" etc. They're not identifying with A's body or life as their own and that's okay. It's very very early in their realization of being in A's body -- acceptance will come on their own timetable for each of my kids.