Unintentional Imposters

Hi Pixie & Zor, sorry you're going through all this. It's really rough.

I agree with Floralie and Alice about the journal, that's totally a boundry violation. I hope there's some way to get her to understand that she can't just read that stuff.

I dunno if this is helpful at all but I have a few random thoughts come up after reading all this stuff...

I see a lot of referring to "Zor's wife" but she's really married to all of you, so you're all really married to her too. It's probably as difficult on some levels for some of you to accept that, as it is for her to accept some of you?

Like, it might be working at cross-purposes to say 'she married all of you' then think of her as only wife to one part and not the rest of you.

As far as acceptance after 5 or 6 months, it's been almost a year now since our DID crisis began. And it seems that our mum is just now, finally starting to accept it. Not just on a superficial level, but seems she's finally starting to listen and understand when we tell her some of how it's affecting us.

A big difference in our case (apart from dealing with a mother instead of a wife) is the person our mother knew, the main host person for so long, vanished when our crisis began. We were Stephanie for most of our life, and that's who our mother knew us as. I think she's been clinging to the belief that we were still Stephanie just 'confused' or 'mixed up'. Yesterday was the first time she seems to have realized she's not talking with Stephanie any more. Or, the first time she's admitted it to herself anyways.

So for our mum (and friends etc) it hasn't just been about accepting there's "other people inside", but they've also had to deal with the loss of the one person they thought they knew. Dunno if that made it easier or harder for them to accept the rest of it, but I tend to think easier, cos there's obvious blatant differences in 'me' compared to Stephanie.

I dunno if it would help or hurt, but maybe your wife needs to meet and interact with more of you being yourselves rather than pretending to be Zor? Maybe give Zor a day off or something and spend some time with the wife, so she can get to know you, to help her realize you are as real as Zor?

Good luck.

Violet

Something that came up from talking with my mum yesterday, that sorta fits in this topic... she mentioned two things,both sorta related.

She said sometimes she calls us and she feels like when we're talking, that we're really distant and don't really want to talk to her. And she said that it upsets her sometimes when like I'll call her and say something like "Oh we haven't talked in a week and I wanted to say hi" except she's like just called the day before.

In both these cases I don't think it's so much a case of someone fronting who doesn't know who they are, but more a case of the one fronting is just playing the 'role' of Violet cos that's the body name and stuff? Like, they know who they are but don't wanna rock the boat. Its easier just to be pretend Violet for a few minutes.

I did tell our mother that Melissa tends to just want to watch cartoons or whatever and doesn't have much to say. Didn't tell her Melissa is afraid of / distrusts grownups. And definitely didn't tell her Viola doesn't really like her lol. She doesn't need to know that stuff.

And I told her I was sorry she was upset that I don't remember stuff like this. She understands it's not intentional and stuff, but it still upsets her. Tho I'm not sure what the upsetting part is - that we have day-to-day amnesia, or that we forget interations with her specifically...

Anyways, the amnesia thing is something we hope will improve as we gradually work on better internal communication and stuff.

As for the 'being distant' or 'not wanting to talk'... now that I know she is noticing this stuff, and we've talked and told her that it's either me, Melissa, or Viola... I wonder if she'll actually ask who she's talking to. Or maybe even ask to speak to me in particular.

I don't know how the others would react to that but for me personally I wouldn't be offended or upset. TBH I'd see it as more a sign she's accepting and dealing with all this rather than ignoring it. I think I better talk with the others tho and get their feelings etc.

-Violet

VioletFlux wrote:Hi Pixie & Zor, sorry you're going through all this. It's really rough.

I agree with Floralie and Alice about the journal, that's totally a boundry violation. I hope there's some way to get her to understand that she can't just read that stuff.

I dunno if this is helpful at all but I have a few random thoughts come up after reading all this stuff...

I see a lot of referring to "Zor's wife" but she's really married to all of you, so you're all really married to her too. It's probably as difficult on some levels for some of you to accept that, as it is for her to accept some of you?

Like, it might be working at cross-purposes to say 'she married all of you' then think of her as only wife to one part and not the rest of you.

As far as acceptance after 5 or 6 months, it's been almost a year now since our DID crisis began. And it seems that our mum is just now, finally starting to accept it. Not just on a superficial level, but seems she's finally starting to listen and understand when we tell her some of how it's affecting us.

A big difference in our case (apart from dealing with a mother instead of a wife) is the person our mother knew, the main host person for so long, vanished when our crisis began. We were Stephanie for most of our life, and that's who our mother knew us as. I think she's been clinging to the belief that we were still Stephanie just 'confused' or 'mixed up'. Yesterday was the first time she seems to have realized she's not talking with Stephanie any more. Or, the first time she's admitted it to herself anyways.

So for our mum (and friends etc) it hasn't just been about accepting there's "other people inside", but they've also had to deal with the loss of the one person they thought they knew. Dunno if that made it easier or harder for them to accept the rest of it, but I tend to think easier, cos there's obvious blatant differences in 'me' compared to Stephanie.

I dunno if it would help or hurt, but maybe your wife needs to meet and interact with more of you being yourselves rather than pretending to be Zor? Maybe give Zor a day off or something and spend some time with the wife, so she can get to know you, to help her realize you are as real as Zor?

Good luck.

Violet

So I know like he'll wanna reply, too, but I'm here so I am gonna now and he can later when he sees this.

So we say "Zor's wife" cuz like he married her... not like we're not like as much a part of us, but like we were kinda younger then and some of us are girls (and not at all interested in girls ourselves), three of us are like married and fourth engaged with like others of us... also cuz like he was out for all that, it's HIS relationship. We totally understand it's like all of us, physically, but like Angel and I are married and I don't consider like Zor part of OUR relationship... so there's like a boundary there... but considering we're both like part of the whole of us... I get what you're saying and maybe being a little more like "hey, you didn't know we were here, he didn't either... but we were, are, and will be..." could help? IDK.

So like his mom is kinda nice about this and understanding, but says his dad is not at all yet... IDK- she even said she'd be like sending Kitten and I like stuff of our own, maybe like to wear even cuz like Zor's wife is so against it and he can't get us stuff of our own himself without like a fight and cuz he can't like get out on his own cuz of medical reasons. So that could be nice, to have other support outside of just him and these forums.

I have thought about talking to her, even said I wanna... but she's made it clear she has NO INTEREST in it, and would likely be angry and like chewing us out for it. Even today she said to him that like she doesn't wanna have this be like years and years cuz "we can't work on US with them still a problem for you"- as if we can just go away or we're a problem!? And like said that she believes "in my heart of hearts" that we're "manipulative" so we can "keep a tenuous hold on the real world they don't belong in". >:(

She totally doesn't understand like how we all exist together and that we're like ALL ONE PERSON, just in like diff and independent parts. I think I am gonna talk to the T again next week when we see him and like tell him this is scaring me (cuz it IS) and I am worried it'll like ruin that relationship- Zor and her- and see if he would like explain to her, from like a doctor professional like view, what it means for us to like exist, that we're like real, never going away entirely (even _IF_ we get integration) and like see if that helps...

She said today, too, that she'd stop reading our journal, but also that she doesn't know how else she can get to know us... but her like rejection of our right to exist and like crazy level hostility totally keeps me from talking to her. I kinda need to know she WANTS to talk to me like for knowing me, not like screaming at and like lecturing me about why I shouldn't exist or how I'm not real. :/

{\Pixie/}

I get she has a right to her feelings and stuff and that it's fair for her to feel deceived after finding out something so big after like 16 years cos that's a super long time, but it's been months now she should be getting over herself and trying to deal with the situation as it is. She is a grown arse woman who shouldn't be acting like a spoiled brat that and getting her nickers in a twist because life isn't turning out how she wants. Of course your gonna hide from her if she refuses to respect you. Your allowing your needs and wants to be suppressed on the outside to please her and so it doesn't come between her and Zor and that's not right if her relationship with Zor is damaged its because she damaged it by not accepting all of him and that includes you and the others.

Apparently I have to say sorry for being mean about her now and I didn't even say the really mean things I was thinking.

Hi Pixie,

Sorry if my earlier message came across as, I dunno, accusing or snide or something. I didn't mean for you to like have to explain things to me or whatever. I was just like trying to suggest other viewpoints or ideas for you all to consider.

Text is hard enough to convey emotional tone and stuff, and its doubly hard when I feel like half the time I forget my point beofre I finish typing so my message wanders off into babbling.

Zor wrote:She said today, too, that she'd stop reading our journal, but also that she doesn't know how else she can get to know us... but her like rejection of our right to exist and like crazy level hostility totally keeps me from talking to her. I kinda need to know she WANTS to talk to me like for knowing me, not like screaming at and like lecturing me about why I shouldn't exist or how I'm not real. :/

{\Pixie/}[/color]

Sorry I just clipped this bit out cos it's the bit that bothers me the most. We had a similar response from our sister... she stopped talking to us, basically cut us off without saying anything at all about it. Then when I asked her / confronted her, she claimed it's like we're a stranger to her now so she doesn't really know us. Like, you can't close the door and cover your ears and cut us out of your life, then turn around and accuse us of being like a stranger! It's BS.

And that's what I was reminded of, by that bit of your message. Like, Zor's wife wants to read the journal because she doesn't know how else to get to know you all? Why not just try talking? Or better still (for her) try listening?

Cos it sounds to me like she's doing a lot of deciding how she thinks / wants things to be, without really listening to what Zor is telling her.

It might be a really good idea for your T to speak with her. It might help for her to get some other perspectives.

I'm really sorry that you all are in this situation. It's a rough one.

Violet

NyxX wrote:I get she has a right to her feelings and stuff and that it's fair for her to feel deceived after finding out something so big after like 16 years cos that's a super long time, but it's been months now she should be getting over herself and trying to deal with the situation as it is. She is a grown arse woman who shouldn't be acting like a spoiled brat that and getting her nickers in a twist because life isn't turning out how she wants. Of course your gonna hide from her if she refuses to respect you. Your allowing your needs and wants to be suppressed on the outside to please her and so it doesn't come between her and Zor and that's not right if her relationship with Zor is damaged its because she damaged it by not accepting all of him and that includes you and the others.

Apparently I have to say sorry for being mean about her now and I didn't even say the really mean things I was thinking.

I totally get she feels like deceived or like lied to... but it wasn't like that. Like GangsAllHere said earlier, we didn't have a ton of option. If we like told Zor about us... BOOM! Life gets complicated and goes nuts. He had a military like job and career starting... He was in like a relationship he felt safe and happy in... and like if we told her any time at that point or after for that matter...

Sure the medical thingy that caused him to get out of the military happened, but that was just a month before they got married... there was stress from like us randomly blacking out - and when that happens it is like everything almost pauses for us, too... it's like a legit physical thingy that (as far as any of us know) has NOTHING to do with us or that we're all like here and exist this way.

So like that took forever to get any sort of "this is what it is" kinda thing- and when we DID get that, we found out years later it was wrong... it was like a few years after that was labeled narcolepsy and being put on like mad crazy mind-messing drugs (for real, Adderal (amphetamine) at 90mg a day (30gmx3/day) and max dose of Xyrem (GHB - date rape drug to knock girls out and screw with memory and the head) 2x at night. Those were going for a few years before we decided we wanted to get to know Zor more like personally- as US... so we got online... and then before I knew it, more than just Kitten and I were... everyone was starting to.
We got off those meds like 4 years into this... and most of us were online and well known to him and as his friend then.

How could we like suddenly say "Oh, btw, we're like part of Zor and like all one person"?! She'd so not understand, HE didn't know or understand... and then a few more got on later cuz we were, after the meds - but by then I had little to no ability to stop or control it anymore... ppl had like learned how to get out JUST ENOUGH to get online "INSIDE" which is the same internet as outside... and it was like a train wreck waiting to happen.

I so had no idea how to like get out of it at that point and tried a few times. So when it did come out, NO ONE expected it... and like it was a total shock...

Where was I going with this? Oh right, so like I so get why it's taking a few months to get like used to. It was late April they found out, May for a like "we THINK it's this", June an official "unspecified" diagnosis, and only like 10 weeks ago a legit DID diagnosis... so it's been like June for any real "this is what it is for sure" kinda stuff... but suspected since like May... and known about us since like April...

It's just a mess... and I get her shock and taking it hard... but the anger and like being personally offended isn't like helping us or Zor... and it's not helping HER either...

And you're right she is NOT listening to him - hearing, but not listening. He's said OVER AND OVER this will be YEARS to "work on", and that even IF (a big IF) we get integrated, one or all of us, it'll be us still here and part of him... it's not a "we go away" kinda deal. He's said this over and over, and she keeps talking like "when this is fixed" or "when it's just you", and like acting like it could be "maybe a year or two when there's less of them"... it WON'T happen, and not even that fast... so IDK... Maybe the doc can help us.

Honestly, I kinda hide from her cuz she is a little scary. Does a lot of like workout stuff, is super weight lifting strong, is a cop and trained for like stuff physically, and Zor is NOT any of that kinda stuff... and she's like very domineering Type A person (natural for being a cop), but like forceful and projecting and stuff- very scary when angry and all like "THIS IS IT!" and shuts down without like even considering what is said or offered in return... so, IDK. Until she's like gonna stop that, start like showing she WANTS to actually like TALK and have a relationship with me, with any of us, she WON'T. We WON'T put ourselves in a place to be yelled at, told we aren't like real, or shouldn't exist or something mean like that.

{\Pixie/}

So I want to add to Pixie's replies here- not going to quote b/c I'd wind up addressing everything specifically and this would get VERY VERY long... It's hard to keep short for me as it is.

So the thing is, Connie's a low-drama kind of person. A very "set in her ways" kind of person. This has created a TON of drama, complications in our otherwise simple life, and disrupted personal relationships with friends (ruined a few), and caused a rift between some friends and us- even causing us to leave our church (the ONLY Messianic Judaism-like (we're not ethnically Jewish, just following a more Jewish approach to Christian faith- hence "Messianic")) congregation, really, in our area).

Some of us (Kaleb and Katya primarly- who ARE Jewish ethnically, of the same Messianic faith- responsible for our friend Billy and I coming to this faith walk) were a bit critical of a friend, Billy actually, for some of his associations- he was a Free Mason, and he was willing to give up a core belief of his to be ordained... Two things those two couldn't understand and reconcile. When they spoke to others here, when asked about it, openly and negatively... It was taken as "manipulative" b/c we're all ONE whole, even though they are ENTIRELY independent of me.
I don't necessarily agree with their opinions even- in fact, the Mason thing I couldn't have cared less either way about- despite they felt strongly about it. The other matter, well I turned DOWN that group for that core tenet disagreement- but I never criticized HIM for accepting that position.

THAT hurt my wife a lot- she has known Billy since before we met- twice as long as she's known me or more. This sort of thing, and other communication with people we know outside, as she says "in the real world" and relationships formed with them while talking about their lives inside "as if they were real" (her words)...

Honestly, to me, it's clear she doesn't understand HOW they are part of me yet entirely independent, too. I think the doctor, to a degree doesn't either. He sometimes says, like of the clothing request thing, "well deep down you want..." or "you think..." because they are me... Well, they ARE, but they're not in that sense... so even HE isn't 100% understanding the uniqueness of each of us entirely (to be fair, we ARE his first exposure to this aside from Grad school- and he has been reading, studying, and learning a lot to try and help us).

The key difference is that he's not hurt and personally effected the way my wife is and was. So she's not letting the hurt go to see things more objectively and without emotional clouding. She's also, I think, in a bit of denial about how we all exist. I admit it's hard for me sometimes.
When I "come back" and find Pixie's put me in underarmor leggings (all she's got right now), or something else very "girlish" or absolutely female in design... it's weird. I am still trying to get used to this knowledge and accept it, learn to manage it and build mutually beneficial relationships with them...

This is immense and it's a struggle... but I AM concerned about her constant "time" comments and not seeing "us" (she and I) if this isn't "fixed". These are things I have no control over, and no hope to resolve the way she is talking. Sometimes I fear she's saying this over and over to later justify saying "you were told what I needed" if/when she decides to call it quits... that, honestly, scares me. I never even once considered there'd be anything but "til death do you part" for us, and hearing these comments and KNOWING what she is wanting can't happen... IDK... it's scary.

As for the journal and talking TO them... well NOT reading it is a start... it's a measure of respecting them and me... all of us... and I HOPE the rest will come with time... it's something I'm praying for a lot. But until she wants to see things more objectively, unemotionally, and open-minded to the rest of us/me... IDK what will happen, but it won't be what either of us want, much less what she says she is hoping for.

I'm not feeling very wordy tonight, but two things came to mind that I wanted to mention/suggest.

I had the idea that perhaps you could get/buy a special journal for all of you to use to communicate with Connie. I mean, her stated motivation for wanting to read the journal is to get to know all of you. Doing that in writing might be MUCH less threatening and scary than talking to someone who looks like Zor but is a different age and gender (for example). I don't know if you already use colored pens in your own journal, but if you did that in a journal with her, then she could get to know you a bit better, and then maybe meeting you in person would become easier. The idea would be that she would write there, too--actually have back-and-forth interactions and conversations via the journal.

The other thing was that I'm hoping that you TELL your therapist whenever he says one of those very unhelpful things like "you think" when it isn't the you who is talking right then. One of the very first things I said to my T when I was starting was that I wouldn't be able to talk to him AT ALL if he was going to assume that the feelings of other parts were also MY feelings. That defeats the whole purpose of getting to know all of those feelings that weren't/aren't tolerable as MINE.

TheGangsAllHere wrote:I'm not feeling very wordy tonight, but two things came to mind that I wanted to mention/suggest.

I had the idea that perhaps you could get/buy a special journal for all of you to use to communicate with Connie. I mean, her stated motivation for wanting to read the journal is to get to know all of you. Doing that in writing might be MUCH less threatening and scary than talking to someone who looks like Zor but is a different age and gender (for example). I don't know if you already use colored pens in your own journal, but if you did that in a journal with her, then she could get to know you a bit better, and then maybe meeting you in person would become easier. The idea would be that she would write there, too--actually have back-and-forth interactions and conversations via the journal.

The other thing was that I'm hoping that you TELL your therapist whenever he says one of those very unhelpful things like "you think" when it isn't the you who is talking right then. One of the very first things I said to my T when I was starting was that I wouldn't be able to talk to him AT ALL if he was going to assume that the feelings of other parts were also MY feelings. That defeats the whole purpose of getting to know all of those feelings that weren't/aren't tolerable as MINE.

The idea of a journal for them to write for her to read, for them to communicate is a great idea! Next time I'm in town I will have to get a set of colored pens (also a good idea) and a second notebook for that purpose, thanks!

As for the doctor's comments, it's generally when I am conveying things that Pixie has written in the journal for me- like wanting things or clothes of their own to feel comfortable in when out... He said "well you want those things, really..." trying to assert that she's part of me. I get what he means, but I think he's attributing them all to pieces of me, rather than us all being part of a single whole together...
I do try and note that THEY have independent thoughts, desires and feelings- and it's something I will continue to press him about- b/c I couldn't care less about some of these things myself. I get what he is trying to say and where he's coming from, but I think it's a little overreaching to assume they are pieces of me to a lesser degree themselves...

It's a work in progress, and I'm his first experience with DID... He has done well to learn and back off the hardline stance he started with, so I am hopeful that he'll continue to learn, change, and adapt to our situation and condition as it is- not as it's expected to be.

Thanks for the input and the wonderful notebook idea!

TheGangsAllHere wrote:I'm not feeling very wordy tonight, but two things came to mind that I wanted to mention/suggest.

I had the idea that perhaps you could get/buy a special journal for all of you to use to communicate with Connie. I mean, her stated motivation for wanting to read the journal is to get to know all of you. Doing that in writing might be MUCH less threatening and scary than talking to someone who looks like Zor but is a different age and gender (for example). I don't know if you already use colored pens in your own journal, but if you did that in a journal with her, then she could get to know you a bit better, and then maybe meeting you in person would become easier. The idea would be that she would write there, too--actually have back-and-forth interactions and conversations via the journal.

Gonna like reply in parts here- so like this is a great idea IF she is like willing to talk to us respectfully, not be like "you don't have any right to exist", "you have no right to be in 'the real world'" and that kinda stuff... But, like Zor, I like this idea. It'll maybe open a door that's been like sooooo seriously sealed shut on us these last several months. I am sooooo gonna look into doing this. It can't hurt to like try, right?

TheGangsAllHere wrote:The other thing was that I'm hoping that you TELL your therapist whenever he says one of those very unhelpful things like "you think" when it isn't the you who is talking right then. One of the very first things I said to my T when I was starting was that I wouldn't be able to talk to him AT ALL if he was going to assume that the feelings of other parts were also MY feelings. That defeats the whole purpose of getting to know all of those feelings that weren't/aren't tolerable as MINE.

so like that totally bugs me, too... cuz like when the T says stuff like that to Zor, like when he told him that we wanted some clothes and stuff of our own for like when we're out... he was like "so you want... " and Zor was like not really, cuz like they are asking.. and he's almost insistent at times that cuz WE think or want something, than Zor does or has to cuz we're him... :/
It's a lot more like complicated than that, and we're so NOT the same person- even if we're like connected and part of like a single whole together. So that's something like to work on with him... But, I do have to admit, he IS trying and he has like opened up about us like being real and stuff more than I would have thought he would from like our first meeting or two... and even to like agreeing to talk to me, so that's like huge and a good step forward. Just got more steps to make before it's like an entirely good thing.

{\Pixie/}