Outside friendships; how to do that?:)

Una+ wrote: You may choose to welcome or even invite intense disclosures by other people, but that does not mean other people should equally welcome your intense disclosures to them.

How do you mean things like this? Just like the 'friends are not therapists' or the example of the selfabsorbed system, I have the feeling you're projecting this on me/us? It feels obvious to us to not think that others would be obligated or something to hear us out, or that friends should be therapists, or that it should be all about us.

That's so different than longing for contact without having to watch every single word that comes out of your mouth, face expressions, having to fill gaps because of amnesia you have to hide, etc; hiding who you áre. We have zero contacts like that. And like we said in the openingpost; we dón't want to be too much, knowing very well we would be that when opening up about 'everything'.

A lot of what Una said

The thing about sharing / burden / my friend who I disengaged from ... it wasn’t mutual. She expected me to always be there for her , was intensely negative a lot and angry if /when I set any limits. Her expectations were not healthy . She was highly emotional a lot / no balance . There was little space for me to share .
I think the key is a give and take and to go slowly .

Yes-I doubt myself -I’m not even always aware of it so appreciate your pointing it out . Thankyou !

LadySlippers wrote:A lot of what Una said

The thing about sharing / burden / my friend who I disengaged from ... it wasn’t mutual. She expected me to always be there for her , was intensely negative a lot and angry if /when I set any limits. Her expectations were not healthy . She was highly emotional a lot / no balance . There was little space for me to share .
I think the key is a give and take and to go slowly .

Yes-I doubt myself -I’m not even always aware of it so appreciate your pointing it out . Thankyou !

Yeah, give and take. Good thing you took your distance there. Sounds exhausting, sad for her, but exhausting and in this case; you're not her therapist:))

Going slowly is something some of us have to keep in mind; thank you for that one and you're welcome!

Efragment wrote:How do you mean things like this?

For the most part I am writing for all readers of this thread, not you personally. Also, I am speaking from my own experience and education.

I am not addressing you personally because from your posts I don't get any clear picture of you or what your concerns are, other than you want to feel and be both more authentic and more open with other people. For me, authentic and open are qualities that are largely unrelated; could it be that you are conflating them?

When I originally answered I was only thinking of my relationships with others as they currently stand but now I'm thinking of it in a different way. I'm thinking of it now as how do you find friends who will accept you and your parts?

First don't share to much to soon. Some people will be frightened of the big bad scary mental illness and distance themselves from you some people will think your vunrable and try to exploit you and others will be fine with it. But when you don't know someone well you don't know well you don't know what kind of response they will have. I'm not saying to lie or hide who you are just not to explain it unless you need to. Like in the keeping consistency on the outside thread the consensus seems to be people don't really notice or find themselves a plausible explanation for any inconsistency.

Next be all of the you that you feel happy and safe enough to be. Both my SO and my friend I met before I was self aware enough to realise what the different senses of self I felt meant so I didn't try to hide it. And they both accepted the way I am without needing an explanation.

Acceptance is really important both yours and any potential friends. accept that not everyone will be willing or able to accept your inconsistencies or all your parts and that's ok. If you have someone in your system who can give you strength to accept that rely on them to help you, Z does that for us. Also if you want someone to be able to accept you, you need to be able accept them and its also ok when you can't.

The people that seem to have strong happy external relationships with outside people that they can share there different parts with seem to have consensus among there parts that they like this person. I get that might be hard in a larger system but still try to work towards it maybe work by committee so pick some parts that the others respect the judgment of and make sure they agree or give all your parts votes or whetever works for you.

Probably in some ways not a good person to respond because my parts don’t seem to come out with other people. At least as far as “ I “ know.
So for me/ us it’s more about sharing what’s going on inside and if we need support or big conflict happening .
But as far as parts talking .... nope / don’t think so .
That would add a whole new element to the friendship issue .

I have shared things they’ve said or some things about them though

Una+ wrote:For the most part I am writing for all readers of this thread, not you personally.

That explains it; thanks!

Una+ wrote:For me, authentic and open are qualities that are largely unrelated; could it be that you are conflating them?

Thought about that while buying dinner just now. I don't think I conflate them (but thought about it a lot, maybe we're going to find out we actually have no clue:)), I do think you and us think different about friendship, and that's ok.

NyxX wrote:When I originally answered I was only thinking of my relationships with others as they currently stand but now I'm thinking of it in a different way. I'm thinking of it now as how do you find friends who will accept you and your parts?

First don't share to much to soon. Some people will be frightened of the big bad scary mental illness and distance themselves from you some people will think your vunrable and try to exploit you and others will be fine with it. But when you don't know someone well you don't know well you don't know what kind of response they will have. I'm not saying to lie or hide who you are just not to explain it unless you need to. Like in the keeping consistency on the outside thread the consensus seems to be people don't really notice or find themselves a plausible explanation for any inconsistency.

Next be all of the you that you feel happy and safe enough to be. Both my SO and my friend I met before I was self aware enough to realise what the different senses of self I felt meant so I didn't try to hide it. And they both accepted the way I am without needing an explanation.

Acceptance is really important both yours and any potential friends. accept that not everyone will be willing or able to accept your inconsistencies or all your parts and that's ok. If you have someone in your system who can give you strength to accept that rely on them to help you, Z does that for us. Also if you want someone to be able to accept you, you need to be able accept them and its also ok when you can't.

Your sentence about someone in the system who can give strength resonated bigtime with Bart; thank you!! This really feels big, because he acted on anger a lot, and this 'job' can be positive. We were searching for exactly that:)

The rest of what you say as well; thank you; read you a few times for everybody here; this truelly helps.

NyxX wrote:The people that seem to have strong happy external relationships with outside people that they can share there different parts with seem to have consensus among there parts that they like this person. I get that might be hard in a larger system but still try to work towards it maybe work by committee so pick some parts that the others respect the judgment of and make sure they agree or give all your parts votes or whetever works for you.

Exactly, democracy but not with the whole bunch. The adults checking with their team and then with each other, I think. Including the informed caretakers inside (Claire just told me to write that down, haha). Something like that. We can do that. Thanks again, NyxX

LadySlippers wrote:Probably in some ways not a good person to respond because my parts don’t seem to come out with other people. At least as far as “ I “ know.
So for me/ us it’s more about sharing what’s going on inside and if we need support or big conflict happening .
But as far as parts talking .... nope / don’t think so .
That would add a whole new element to the friendship issue .

I have shared things they’ve said or some things about them though

Yeah, we have that going on. Always have and we now understand it. The biggest thing is that younger and emotional parts front when the host at that time feels scared or intimidated. We really need to work on that. Frustrating/embarrassing for the adults (imagine that happening at work while you're actually a manager, for example. It's a miracle we did that for two years. We quit because of the crisis) and entirely unfair/way too much pressure for the young ones.

Sharing things abóut it while being calm inside; goal:)

Thanks! You might find out you actually do switch, but a lot of switching goes unnoticed, like NyxX also said. Singletons have different moods where we have different parts. And a system works really hard on not making anyone suspicious, so parts act like each other a lot as well.

I think it’s true that I may switch without “ me” knowing. It can be confusing for sure.

Recently a neighbor asked me my cats name . I didn’t know. And I knew “ I” should know so I just threw out a name.
The next week she asked me about my cat by that name and I saw “ oh no, the cats name is xyz “ . Lol . She didn’t know what to say .
So maybe someone else was there in front and I heard conversation? Don’t quite understand.

This is just a thought. Aleksi was very good with friends. He made friends very effortlessly all the time. And I was trying to think how did he do it. Because we can't anymore. There are some specific reasons why, but I won't go there now. And Aleksi had those same issues also, just without realizing, but he still managed to be friends with many people.

Efragment, have you been better with it before? Is it a recent problem, or something you've always struggled with?

Because I was thinking Aleksi was who he was, and really didn't hide so much at all. Mostly he didn't even realize there was something to hide. So people sometimes commented that, the symptoms, like the way he could totally go off-line sometimes, just staring nowhere, and then suddenly wake back to the situation. And people commented that and he probably just said yeah, it happens sometimes. Or if he suddenly didn't know what others were talking about, he just asked. And when others thought it was kind of funny he could totally be so out sometimes, he said yeah, that happens also.

And after getting diagnose and starting to know parts better, Nooa who used to act like he was Aleksi as a cover up, started to be more like himself. He let parts to come out, just didn't tell who they were, but they didn't need to act to be someone else so much anymore. So people noticed him being sometimes someone else. What if you would do it just like that. And when someone comments on it, you can just admit, either the whole thing or some simple version.

I mean.. there are more ways, than either tell all the sudden big thing like that, or completely hide it. I think it's wiser to just live. And maybe tell if asked. But you don't need to tell before others have already seen it, and it doesn't come as a big surprise, and when you will tell, they already know what it means with you. They are just getting an explanation.

So what if you just let yourself and your parts be who you are, but no names or details at first, just acting like they are. And of course littles and very traumatized parts are different case.. but the ANPs.. couldn't they just be there for a friend to see, so they get used to that.

You can just tell you have traumatic background, and those are the symptoms of it still affecting. And from reactions you can see who are the ones you can share the whole thing, give a name to your condition and maybe actually tell details about parts. Or then just don't do that at all. It is enough to be who you are and explain it is a trauma symptom you have memory issues.

We have realized that if you are honest and who you are and not judgmental, and you share some hardship by just mentioning it, telling a fact about your past, there are so many people out there who have or have had, or know someone close to them who had some hard times also, and they are not so normal and happy and ignorant about bad stuff at all, than you (and now I don't mean you Efragment personally, but anyone) would easily think. Just think how many people there are having medication for some mental issue for example. They may have not experienced as severe stuff than we have, but it doesn't mean life has been just roses and butterflies to them either. We've learned that people share, when we share. And we wont share all, just one sentence about something.

I think when you come out slowly, you can tell yourself who are the ones who will understand a lot, and who wont, and keep your distance as long as it feels natural.

Hi PlanetIcarus, thank you!

PlanetIcarus wrote:This is just a thought. Aleksi was very good with friends. He made friends very effortlessly all the time. And I was trying to think how did he do it. Because we can't anymore. There are some specific reasons why, but I won't go there now. And Aleksi had those same issues also, just without realizing, but he still managed to be friends with many people.

Efragment, have you been better with it before? Is it a recent problem, or something you've always struggled with?

It's a recent problem! Turns out I had a co-host who was/is an introject, almost always. We just identified him. Wrote about it in my topic, won't bother this topic with it, but it explains so much. It's not me but him, who's been inactive since the beginning of this crisis, and while I was figuring out who the %^$% I am (without all his traits that dominated me a lot), I think young ER's had the feeling they had to take care of this 'friendship thing' now (very sorry about that, ER's!). I had the same issues as Aleksi; he can take distance from that. He has a CHOICE.

PlanetIcarus wrote:Because I was thinking Aleksi was who he was, and really didn't hide so much at all. Mostly he didn't even realize there was something to hide. So people sometimes commented that, the symptoms, like the way he could totally go off-line sometimes, just staring nowhere, and then suddenly wake back to the situation. And people commented that and he probably just said yeah, it happens sometimes. Or if he suddenly didn't know what others were talking about, he just asked. And when others thought it was kind of funny he could totally be so out sometimes, he said yeah, that happens also.

Same here:) Plus me getting upset sometimes, out of proportions.

PlanetIcarus wrote:And after getting diagnose and starting to know parts better, Nooa who used to act like he was Aleksi as a cover up, started to be more like himself. He let parts to come out, just didn't tell who they were, but they didn't need to act to be someone else so much anymore. So people noticed him being sometimes someone else. What if you would do it just like that. And when someone comments on it, you can just admit, either the whole thing or some simple version.

Exactly; that's what's happening here as well. And that frightened young parts who don't know how to deal with it all. They can relax again now I can host again, but more as me.
Bart is so happy he doesn't have to act as a woman anymore. ER doesn't have to be 'fierce' anymore. Neither do I, although I feel strong. And, yes, that's perfectly fine! The three of us won't scare people with that. Honestly; things fell into place with identifying that introject.

PlanetIcarus wrote:I mean.. there are more ways, than either tell all the sudden big thing like that, or completely hide it. I think it's wiser to just live. And maybe tell if asked. But you don't need to tell before others have already seen it, and it doesn't come as a big surprise, and when you will tell, they already know what it means with you. They are just getting an explanation.

So what if you just let yourself and your parts be who you are, but no names or details at first, just acting like they are. And of course littles and very traumatized parts are different case.. but the ANPs.. couldn't they just be there for a friend to see, so they get used to that.

You can just tell you have traumatic background, and those are the symptoms of it still affecting. And from reactions you can see who are the ones you can share the whole thing, give a name to your condition and maybe actually tell details about parts. Or then just don't do that at all. It is enough to be who you are and explain it is a trauma symptom you have memory issues.

We have realized that if you are honest and who you are and not judgmental, and you share some hardship by just mentioning it, telling a fact about your past, there are so many people out there who have or have had, or know someone close to them who had some hard times also, and they are not so normal and happy and ignorant about bad stuff at all, than you (and now I don't mean you Efragment personally, but anyone) would easily think. Just think how many people there are having medication for some mental issue for example. They may have not experienced as severe stuff than we have, but it doesn't mean life has been just roses and butterflies to them either. We've learned that people share, when we share. And we wont share all, just one sentence about something.

I think when you come out slowly, you can tell yourself who are the ones who will understand a lot, and who wont, and keep your distance as long as it feels natural.

Great advice, PlanetIcarus; thanks again and I agree and this we can do (now)!

-- May 27th, '18, 13:32 --

LadySlippers wrote:I think it’s true that I may switch without “ me” knowing. It can be confusing for sure.

Recently a neighbor asked me my cats name . I didn’t know. And I knew “ I” should know so I just threw out a name.
The next week she asked me about my cat by that name and I saw “ oh no, the cats name is xyz “ . Lol . She didn’t know what to say .
So maybe someone else was there in front and I heard conversation? Don’t quite understand.

Co-presence! It's great that you didn't black out; it was a switch but you were still present.