Thread for EP's?

Fellow survivors,

Been thinking about this a lot. PlanatIcarus also mentioned this when talking about traumatized littles who also want to be able to be themselves without causing discomfort and while being safe.

Here's the thing; first thing you learn when becoming aware of this condition; accept, hear, and even thank ALL parts. EP's and 'bad introjects' are just as much 'part' as any other. You can't heal when you don't accept them.

I DISAGREE with a lot of T's on this one, ánd with the dependancy we all feel; don't go there without a T. Why not? I'm not talking 'being punished with flashbacks etc' here, I'm talking; give them just as much freedom of speech and start integrating and healing! Babysteps, elephantsteps; whatever you need.

I truelly believe that we can trust ourselves more than we all do. We know what we can or can not handle.

I have quite a few EP's who calm down immediatly after expressing their feelings; no details of abuse, no details of the damage even, but just their often very intense féélings. We all have those raw, intense, broken feelings and we rarely express them. I think this is a big universal mistake in the treatment of DID. Maybe even the biggest. I've been accepting a lot of hard feelings, and I feel myself getting stronger, more 'full'/complete, when I do. And maybe I'm not the only one who feels the need to involve those parts.

What do you think?

I like the idea, but.... I've written stuff on my blog here that the mods wouldn't allow through. EP's are too offensive.

Hi Efragment,

V1 and me definitely agree with you about being welcoming and accepting of all our parts. V1 has gone out of her way to be warm and caring even towards persecuters who were actively trying to hurt her (or get her to hurt herself).

Our littles, our abuse-holding parts, everyone is welcome. We might cringe sometimes at some of their actions (eg. our protector sending unkind emails to our best friend) but we have never tried to stop them, block them, or push them away.

When V1 was getting good at doing grounding to make flashbacks stop, she started to feel bad that she was 'treating the symptom' and ignoring the cause, i.e. just silence the flashback without addressing the traumatized part. So she figured out how to address the needs of those other parts, and did it without having to confront the trauma or memories.

The only bit of your post that I don't entirely understand is what exactly you are disagreeing with. What are therapists doing that you think is wrong? Sorry maybe it's early in the day and my head isn't up to full speed yet lol, but I'm not clear on what you disagree wth.

But 100% agree with you, all parts are valid and valued. OTOH I don't know that any of our EPs would post here. Melissa is the only one who's shown interest (in the Littles thread), and even that is sporadic at best.

V2

myce wrote:I like the idea, but.... I've written stuff on my blog here that the mods wouldn't allow through. EP's are too offensive.

And that's what happens 'everywhere' while those parts need attention, comfort, or even just being able to get that $%^#$% off their chest. And not being 'alone' when doing that.. I call that healing:)

Maybe we can make an agreement with the mods; just that one thread, with a whole lot of "TW'', because of this condition we are also 'allowed' to use different colors in our posts, other's on this website aren't if I've read that correctly.

VioletFlux wrote:Hi Efragment,

V1 and me definitely agree with you about being welcoming and accepting of all our parts. V1 has gone out of her way to be warm and caring even towards persecuters who were actively trying to hurt her (or get her to hurt herself).

Our littles, our abuse-holding parts, everyone is welcome. We might cringe sometimes at some of their actions (eg. our protector sending unkind emails to our best friend) but we have never tried to stop them, block them, or push them away.

Hi V2 (and V1:)), that's really a very important part I think V1 is handling very well. I have the most problems with welcoming young parts, but I feel so much difference when I do.

VioletFlux wrote:When V1 was getting good at doing grounding to make flashbacks stop, she started to feel bad that she was 'treating the symptom' and ignoring the cause, i.e. just silence the flashback without addressing the traumatized part. So she figured out how to address the needs of those other parts, and did it without having to confront the trauma or memories.

Great. May I ask how? Found out here that it helps when I thank the part who shoots flashbacks at me (without even knowing which part it is, mostly) for telling me and that we'll absolutely will deal with it when we're strong enough.

VioletFlux wrote:The only bit of your post that I don't entirely understand is what exactly you are disagreeing with. What are therapists doing that you think is wrong? Sorry maybe it's early in the day and my head isn't up to full speed yet lol, but I'm not clear on what you disagree wth.

But 100% agree with you, all parts are valid and valued. OTOH I don't know that any of our EPs would post here. Melissa is the only one who's shown interest (in the Littles thread), and even that is sporadic at best.

V2

Please don't doubt yourself, we're a bit restless these days.., think I'm the one not being clear enough. Maybe I've just had very bad experiences with very bad T's:), but when 'the rawness' surfaced, the T would immediatly try to supress that, treating it the same as when talking about trauma, and telling me that I'm 'not ready'. In my country, this seems to be somewhat of a problem in regular mental health care, sometimes even because of the discomfort the T feels because of the intensity. T's here think very differently about the proper approach. On one hand they get stuck in 'stabalizing' and never adress 'the intensity', not because the client wouldn't be able to handle it, but because the T's are actually too 'careful'. On the other hand there are T's who focus on trauma only, and too soon. There's just one organisation, a very new one that's building new clinics, that adresses this very subject, which I think is very important.

And yes, I've also been wondering if it would even happen; EP's spilling their guts 'outside'. How about we try, they maybe never had the option to talk 'independently' (like in conversation with a good friend, they'll, sooner or later, join, but this ofcourse is different). My littles also hardly ever come out, but!, some do; babysteps. Who know's what that situation will be like in a year from now, for example.

I certainly understand why it is helpful for EPs to express themselves, but personally I would rather let them vent on paper - so that it remains private. That is of course a personal decision, based on the need/want to protect us from having all kinds of information on the internet AND from potentially being exposed to trolls. Why would you like to have a thread for this? What type of responses would you like to get?

I don't think EP's interacting with EP's would end very well, but that might also be just me. Wouldn't you just trigger each other?

When I want to feel understood and/or triggered, I tend to read books about trauma. It's usually not a very wise decision to read those books, because it heightens my arousal and destructive urges and negative thoughts... I think I would have the same response to reading EP stories on here. I relate to wanting to feel understood and being able to express yourself fully though. I don't do it around friends either, just therapists, because they are trained in self-care...

So, I don't know. Maybe it can be a good thing, maybe not. But personally, I don't think I would engage with the thread if it would exist... (Just my thoughts).

Hi fireheart, thank you for sharing your thoughts.

fireheart wrote:I certainly understand why it is helpful for EPs to express themselves, but personally I would rather let them vent on paper - so that it remains private. That is of course a personal decision, based on the need/want to protect us from having all kinds of information on the internet AND from potentially being exposed to trolls. Why would you like to have a thread for this? What type of responses would you like to get?

I think it's not about getting responses, but about seeing you're not the only one in this entire world who can feel this way, sharing, not judging each other, knowing it's understándable to feel that way. And yes, I've also thought about being 'predator prey', and I think clear rules are needed (what will also help the systems who join to work together better, internally, if the EP's manage to follow those rules but on the other hand can express themselves). Maybe not all systems have quite 'developped' EP's? Some of mine almost act and feel like ANP's sometimes. They don't feel like the 'one trick pony fragments' I also have.

fireheart wrote:I don't think EP's interacting with EP's would end very well, but that might also be just me. Wouldn't you just trigger each other?

When I want to feel understood and/or triggered, I tend to read books about trauma. It's usually not a very wise decision to read those books, because it heightens my arousal and destructive urges and negative thoughts... I think I would have the same response to reading EP stories on here. I relate to wanting to feel understood and being able to express yourself fully though. I don't do it around friends either, just therapists, because they are trained in self-care...

So, I don't know. Maybe it can be a good thing, maybe not. But personally, I don't think I would engage with the thread if it would exist... (Just my thoughts).

Triggering each other might be a very legitimate concern, yes. But I think there's just as much 'responsibility' there as when you watch a triggering movie or read books, etc.

Thanks for clarifying, Efragment!

Efragment wrote:Triggering each other might be a very legitimate concern, yes. But I think there's just as much 'responsibility' there as when you watch a triggering movie or read books, etc.

Agree, the only difference that comes to mind is that you're also putting information out there that may be triggering to others. I suppose it would be their responsibility to engage or not.

Efragment wrote:Hi V2 (and V1:)), that's really a very important part I think V1 is handling very well. I have the most problems with welcoming young parts, but I feel so much difference when I do.

Actually V1 is good at greeting and having warm and positive thoughts towards all the parts, but when it comes to really letting them contact her or front, she is still uneasy. Especially with littles.

I sometimes wonder if one of my roles is to be like ambassador to them or something lol. Or like, Melissa is the 'spokesperson' for the littles, maybe I'm the 'spokesperson' for the bigs haha.

It's not that V1 doesn't like them, but its another thing she gets anxiety about - that we'll act 'silly' or 'childish' or 'wierd' and she'll get all embarassed or people will think we're crazy or whatever. I mean, maybe people will think that, but who cares lol.

So she's got good intentions but in some cases she's unable to fully follow-through, so that's where I take over, hehe.

Efragment wrote:Great. May I ask how? Found out here that it helps when I thank the part who shoots flashbacks at me (without even knowing which part it is, mostly) for telling me and that we'll absolutely will deal with it when we're strong enough.

This post in our journey thread details her discovery / realization of how to help:
dissociative-identity/topic205203.html#p2133847
TL;DR = she asked our internal helper/observer part to get someone from inside to find and take care of the little who was the source of an ongoing flashback. Rather than worry about doing it all herself, she delegated it to the inside, trusted the system, and it worked.

Thanks for explaining about the therapists. Yeah I would not like that either. We're sorta lucky so far with our T, she's been pretty good and very open and accepting, of having others show up at session. It hasn't happened often, but three EPs have turned up so far. Rebecca made a brief visit, Mike went once to basically intimidate her a little, and Melissa came out once. Our T just accepted it all and talked to them, didn't try pushing them away, and didn't argue or dismiss their issues.

V2

Efragment wrote:I DISAGREE with a lot of T's on this one, ánd with the dependancy we all feel; don't go there without a T. Why not? I'm not talking 'being punished with flashbacks etc' here, I'm talking; give them just as much freedom of speech and start integrating and healing! Babysteps, elephantsteps; whatever you need.

I truelly believe that we can trust ourselves more than we all do. We know what we can or can not handle.

I have quite a few EP's who calm down immediatly after expressing their feelings; no details of abuse, no details of the damage even, but just their often very intense féélings. We all have those raw, intense, broken feelings and we rarely express them. I think this is a big universal mistake in the treatment of DID. Maybe even the biggest. I've been accepting a lot of hard feelings, and I feel myself getting stronger, more 'full'/complete, when I do. And maybe I'm not the only one who feels the need to involve those parts.

What do you think?

I agree and disagree, like I told elsewhere, we did not know what we could handle. But it was new stuff, you can't know if you can handle a thing you don't know what it even is. And now we know we do not want to know anything new. It'll make us worse, we haven't solve the existing problems and don't want new ones to build up to be an overwhelming pile of stuff telling how filthy we are.

BUT the ones that are already here, I think it creates deeper trauma for them and creates more dissociation between us to try to silence them. And it makes things worse, and that I can feel, their guilt about being so bad no-one wants even hear them talking, so I DO know they need that and I need them to get to tell someone. I know what they hold as a subject, so it's not anything new.

On our previous forum there was one woman who said she believes it is wrong to talk thru alters to the alters of someone underaged. And that is why her parts never talked to mine. I do not believe it was the reason, she did that ugly ways, locking herself and other's alters up to a safety house and leaving my 4 yo standing outside alone, not anything ethical in there like she claimed. But it was also the most stupid thing we've ever heard. Like abandoning my littles would be ethical, while they see others are getting help, but no one answers to them when they try to speak. I got so mad I zoned out and was breaking windows in my head. I hardly ever get mad. But it was so unfair. No wonder why my 4 yo broke there.

And HE said he's sorry, he's sad he hurt those girls somehow and he left and promised he won't come back, so the girls can be save from him. Now he is turning into sand in a desert because of that guilt about hurting girls, which he even didn't do. But she still refuses to forgive him. For ethical reasons you know, not talking to the parts of someone's underaged.

She said it is because her littles do have an adult's support (herself) and mine doesn't and that's why they can broke easily, and she doesn't wanna take the risk. BUT SHE SAID THAT AFTER SHE ALREADY BROKE ONE WITH SILENCE TREATMENT! And after that she decided to do that to ALL of them. Like it was our fault we are not an adult.

Sorry, this went off-topic, but I needed to vent when I remembered.

What a s***h**d. We all hate her and her ethical decisions.

PlanetIcarus wrote:
I agree and disagree, like I told elsewhere, we did not know what we could handle. But it was new stuff, you can't know if you can handle a thing you don't know what it even is. And now we know we do not want to know anything new. It'll make us worse, we haven't solve the existing problems and don't want new ones to build up to be an overwhelming pile of stuff telling how filthy we are.

BUT the ones that are already here, I think it creates deeper trauma for them and creates more dissociation between us to try to silence them. And it makes things worse, and that I can feel, their guilt about being so bad no-one wants even hear them talking, so I DO know they need that and I need them to get to tell someone. I know what they hold as a subject, so it's not anything new.

On our previous forum there was one woman who said she believes it is wrong to talk thru alters to the alters of someone underaged. And that is why her parts never talked to mine. I do not believe it was the reason, she did that ugly ways, locking herself and other's alters up to a safety house and leaving my 4 yo standing outside alone, not anything ethical in there like she claimed. But it was also the most stupid thing we've ever heard. Like abandoning my littles would be ethical, while they see others are getting help, but no one answers to them when they try to speak. I got so mad I zoned out and was breaking windows in my head. I hardly ever get mad. But it was so unfair. No wonder why my 4 yo broke there.

And HE said he's sorry, he's sad he hurt those girls somehow and he left and promised he won't come back, so the girls can be save from him. Now he is turning into sand in a desert because of that guilt about hurting girls, which he even didn't do. But she still refuses to forgive him. For ethical reasons you know, not talking to the parts of someone's underaged.

She said it is because her littles do have an adult's support (herself) and mine doesn't and that's why they can broke easily, and she doesn't wanna take the risk. BUT SHE SAID THAT AFTER SHE ALREADY BROKE ONE WITH SILENCE TREATMENT! And after that she decided to do that to ALL of them. Like it was our fault we are not an adult.

Sorry, this went off-topic, but I needed to vent when I remembered.

What a s***h**d. We all hate her and her ethical decisions.

Hope that helped and didn't cause stress? I'm very sorry this happend to you.

In a way, I understand her decision, but absolutely not the way she handled that. Personally, I think it 'doesn't count' with multiples, the age thing (ofcourse it does when the subject is sexual). We've all been through so much, our minds work SO dífferent from those of singletons. How many years the body of the multiple is on this earth means very little to me. Even when we all were six years old, we already saw way more of life than many adults.

PlanetIcarus wrote:BUT the ones that are already here, I think it creates deeper trauma for them and creates more dissociation between us to try to silence them.

Spot on, I think!

I'll be back for more 'reply', have to take care of some things now.

Hope you all have a nice evening.