Common trauma response or DID/DDNOS?

honestlywhatever wrote:Is it normal to literally feel like an ego state is another person and no matter how hard you try, you can't make yourself feel like that part is *you*? And that ego state also sees themselves as a different person.

No, this is not normal. The more detail you've added, the more it has sounded like a dissociative disorder. But my only "expertise" in this, of course, is that I have DID. Also, I haven't read much about various manifestations of CPTSD.

But (sorry, more questions...) what does it mean when you feel depersonalized, like you're inside your body, and you simultaneously have a sense that there's another person on the forefront controlling you/your actions?

We've generally referred to this experience -- someone else in charge of the body while you watch -- as you being co-present or perhaps co-conscious (see quick definitions in this thread) with another part of you. Depersonalization generally decreases as communication among parts increases.

Not to sound like Yoda or somebody, but some of the answers you seek really are within. Talk to yourself/yourselves. Journal. Ask within and be willing to listen for a response. This should at least help you begin to figure out what's going on.

honestlywhatever wrote:ou can't make yourself feel like that part is *you*? And that ego state also sees themselves as a different person.

my understanding is that the minute the "states" take on different personas it is not just ego states. But again I am not an expert either. I agree with johnny-jack you will find the answers if you keep looking and it will help to be in therapy and have evaluations for dissociative disorders.

sometimes not recognizing emotions as part of you is a long term habit of avoidance. This can be the case regardless of DID or not. But not wanting to own them or avoiding them and seeing them as belonging to another being - these are different.

but early days are confusing and hard. and denial is a central part of this all. So go easy on yourself and give yourself permission to change what you think is true. If today you decide they are ego states then tomorrow someone in a red dress and green high heels in your head yells at you for that. then so be it.

honestlywhatever wrote:But (sorry, more questions...) what does it mean when you feel depersonalized, like you're inside your body, and you simultaneously have a sense that there's another person on the forefront controlling you/your actions? Is that something that can happen with regular ego states?

No

And what about when you're in a certain ego state (you identify as one specific personality) but you feel influences from within yourself such as anger or shame, for example, that you don't feel belong to *you*. You don't register them as being a part of your own person. Can that also happen with ego states?

No

I agree with TeddyBear the helper. The more you describe it, the more similar it sounds to DID/DDNOS. I don't know much about ego states, except that you are supposed to still feel like yourself with different sets of behaviors, feelings, and thoughts depending on the circumstances.

If you had asked me 6 months ago if I had alters, I would have said no, because at any given moment I felt like me, just sometimes younger, sometimes more competent, sometimes worried about everything, sometimes a more confident driver, for example. It was just at another time that I would realize that I had been different than I felt in the present moment. So I think that would have fit the definition of ego states, although I don't have detailed knowledge about the therapeutic approach that uses that concept. In any case, I didn't think that I had autonomous people in here; I just knew that I had a lot of depersonalization and derealization. My system was quite hidden and functioned almost seamlessly, with no obvious amnesia.

If you are already aware of different parts, with their own feelings, who see "themselves as a different person," that's pretty suggestive. Journaling can be helpful, as Johnny-Jack mentioned.

You can take the DES (widely available online) and see what you score. It's not very specific or sensitive, but can give you a starting point. There is also a way to send away for the MID (from the Pottergate Centre in England I think) and then you can send it back and they will score it.

Thank you all for your input. It has helped me to understand myself better. And although I am leaning towards this whole thing just being me experiencing switching (sometimes very rapidly/often) between ego states that feel very separate from each other (to a point where I can feel like entirely different people on the inside), I will take your "Yoda advice" hehe, Johnny-Jack, and continue to learn more about myself and dissociative disorders.

If you had asked me 6 months ago if I had alters, I would have said no, because at any given moment I felt like me, just sometimes younger, sometimes more competent, sometimes worried about everything, sometimes a more confident driver, for example. It was just at another time that I would realize that I had been different than I felt in the present moment. So I think that would have fit the definition of ego states, although I don't have detailed knowledge about the therapeutic approach that uses that concept. In any case, I didn't think that I had autonomous people in here; I just knew that I had a lot of depersonalization and derealization. My system was quite hidden and functioned almost seamlessly, with no obvious amnesia.

TheGangsAllHere, out of curiosity, may I ask how you discovered that you had alters? Especially since it sounds like you used to be pretty confident that you didn't have them.

Hi honestlywhatever, I love this thread!

I've struggled to understand the difference between ego states and "alters."
Basically... an alter is a "dissociated ego state."
Think of dissociated as meaning "DISCONNECTED."
In other words... dissociated ego states (alters) are DISCONNECTED from each other and from certain memories or information.
I picture it this way:
In a non-dissociated person, ALL the memories and knowledge are in the same "pool" together... all the ego states have access to to this pool of knowledge, and the ego states cooperate together and "take turns" doing their jobs.
In "ME" (a dissociated person) ~ I have access to the main pool of knowledge, but my dissociated parts do not. And each of my dissociated parts has their own memories that NONE of the rest of us have access to! My dissociated parts do NOT all know each other, and most certainly do NOT work together/cooperate. They are mostly "exiles" who each have their own burdens to bear.

This is just my understanding of things at this time (it changes as I learn and grow).
Thanx for the thread!

Every alter must be composed of egostates themselves... so every alter must have plenty of egostates..
However, I, as a singleton, cant distinguish any kind of egostates similar to alters or even tiny fragments in myself at all... i am *always* exactly the same..

And the way i interpret a phrase like "a part of me" is very different from any kind of intelligence. when a singleton uses that phrase, then it is used about a static idea, something that can be written on a small piece of paper and always be valid, like "my favourite colour is.. " or "i am afraid of .."
So a sentence like "a part of me wants to save money but another part of me wants to buy .. " is then composed of two static ideas "save money" and "want to buy .."
And the thoughtprocess around it when it happens inside a singleton, is the same as it is inside an alter without any contact with anyone else.

honestlywhatever wrote:TheGangsAllHere, out of curiosity, may I ask how you discovered that you had alters? Especially since it sounds like you used to be pretty confident that you didn't have them.

I wrote about my long path to diagnosis here:
dissociative-identity/topic201581.html

But the short version is that I went to a specialist in dissociative disorders in June, since I knew that I used dissociation to cope with things, and had done so since childhood. And this happened: "After my second therapy session with this new therapist, I was lying in bed and about to fall asleep, thinking about him, and I felt this rush of affection which normally I would have pushed away since it was not okay to feel like I wanted to hug him. But instead, in the spirit of being curious about my mind (which this therapist was creating the safety to do) I kind of said inside, "Oh, so you're having that feeling," and the excited voice of a young girl said, "You talked to me! You talked to me! You never talked to me before!" That was quite a shock! And that was the first time I really was aware of parts in a way that I could no longer avoid."

They have been gradually revealing themselves to me more and more over the past 5 months, and I've been starting to see/feel the subtle switches that I hadn't noticed before. As I've gotten less frightened of losing control, I've been hearing and feeling them more; they have been able to peek out more; and a couple of them have even temporarily been out front with my awareness. Quite the roller-coaster ride! (And not one of the quaint and enjoyable rattling wooden ones either--more like the too-fast, too-steep, jerky, want-to-barf ones)

crackerjack, I'm really glad you enjoy the thread! And thank you for the reply. Yup, I have read that alters are ego states but ones that are dissociative. However, that leads me to ask the question of what the difference between alters with no amnesia (DDNOS, I guess) and regular ego states is? Basically, how can you tell apart regular ego states from alters with no amnesia?

TeddyBear the helper, thank you. That helps paint a clearer picture. I think (unless I am heavily confused) I can relate to the idea of both feeling like a singleton and the opposite of that, that you wrote about. So it pretty much all rings true for me, more or less.

TheGangsAllHere, thanks for the reply. I'll definitely read the thread you linked

If I repeat myself, I don't mean to, but I think I found a slightly better way to describe how I experience some of my ego states:

My problem is that I can't always tell which ego state is the real me (because I have no self, or it can fluctuate) and that became apparent once the one I thought was the real me completely vanished a little more than a week ago.
Then she came back after a little while but it was difficult to keep her present because it felt like she was being pushed away like she was about to drift to the side and disappear again (depersonalization?). Then eventually she did. And right now, I don't know if I am partly her or someone else (we could be the same person and maybe I'm just confused). But I do feel like only one person right now and like I am "myself" but not like the "myself" I change into with the ego states. Right now I am also confused if they genuinely even feel like separate people to begin with (even though I have felt that way before) because like I said, I feel like a whole person right now.

When I felt like the person I had lost, it felt like I remembered a part of my life that I had forgotten (but they were feelings, attitudes, thoughts, moods -- not memories) like "oh, THAT'S what it feels like to live life like that person -- I remember now!". It's kind of like if you have been close to a someone and then lose touch with them but remember that you used to know them but not how it felt to be with them or what they were like as a person, and then you hang out again and it all comes back to you. I also didn't want to "disappear" again when I was that person because I felt like I would then lose control over my life almost like someone else would be living it for me (and had been living it for me/her while she had been gone) and making decisions I didn't necessarily agree with. But I'm not as sure about the second part being true because it feels so irrelevant now that I'm thinking that I might have just made it up...

Does that sound like regular (non-dissociative) ego states? Maybe something that could occur in BPD, if anyone knows?

I also didn't want to "disappear" again when I was that person because I felt like I would then lose control over my life almost like someone else would be living it for me (and had been living it for me/her while she had been gone) and making decisions I didn't necessarily agree with. But I'm not as sure about the second part being true because it feels so irrelevant now that I'm thinking that I might have just made it up...

Does that sound like regular (non-dissociative) ego states? Maybe something that could occur in BPD, if anyone knows?

It definately dont sound like something a singleton would ever consider to be possible, a singleton that would experience this would be traumatized.

Another phrase singletons can use that may be borrowed from people with DID thru history is the "loose control of myself". That phrase isnt literal, but it only means to be overwhelmed by feelings in a emotional situation. That is also something an isolated alter can experience, especially in a triggering situation.