in crisis

I generally haven't liked the idea of spending therapy time talking about how the therapy's going or how well our relationship with the T is working. But it sure can help reset things. Recently I've done more "when you do this, I think that you..." It gives my T a chance to see my thinking process and for her to explain what's actually going on for her. I know very well the relationship between us is part of the healing process but some of us prefer to hold on to the mirage that "I am a professional person and I just happen to need therapy for a few issues."

I encourage you to discuss with your T a lot of what you mentioned here. Of course, it helps to practice or talk it out with others before therapy, like here. A therapist can change from feeling like a guide to a parent to an adversary as events happen. With a good T, it always helps to talk out how their behavior, choices, and rules affect you. In fact, if this type of discussion ends up being counter-productive, you might want to take a serious look at your own approach and/or your T's appropriateness in working with you.

Thanks lady slippers, I am trying have compassion for myself. I am not exactly proud of this.


Johnny-Jack - thank you for your perspective. Ive been thinking a lot about this. And your points resonate a lot, and a lot more with some specific parts.

I know very well the relationship between us is part of the healing process but some of us prefer to hold on to the mirage that "I am a professional person and I just happen to need therapy for a few issues."

But in some ways this is necessary. When speaking strictly about the attachment part of the healing process, Ts most often cannot provide that, even though I think they think they are. I realize when comparing my last T with this T, there is a fundamental difference. He believed in the attachment part of therapy and took on any baggage that went along with that. She is a professional that provides her time and expertise in the context of the 50 min session. She provides/allows attachment in that setting. Neither is wrong, they are different approaches. So that "mirage" or client you describe is a perfect fit for her.

Ts provide the opportunity for attachment which hopefully is a conduit for attachment to others in our lives and a safe space to explore personal challenges. But the in depth attachment cannot be provided by a T, simply due to the limitation of the therapeutic boundaries. I am curious Johnny-Jack - did your attachment needs of your T evolve since you adopted NicS?

A therapist can change from feeling like a guide to a parent to an adversary as events happen. With a good T, it always helps to talk out how their behavior, choices, and rules affect you. In fact, if this type of discussion ends up being counter-productive, you might want to take a serious look at your own approach and/or your T's appropriateness in working with you.

Im thinking about this a lot and have to wait until we actually have the conversation with her. Though I think I could take your advice and practice here. However, it makes me think of the several conversations we had last year with her about the why of why she was going to refuse us and then decided to take us. There is still something there. It is hard to tell if it is baggage or a real component of incompatibility. And whatever it is about us that she doesn't like is the foundation of these difficult interactions. That this is something inherent to our being that we try to mask in order to be a client she wants to see but the truth is, like it or not, ugly or pretty, it is one of our cards.

And if is something to work and to overcome with therapy than that is one thing. If it is not, then how will we move forward. But I feel if I bring this up she will have the "oh not this again".

There are parts that have very very hard feelings about her now, and I know this is protective. Influenced by horrible experiences with women. There are some parts that think well, she is an isstd trained therapist and those are supposed to be the best you can find, so we are so fortunate to work with her, so get it together. I have had more serious crises since being with her. I am not sure if it is because the work is going deeper, or if it is because working with a women is difficult (though this was a challenge I wanted), or if it is something else.

I get the fear she’ll think “ oh no , not this again “. Sometimes I’ve had to delve into the issues regardless of what I fear my T will think/ do or say -other times I’ve taken a little time out to get settled /journal/ maybe talk to one or two people I trust .
I went through a very unstable time with my T a few months ago. It took time to unscramble it . Perhaps because I’d had many many good experiences with T resolving conflicts I had hope this would resolve as well. That being said , I was prepared to leave if we couldn’t sort it out.

This T is more relationship oriented. The one before sounds more like the T you have-the relationship is in the session.
It’s very hard , very painful . Take good care while you sort it out .

in rereading some of this and thinking a lot some things pop out at me.

The first is part of a classic attachment disorder. She is going to leave/reject me so I will leave her first. Ok so we won't do that rashly. But is the mental discussion building a case against her that will ultimately lead to that same out come? So it seems logical. well-thought out, but is simply a strategy of certain parts.

[color=#404000]Second there are ways to enforce boundaries without being disciplinary. This is a sticking point for me. If we don't go to the appt as scheduled in two weeks it will be a message to her we are not committed to therapy. Yet I am making a HUGE compromise at work. This is a once a year event that lasts all day and I should be present. Not for me but for my team. [/color]

This T is more relationship oriented. The one before sounds more like the T you have-the relationship is in the session
It’s very hard , very painful . Take good care while you sort it out .

Thank you for this lady slippers. Yes. I am beginning to understand the difference. However internally it begs the question. If you are just going to see her to work with a female T to sort out relationships with females, then perhaps you need to see a female T who is relationship oriented. We after all in many contexts deal with females on a professional level and have no issues. Even fantastic experiences. It is the relationships with females we struggle with.

The work event. If she sees you avoiding therapy because you go to an important once a year work event that seems pretty rigid. If you/ all feel like seeing T that day is a priority than that’s different -but not to placate her.
I hope you can go with what’s best for all of you inside .

About T and relationship. It’s still different than a peer professional relationship.
The answers will come to you / all. You’ll see how your next appts go / what you learn/ how you feel.

The thing about credentials is interesting . My health care person left and I’ve seen 2 other people one of whom will take her place. The first person has all these credentials and experiences that seemingly is perfect . She’s clearly bright and competent but didn’t feel so comfortable.
The second provider who we saw for an acute illness visit (the first was off )is much less experienced, not the” prestigious ” credentials but seemed very intelligent/thorough / safe and we’d clicked with her more as a person. That’s an important piece too.
I know your T’s Isstd training gives her a lot of credibility but it’s more than that.
Hang in there. Answers will come .

What I meant to say is if she sees your going to special work event as avoiding therapy rather than fulfilling professional obligations that seems rigid and insensitive. To clarify -that’s not avoiding therapy appt.... that’s fulfilling work obligations. Sorry for poor wording

I knew what you meant lady slippers,but thanks for clarifying

About T and relationship. It’s still different than a peer professional relationship.
The answers will come to you / all. You’ll see how your next appts go / what you learn/ how you feel.

I appreciate you encouraging patience and that answers will come. That is how it has always worked for us. Like stars aligning so you can see the path, but you have to wait for all the rotations....

I am coming to the other side of this. While most issues remain I haven't wanted to run from my own life as much as I do now.

Some of the things I am feeling: (and I know there are logical, and disciplined ways to deal with these issues but I need to acknowledge they exist first).

I have been thinking a lot about things (obviously)

And i am not going to air my dirty laundry here.

And I am reminded by L's posts in other threads - what are my goals for therapy. I've been in it long enough to have goals, and perhaps this is what should drive my decisions. Is what I am doing in therapy meeting my goals?

I am asking myself:

Why are we working with her? What are the benefits, what are the drawbacks? Are my goals being addressed?

We weighted the isstd training. Her expertise here has helped. We grown because of this. Are we still growing, is there more work to be done, or have we reached the limit? (I am not saying we don't have more work to do, just on specific things she can help us with).

Did we over emphasize her being female and isstd to force a match that wasn't there?

For things that aren't working. What is real vs what is projected. There are concrete things we can address the other stuff might be too difficult to separate without discussing, a lot.

We have no interest in remembering more stuff. Is she on the same page as us with this.

Her opinions are rigid and inflexible. Are we ok with this. This is generally not a feature we like in people.

i am sure there is more but I am being told i need to get back to work!

You’re asking good questions . Plus I understand wanting to run from your life-I get that . It’s pure instinct and hard to stop .

About your T I think you’ll know more when you see her and perhaps bring up some of these concerns. I know it’s hard cause you don’t want a reaction ( negative ) from her but you’re really trying to get a sense of the fit .

My experiences have been this has come up to the point in the past we found new T but then returned to original one ... or with current T have looked at other T’s around if we wanted to leave .
I don’t think it’s unusual to question the fit time to time .

LadySlippers wrote:About your T I think you’ll know more when you see her and perhaps bring up some of these concerns. I know it’s hard cause you don’t want a reaction ( negative ) from her but you’re really trying to get a sense of the fit .

Yeah exactly. But we have developed an if ...then plan/scenario to help calm the parts that are worried about that negative reaction. Because you are right we could placate her but where will that get is in the long run. But that would be our instinct.

LadySlippers wrote:My experiences have been this has come up to the point in the past we found new T but then returned to original one ... or with current T have looked at other T’s around if we wanted to leave .
I don’t think it’s unusual to question the fit time to time .

yeah I agree with you. My old T was on board with this approach. And I did leave him and come back to him. then I left him 4 years later and are with this new t. I have seen him since I left him a year and a half a go and he is very supportive of exploration like this. I feel my current T would not be supportive of this. I can't say for sure because we haven't had the conversation. But judging by her voicemail message and what was said, well, I feel like any hesitation with her means I am done. That said, i would have to have that discussion in person to get a better feel.