Broaching the subject of aggressive others. Trigger Warning!

Gonna wrap this whole thing in a big *TW: Sexual Abuse, Violent Alter, Animal Alter, Personal System Descriptor, Conflict, Therapy, Mislabeled Possession, Forced Treatment.* Hopefully that covers it... sorry i'm still pretty green.

Hi, so I'm new, and officially not yet diagnosed with... well, anything really. I'm still working up the nerve to speak with my therapist about the things I'm dealing with, but I was hoping perhaps talking anonymously on here with some folks might help.

My symptoms are fairly similar to DID or at least DDNOS-1, or perhaps a form of PTSD, but I'd like to avoid trying to sort out a label for now. Suffice to say that I or we (the person(s) typing) am/are entirely aware of every fragment of myself since my SA, identify each fragment as a different variation of my own self, and each fragment is capable of carrying on a conversation with the rest of the whole.

There is one piece however, who didn't form like the others. I know he's what's called a guardian, and exists to protect a very specific piece that was created after my being sexually abused and raped.

Unlike the rest of my fragmented self, this piece isn't formed into an alteration of myself as a different age/gender/race but into a tiger. He'll come forward whenever I (er, the little boy piece of me rather) feels threatened, or if someone is bating me over my rape, or even if I see someone else in a situation in which I feel they're being abused (even verbally!)

He's not especially violent, and I'm more or less religiously pacifist in that regard, but when that piece comes forward I actually growl or roar like an animal... to the point that I know I've terrified at least one poor sap who thought it was his right to make fun of me for being a male survivor of rape (my fault for sharing with the wrong folks I guess.) Of course, this also had me mislabeled as being possessed for some time, and I'm not keen on having that happen again (well, one piece of me is, but let's not drag him into this right now)...

...and yet, I do feel like I have to broach this with a therapist. So, anyone got any advice on doing that? With all of the others, they're just a slight alteration of myself that can more or less dialogue at the same instant as the whole (there are at least two of us talking now, and it's flowing pretty smoothly.) But with him... if he comes forward it's like my brain shuts off and I just get these short clips of emotion: terrify, enrage, defend, snarl, growl, bite, etc. that make sense for a piece that was created to protect a little kid from ongoing trauma from sexual abuse and rape... but makes it freaking hard to carry on an intelligent, reasoned conversation about/with.

The childish (little?) part of me is also terrified of being hauled off and locked away somewhere, never seeing my parents again and being forced into medication/treatment. I know that's highly irrational, but at the same time, not being able to address his fears is putting the guardian into an uncomfortable place when I go to speak with my therapist.

Any help is greatly appreciated, and sorry again if I mis-labeled the TW or posted in the wrong area. I'll stop rambling now.

Ho

Nice to meet you. Your experience of yourself in the plural sounds pretty similar to ours (though I must say I am envious of the communication awesomeness). I have no experience with animal atlers, but plenty of people around here do... I am the protective type though and also one of the reasons our System ended up giving therapy a shot (uhm.. inappropriate Mal is inappropriate in short: I overreact to one System mate's distress and get us in trouble). So we decided to give therapy a shot, so Mara, who gets overwhelmed might learn to deal with life without getting so stressed I feel like I have to jump up Front for the rescue and for me to improve my.. ehem.. rescue regime.

We've been seeing a lady for about a month or so now.. so not particularly long

Anyway, choosing the right therapist is maybe the hardest part. Make sure who you're seeing has an understanding and ideally experience in dealing with dissociation/trauma.

As for broaching the subject.. well we rattled right in there and told the lady I thought I was dealing with a form of dissocation. We gave her examples of "my subjective experience"
We mentioned every symptom domain I/we experience using short examples from our life. We made no secret out of having read up on the matter.

When it came to my/our experience of multiplicity, well, that was a little harder because some of us were really scared to open up about that and I don't Front for our sessions (co-con though - you know, present) In the end I (Dez here) explained that while we do not have significant memory loss and understand that I therefore am not dealing with DID that I still have a very distinct "subjective experience" of myself as a group of separate, (semi)-autonomous Parts of myself, with their own sets of feelings, memories, beliefs, ways of expressing themselves, etc. I explained that I believed it was important to view myself in this way and allow these Parts of myself a certain individuality but also pointed out that I understood that no matter my subjective experience that I am still responsible for all my actions.. just that a lot of my actions don't feel like my own but that of the Others. That I am present for all of my life but don't feel in charge for large chunks of it i.e. when one of the Others is Fronting.



Mara was really scared about opening up about "hearing thought voices" and thinking of ouselves as.. well US. It is important to remember that the only reason for hospitalization is if you were a danger to yourself or others. However, if you are still a minor your parents may also hold the right to commit you to a hospital. I guess only you can know if your parents would be likely to feel this way. My Mother considered this when I was younger (I am in my thirties now ) but my therapist at the time actually advised against it. So you know, if you feel comfortable with your T you might as well be honest. Get the most out of your sessions.

Here is a thread Mal started when he was disillusioned with the way Mara initially broached.. or should I say couched.. the subject in therapy (trigger denial/internal conflict/roles) - not so much our rant itself, but the answers we got:
dissociative-identity/topic109468.html


It's hard to open up like this but yeah. It's been worth it so far

Good luck!

Hi and welcome! It's certainly OK to post here! No worries there.

I don't often make such an issue of trigger warnings. If it's just a small or unimportant piece, well, I just put a general trigger warning around it. Otherwise, I write what kind it is. And normally, I ignore them myself Can handle them usually. Sometimes slightly triggering, but I very rarely skip things.

Thanks for the responses, it's nice to know I'm not alone out here.

And sorry if I overdid the TW... it was my first post in here and I was so nervous about getting it right. I (the person who primarily will post I imagine) am big on propriety and doing things the 'right' or 'acceptable' way. So yeah... better safe than sorry I guess

I'm in my 20's, so not too worried about the parents thing. Mostly it's the effect that would have on the younger version of me in my brain that scares me... the first trauma created the guardian protector and look how troublesome it is to work with that part of me? I'd be truly scared what else might happen if I get myself in a position of being in additional trauma.

But then, if I'm not willing to risk sharing all of me, then I'm probably not ready at all. I'll just have to get all of my collective self together and go tackle this thing. When I confronted my first female self, it was the most terrifying thing I had experienced- and honestly, I can't imagine putting out the possibility that I'm dissociative to a therapist can be that much worse.

I do have a few minor memory blanks- mostly during high school when I was first traumatized. Thankfully that's stopped and I know which part of me has those memories... I just kind of don't want to see them. One or two others, but I at least know who has which ones.

I'm still not sure if communication is awesome or a pain. I do know that the fragmented parts of my psyche are connected to the migraines I get, since expressing one or more of them that I'm heavily repressing always seems to release the pain. So maybe communicating is just me and my parts avoiding additional suffering on all parts.

I think I'll try and map some of this out for myself in a blog post before I do talk to a therapist. Hopefully get an idea of what I'm going to say and what I've discovered on my own, before I walk in there. Something about being properly knowledgeable about the appointment is comforting to all involved.

Thanks again

if you haven't seen this already, this thread might be helpful to you. it has other threads that discuss alters (violent, depressive, aggressive, abusive, destructive, etc)- and how to help them express themselves safely, has a thread that has DDNOS-1/DID resource websites, and has threads that discuss many topics, from communicating with alters, to mapping out your system, to doubt/denial issues, to therapy stuff, etc.


-- For all new to this site/For all seeking help & advice: http://www.psychforums.com/dissociative-identity/topic110069.html


hope you find this place helpful to you!


- cassie

Ithrean wrote:So maybe communicating is just me and my parts avoiding additional suffering on all parts.

I don't think it's avoiding. Communication is normally seen as a good thing. The more, the better.
I've not had headaches due to dissociation, but I've heard of it before.

Hey there and welcome!

Your tiger sounds awesome, I'm glad he's there to protect you! We have one similar to this, but he is a wolf - he also does the growling, snarling thing (or just gives people his "I'm going to rip your throat out" look which is usually hilarious because they deserve it).

One thing we discovered (by accident) a while ago is that we can somehow all link up to share his animal-consciousness - it is like a kind of contagion where not only he feels like a wolf but we all feel like a pack of them. But at the same time, we all have our normal human consciousness as well, so while we have the energy and "hunting instincts" of the wolf, we don't behave like an animal while we're at it. We can balance his defensive/protective qualities with human intelligence (just wondering if that makes us werewolves? )

I'm honestly not sure how exactly it works, we think it is a function of increasing integration and that the "animal-consciousness" is the easiest part for us all to share because it is not terribly sophisticated. Not sure if it would work for you, since tigers are not pack animals, but you could try.

ruby

Ithrean wrote:



I'm still not sure if communication is awesome or a pain. I do know that the fragmented parts of my psyche are connected to the migraines I get, since expressing one or more of them that I'm heavily repressing always seems to release the pain. So maybe communicating is just me and my parts avoiding additional suffering on all parts.

I think I'll try and map some of this out for myself in a blog post before I do talk to a therapist. Hopefully get an idea of what I'm going to say and what I've discovered on my own, before I walk in there. Something about being properly knowledgeable about the appointment is comforting to all involved.

Hey. Definitely sit on it and sleep on it and work with it before coming out to the therapist.

A side thought
I had terrible migraines/headaches. I knew they are connected too, after they excluded a tumor and all such things. I had a strange 'encounter' and it turned out that the Headache is a person. It is a protector. It cannot talk well, but I can now talk to it. It works very often, I say: I HAVE IT. I do not need you right now.
Sometimes the pain and turmoil istoo much for the talk to work now, but I know SHE the HEADACHE is holding on to my skull.
I am not saying you have a Headache Person, I am saying it is definitely a part of a defensive and protective system. Some sort of appreciation towards it might loosen it's grip if it is too debilitating. I hope this is not too insane

Dumba** people who are uneducated about rape and male rape and such. I want to stick books with a broom up their nose.

The Tiger sounds great,
We have a CrowRaven.
Animals are amazing protectors. Go with it for now, I'd say.
Sorry if my post is messy I fight to write

Isaka

tomboy24 wrote:if you haven't seen this already, this thread might be helpful to you. it has other threads that discuss alters (violent, depressive, aggressive, abusive, destructive, etc)- and how to help them express themselves safely, has a thread that has DDNOS-1/DID resource websites, and has threads that discuss many topics, from communicating with alters, to mapping out your system, to doubt/denial issues, to therapy stuff, etc.


-- For all new to this site/For all seeking help & advice: http://www.psychforums.com/dissociative-identity/topic110069.html

Thanks Cassie! I'll probably spend a while reading through all that as I settle in here. Glad someone has congregated all those links for new folks like me

oaktree wrote:I don't think it's avoiding. Communication is normally seen as a good thing. The more, the better.
I've not had headaches due to dissociation, but I've heard of it before.

You're probably right, it's just still scary for me to actually have a conversation with myself like that, or to know a different part of me is speaking. With some it's easier than others, but hopefully it gets easier with time. And hopefully no more headaches- they're no fun...

tribeofone wrote:
One thing we discovered (by accident) a while ago is that we can somehow all link up to share his animal-consciousness - it is like a kind of contagion where not only he feels like a wolf but we all feel like a pack of them. But at the same time, we all have our normal human consciousness as well, so while we have the energy and "hunting instincts" of the wolf, we don't behave like an animal while we're at it. We can balance his defensive/protective qualities with human intelligence (just wondering if that makes us werewolves? )

I'm honestly not sure how exactly it works, we think it is a function of increasing integration and that the "animal-consciousness" is the easiest part for us all to share because it is not terribly sophisticated. Not sure if it would work for you, since tigers are not pack animals, but you could try.

Thanks for the welcome and reply Ruby! What you all have with your wolf sounds amazing... I'd love to be able to share the tiger like that. In particular, S and the Boy would benefit greatly from feeling like they've got the tiger's strength and ferocity, rather than feeling weak and helpless all the time. I dunno if I'll be able to do it either, but I'm certainly going to try.

PinkiePie wrote:Hey. Definitely sit on it and sleep on it and work with it before coming out to the therapist.

A side thought
I had terrible migraines/headaches. I knew they are connected too, after they excluded a tumor and all such things. I had a strange 'encounter' and it turned out that the Headache is a person. It is a protector. It cannot talk well, but I can now talk to it. It works very often, I say: I HAVE IT. I do not need you right now.
Sometimes the pain and turmoil istoo much for the talk to work now, but I know SHE the HEADACHE is holding on to my skull.
I am not saying you have a Headache Person, I am saying it is definitely a part of a defensive and protective system. Some sort of appreciation towards it might loosen it's grip if it is too debilitating. I hope this is not too insane

Dumba** people who are uneducated about rape and male rape and such. I want to stick books with a broom up their nose.

The Tiger sounds great,
We have a CrowRaven.
Animals are amazing protectors. Go with it for now, I'd say.
Sorry if my post is messy I fight to write

Isaka

Thanks for the advice Isaka, it's definitely a big step for me. The idea of the headache being an alter itself hadn't occurred to me, but I'll try and read up on it and maybe talk about it with the T. I don't think it's insane at all, and I think you're on to something with it being tied into the defensive network (with the tiger being the primary one to show up when they happen.)

tribeofone wrote:We have one similar to this, but he is a wolf - he also does the growling, snarling thing (or just gives people his "I'm going to rip your throat out" look which is usually hilarious because they deserve it).

We have one too! On multiple occasions he has caused a predator to flee. He also gives us an early warning so we are not caught off guard.

Anyway, Ithrean, I hope you can see from all our responses that having such a fierce strong part is normal and healthy. The only problem I see here is that sometimes loud noises are not appropriate, but that's a problem that is pretty easy to fix. So embrace that amazing protective part of you.