Mental Injury

green_tea wrote:

AlAtBar wrote: Well you can thank women for finding ESTJ the most attractive. They obviously prefer those types of genes if that's how the world ended up. (Sorry to invoked the dreaded dating thread.)

Shoo shoo, back to the dating thread. Yes, Al, it's all women's fault. Those poor men are out there struggling to choose women who are sensitive, kind, gentle and sane because men's main objective is to find good mothers for their children. They would never be so irresponsible as to breed with someone due to shallow things like mere physical appearance. [/sarcasm]

Seriously, though, I could make a ton of observations and generalizations about men. I won't though because, as I mentioned before, I am AWOL from the war of the sexes. I was only a conscript to begin with, not a volunteer. The whole war of the sexes thing is one reason I was simply never interested in getting involved at all. I just want peace.

I agree with you that men tend to place too much emphasis on physical appearance and not enough on things like sensitivity, kindness, etc. Physical attractiveness still matters to me. But it's really only a threshold requirement, not a main focus. What boggles my mind is how so many men will sleep with say a "fat girl" but then never want anything beyond something casual just because she's a "fat girl".

As for ESTJ guys, aren't ESTJ men basically your typical jackass slave driver boss? Anyone who is turned on by guys like that is mentally defective. ISTJs also make bad bosses too. Which is why I don't like taking up leadership rules. As a leader I'm either too lax and timid because I don't want to step on other people's toes (that's where I'm more of a F I guess) or I can be a real hard ass. Since I don't like working with hard asses, I hate being the hard ass. My manager is definitely a ISTJ (light on introversion though. But stronger than me in the STJ for sure. You can't get away with being too introverted as a boss) and he's getting on some of his underling's nerves lately (including mine). I'm pretty much a model employee who is productive, doesn't chit-chat much, puts in more time than I'm paid for and he catches me (or if not he, someone ratted me out) using my cell during work hours (mostly on my break ffs) and complains about it to my supervisor (Who stuck up for me. She's more of a ESFX.) It hasn't been very busy for me lately and I'm usually a freakin workhorse. Gimme a break. One more indication that in this world just because someone is friendly with you doesn't mean that they are your friend. Episodes like that just encourage me to be more schizoid-esque, "all business"-esque and less friendly with people. Though that's certainly not fair to the people who are loyal and genuinely friendly. So I can't ever be anywhere close to 100% schizoid.

techaddict wrote:

green_tea wrote:

AlAtBar wrote: Well you can thank women for finding ESTJ the most attractive. They obviously prefer those types of genes if that's how the world ended up. (Sorry to invoked the dreaded dating thread.)

Shoo shoo, back to the dating thread. Yes, Al, it's all women's fault. Those poor men are out there struggling to choose women who are sensitive, kind, gentle and sane because men's main objective is to find good mothers for their children. They would never be so irresponsible as to breed with someone due to shallow things like mere physical appearance. [/sarcasm]

Seriously, though, I could make a ton of observations and generalizations about men. I won't though because, as I mentioned before, I am AWOL from the war of the sexes. I was only a conscript to begin with, not a volunteer. The whole war of the sexes thing is one reason I was simply never interested in getting involved at all. I just want peace.

I agree with you that men tend to place too much emphasis on physical appearance and not enough on things like sensitivity, kindness, etc. Physical attractiveness still matters to me. But it's really only a threshold requirement, not a main focus. What boggles my mind is how so many men will sleep with say a "fat girl" but then never want anything beyond something casual just because she's a "fat girl".

Tech! you came through and saved that post that was accidentally deleted.

techaddict wrote:As for ESTJ guys, aren't ESTJ men basically your typical jackass slave driver boss?

Yes, I believe they are, but don’t quote me. I have spent all my time learning about INFPs and INFJs and a little on ENFPs.

techaddict wrote:Anyone who is turned on by guys like that is mentally defective.

Misguided. Or maybe just plain, yeh... what you said. Although, in my weaker more generous moments I can see where a few ESTJs may have some useful place. The problem is they have overpopulated.

Tech, I really think you are a good man deep down. I think you were exposed to abusive behavior as a kid. That is a big risk factor. I think you will be OK if you acknowledge that you need some assistance from an older wiser guy (some quack with a relatively happy family) who can give you the guidance you didn’t get as a kid. Think of it as a partial re-parenting. The issue is that, just like my one close friend, you have experienced abuse and so you will slide into abusing others. Get a quack and make it be known your goal is to not fall into the abuse trap.

It's pretty clear that women's preferences are a bigger factor in determining the direction of evolution of the species than men's are. Women are by far the more selective ones when it comes to sex than men are. So, yes, the direction of evolution is mainly on women. And that's actual the best of the two alternatives. As bad as you may think EST dominance is, it would be far worse if men were the more selective ones. As you point out it would then be all about looks. We would be a very fit and beautiful species, but probably would still be living in caves if men were driving evolution.

Btw, if you look up statistics for MBTI it turns out that half the traits are close, but F is rather more common than T, with the ratio being 3:2. S is 3 times as common as N. For women F is much more common than T, but with men it's a bit more of a toss up.

http://www.theanconas.com/MBTI/mfstats.htm

The stats are also intereting in that they show that the 4 traits are not independent.

AlAtBar wrote:It's pretty clear that women's preferences are a bigger factor in determining the direction of evolution of the species than men's are. Women are by far the more selective ones when it comes to sex than men are. So, yes, the direction of evolution is mainly on women. And that's actual the best of the two alternatives. As bad as you may think ESTJ dominance is, it would be far worse if men were the more selective ones. As you point out it would then be all about looks. We would be a very fit and beautiful species, but probably would still be living in caves if men were driving evolution.

Btw, if you look up statistics for MBTI it turns out that most traits are a toss up, but F is much more common than T. Especially amongst women, with men it's a bit more of a toss up. The stats are also intereting in that they show that the 4 traits are not independent.

Just like it was pretty clear that building a nuclear power plant in Japan was nooo problem.

At this point, Al, it doesn't seem to me that most people are selective at all with respect to healthy noble qualities. I think a few people are still concerned with raising children, but they are such a small percentage.

Al, your views are skewed.

Where can I go to see this MBTI info?

http://www.theanconas.com/MBTI/mfstats.htm


Geez, so much hatred of other personality types in this thread. I think there are an equal number of good and bad people across every MBTI type. I'm certainly no MBTI snob. But hey, I guess MBTI bigotry is much better than "battle of the sexes", huh?

AlAtBar wrote:http://www.theanconas.com/MBTI/mfstats.htm


Geez, so much hatred of other personality types in this thread. I think there are an equal number of good and bad people across every MBTI type. I'm certainly no MBTI snob. But hey, I guess MBTI bigotry is much better than "battle of the sexes", huh?

I have spent most of my life being told how wrong I was to be myself.

Try for a little empathy.

The non-sensitive people are not going to be damaged. They will never know I even existed, except to recall this over-sensitive kid they found so annoying.

AlAtBar wrote:http://www.theanconas.com/MBTI/mfstats.htm

Interesting. I want to know where they got these data.

green_tea wrote:At this point, Al, it doesn't seem to me that most people are selective at all with respect to healthy noble qualities. I think a few people are still concerned with raising children, but they are such a small percentage.

Yeah people are selective but they aren't selective when it comes to the right qualities. There is a reason why the divorce rate is so high and many married couples that stay together are miserable.

Tech, I really think you are a good man deep down. I think you were exposed to abusive behavior as a kid. That is a big risk factor. I think you will be OK if you acknowledge that you need some assistance from an older wiser guy (some quack with a relatively happy family) who can give you the guidance you didn’t get as a kid. Think of it as a partial re-parenting. The issue is that, just like my one close friend, you have experienced abuse and so you will slide into abusing others. Get a quack and make it be known your goal is to not fall into the abuse trap.

The only people that I'm really abusive (verbally) towards these days is my parents and older sister. And considering the amount of developmental harm they caused me since childhood, I can see why snapping at them is pretty much a natural reflex for me. Maybe it's just my brain's way of signalling to me that I need my space from my family. I don't feel that I'm at risk for being abusive towards girlfriends or a wife. Yeah I've went on frustrated rants on here. But I didn't take it out on the women who were the source of that frustration. I was verbally/emotionally abusive with my ex-girlfriend at around 16-18 but I've learned my lessons from that. I wouldn't stick around long in a relationship where I was unhappy.

Just take care and don't hesitate to prevent problems.

AlAtBar wrote: Well you can thank women for finding ESTJ the most attractive. They obviously prefer those types of genes if that's how the world ended up.

I think things like MBTI personality type and HSP are polygenic traits and I suspect an ESTJ can have an INFP kid. There are INFPs on other sites who claim to have at least one ESTJ parent, etc. If I am right, then sexual selection doesn't completely determine what percentage of humans are INFP vs ESTJ etc.