Mental Injury

Most PDs like AvPD and Schizoid and Borderline ought to be referred to as "mental injuries" instead of illnesses or disorders. Sure, in some cases there may be a genetic component, such as being born with a sensitive personality that is vulnerable to emotional injuries, but the injuries are the problem, not the original sensitive personality.

I wish there were a "Random Thoughts" forum where I could put this.

Hmm, that's interesting. And you're right. I was talking with someone who is bipolar, and that's one of the things we were discussing. He felt damaged because he was born that way, but even though my damage wasn't innate, I feel like I have have no control over it because it started due to external causes that are still in my life and who absolutely won't change how they treat me. All I can do is abandon them the way they abandoned me. Tit-for-tat doesn't work for me.

"bipolar II" seems to be the latest quack fad.

There are neither biological nor physical tests for any mental illness like real bipolar and depression. Those things seem like possible illnesses.

youtube dot com/watch?v=S6Q4dMy5aF8
www dot youtube dot com/watch?v=bguQkX1M1Pg

Avoidant, schizoid and borderline seem to be injuries inflicted on, often sensitive, children.

My son has inherited my sensitivity. If a teacher doesn't read and comment on an assignment immediately he assumes she hates his work, and hates him. He is not avoidant. He's just very sensitive. So I have to really make sure he's not bullied, and with ADHD and Asperger's that's tough not to let him become a target, to make sure he doesn't become avoidant.

According to the DSM-V website they will rename '... personality disorder' to '... type', which you will be rated on using a 5 point scale. Which seems like an improvement to me, I never liked the terminology.

I think focusing to much on mental injuries is not good either. I became this way with loving parents, without any traumatic events happening or (excessive) childhood rejection by peers. Obviously there were many environmental factors that influenced the development of my social anxiety, but it was definitely a case of being extremely sensitive in the first place that allowed such factors to affect me so strongly. My sister has had problems with anxiety attacks and extreme physical responses to stress, although she is quite extroverted. So I think it's probably primarily a genetic thing in my case.

green_tea wrote:but the injuries are the problem, not the original sensitive personality.

What if the sensitivity is a disorder that allows the injuries to occur?

I'm trying to think of a simple example to explain what I mean, but it's hard to think of something that can't be taken as offensive. (I'm not trying to insult people with PDs or sensitive personalities, but just trying to play devil's advocate to help me understand green_tea's view.)

Say a child is overweight. Let's make her an obese girl. Her mother tells her she's fat. This is a fact; she is fat. But the girl's mind is disordered, and she adds all this non-factual information to her mother's statement. In the girl's mind, the mother is not remarking on her body shape, but is placing a judgement on the girl's value. The girl interprets the mother's comment as rejection. The girl then feels depressed and thinks about punishing herself for being unlovable.

So did the mother's comment injure the girl, causing a disorder? Or did the girl's disorder allow the mother's comment to injure her?

I am tempted to say the girl's disorder allowed the injury to occur. People and events have hurt me, mostly when I was a child and thus more vulnerable or impressionable. However, other people have no doubt experienced very similar hurts, and not allowed themselves to be injured. Or maybe they healed themselves much more quickly. So I must assume that I somehow contributed to the injuries, or at least to the depth of the wounds.

Reynaert wrote:I think focusing to much on mental injuries is not good either. I became this way with loving parents, without any traumatic events happening or (excessive) childhood rejection by peers. Obviously there were many environmental factors that influenced the development of my social anxiety, but it was definitely a case of being extremely sensitive in the first place that allowed such factors to affect me so strongly. My sister has had problems with anxiety attacks and extreme physical responses to stress, although she is quite extroverted. So I think it's probably primarily a genetic thing in my case.

Platypus wrote:What if the sensitivity is a disorder that allows the injuries to occur?

...I am tempted to say the girl's disorder allowed the injury to occur. People and events have hurt me, mostly when I was a child and thus more vulnerable or impressionable. However, other people have no doubt experienced very similar hurts, and not allowed themselves to be injured. Or maybe they healed themselves much more quickly. So I must assume that I somehow contributed to the injuries, or at least to the depth of the wounds.

So you are viewing sensitivity as the problem. I still view it as a mere risk factor for injury.

The thing is that I think that sensitivity is a positive trait if handled and nurtured properly. So if it can be a positive trait, and, as Elaine Aron says, is found in 15-20% of the population, then it is not, in itself, a "disorder." It may predispose a person to "disorders," though. In the same vein, being fair skinned is not a disorder, but skin cancer from the same sun exposure that a darker skinned person tolerates well is an illness. So sensitivity, like being fair skinned, is a risk factor but not a disorder in and of itself.

I suppose there might also be a need to differentiate between physical sensitivity (eg to sound, light, smells) and emotional sensitivity. I think they may usually go together as a package deal, though. It's all nervous system related.

I was trying to find a less pejorative way to name the problems PD persons have. If it’s considered an injury it is less likely to be seen as the fault of the person. Not to say that the person has no responsibility for trying to heal the injury and protect against re-injury – e.g. like the fair skinned person with skin cancer would get it treated and use a lot of sunscreen and avoid sun exposure, etc.

If the parents of the fair skinned child don’t make sure the kid is covered up or wearing sunscreen outdoors, it isn’t the kid’s fault when he/she grows up and has skin cancer from the lack of care.

green_tea wrote:

youtube dot com/watch?v=S6Q4dMy5aF8
www dot youtube dot com/watch?v=bguQkX1M1Pg

What disgusts me is how so many of the psychiatrists in these videos laugh at the idea of tests and cures. They laugh. Yet, from what I hear, they act officious and authoritative as they prescribe dangerous chemicals to suffering people. Disgusting.

I think being avoidant does not necessarily mean that one has a sensitive nature. I believe I am very sensitive to what people think about me, but I would not call me very sensitive in general. I think another cause for avoidant behaviour could be being a control freak, wanting to control the image other people have about oneself, not being able to accept that you sometimes lose a game, and preferring not to play at all to avoid the risk that you would lose. I don't know if there is a deeper cause for control freak behaviour and fear of losing. Lack of self esteem maybe?

green_tea wrote:So you are viewing sensitivity as the problem. I still view it as a mere risk factor for injury.

I wonder if this could be explained by our slightly different dominant coping strategies? I assume you are more avoidant than me, and I am more schizoid than you. So if you'll allow me to stereotype, avoidants avoid or hide from events or people that hurt them. It makes sense for avoidants to see the hurt as an "injury", and the event/people that they are hiding from as "dangerous". Otherwise, it would be hard to justify to yourself why you are avoiding. (If there is no threat of injury, than you must be a wimp or crazy!)

Whereas the schizoid response is more about detaching than avoiding. So instead of avoiding the hurt, I feel as if I'm not really there. I think that I am safe in my head. So trying to see the hurt as injurious doesn't make sense to me, because I like to think that in a detached state I am impervious.
So if I am injured, then that would mean that I am not actually invincible. I think there is a part of me that won't accept that, and so refuses to see other people as dangerous.

Does that make sense?

green_tea wrote:I was trying to find a less pejorative way to name the problems PD persons have.

Yes, I understand. Maybe when the DSM changes as Reynaert has described, it will be better.


In some ways "disease" is a better word than "disorder" or "injury". (Although I realise it's probably more pejorative!) The reason I think it can be fitting is that PDs can seem contagious. Parents with PDs tend to raise more children with PDs. Also, it is literally correct, in that most people with PDs are at dis-ease. They are not comfortable with everyday 'normal' situations.