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Avoidants and Sex

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Re: Avoidants and Sex

Postby Smacster » Sun Dec 20, 2009 6:06 am

sfguy75x wrote:
Parador wrote:One day she told me she was sorry that I had to wait so long. I gave a shy soft spoken "That's alright." and her interest totally vanished.


I've noticed this phenomenon too. If I'm having even the slightest bit of fun in a conversation with a woman, and she apologizes for something, saying something like "that's OK" always makes it grind to a halt.

So what's the correct response? It happens often enough that it would be good to know.


An honest "Why are you apologizing?" works for me. If you call a girl's attention to the fact that they apologized for no reason, they will automatically think they're stupid and you're smart & attentive (I think it's called a demonstration of value in pick up lingo).
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Re: Avoidants and Sex

Postby thepain » Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:14 am

Icygirl wrote: Are you clean? Are you kind? If yes to those, then I think you can find someone who will want to be intimate with you and be patient through some or even many awkward encounters.


Being kind or nice doesnt get ya laid, sure no stds of course :lol: But seriously being nice only leads to one thing, your the real life 40 yr old virgin, except this isnt hollywood with the happy ending. Money and power get you laid and i doubt many guys with AvPD have either.
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Re: Avoidants and Sex

Postby twistermind » Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:54 pm

@Nevergive_up: Your last post remembers me a movie: The Ugly True. Have you watched it? In this movie a guy guide a TV show where he offers datind advise to women in a most crude terms. It was really hillarious.
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Re: Avoidants and Sex

Postby Nevergive_up » Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:03 am

I have downloaded the movie just our curiousity , will tell you tomorrow if you have a good taste in movies or not :wink:
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Re: Avoidants and Sex

Postby Ebontiel » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:06 am

Smacster wrote:
sfguy75x wrote:
Parador wrote:One day she told me she was sorry that I had to wait so long. I gave a shy soft spoken "That's alright." and her interest totally vanished.


I've noticed this phenomenon too. If I'm having even the slightest bit of fun in a conversation with a woman, and she apologizes for something, saying something like "that's OK" always makes it grind to a halt.

So what's the correct response? It happens often enough that it would be good to know.


An honest "Why are you apologizing?" works for me. If you call a girl's attention to the fact that they apologized for no reason, they will automatically think they're stupid and you're smart & attentive (I think it's called a demonstration of value in pick up lingo).


This would make me very angry. Anything that deliberately denigrates women would make me angry. Keep in mind that in a lot of cases YOU ARE NOT FOOLING THEM with these "game theory" things. Having a "plan of attack" makes you more confident--most women have been conditioned to look for caretakers, for experienced and confident men. Like Icygirl said, this isn't always the case--I like shy guys, my best friend was engaged to a very shy dude, but avoidant men admittedly have to fight against the grain of Western culture. But putting yourself in a place of authority by making the person you want to date or have sex with feel STUPID is bullying, it is crass manipulation, and if getting laid is so important than you're willing to turn into an asshole to do it...

Also, Parador, as a cashier, half the time when I smile at people, even attractive men of my own age, I am doing it because it is my job to be nice. Don't take it personally either way.

EDIT: And why do women automatically have to assume that they are being corrected? Why does it have to lead, at least as I guess it is commonly perceived, to an assumption of stupidity? Would a man assume the same? And I would officially like to register my intense disapproval of the words "wuss" and "wussy," do to their obvious cognates, which effectively turn femininity into an insult. Think of all the insults revolving around the female genitals, and then try to come up with as many that are as commonly used based after the male.

I think I'm done now.
I belong to an avoidant social network called AVPD Net. PM me if you'd like an invite--I don't bite!
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Re: Avoidants and Sex

Postby Smacster » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:34 am

Ebontiel wrote:This would make me very angry. Anything that deliberately denigrates women would make me angry. Keep in mind that in a lot of cases YOU ARE NOT FOOLING THEM with these "game theory" things. Having a "plan of attack" makes you more confident--most women have been conditioned to look for caretakers, for experienced and confident men. Like Icygirl said, this isn't always the case--I like shy guys, my best friend was engaged to a very shy dude, but avoidant men admittedly have to fight against the grain of Western culture. But putting yourself in a place of authority by making the person you want to date or have sex with feel STUPID is bullying, it is crass manipulation, and if getting laid is so important than you're willing to turn into an asshole to do it...

Also, Parador, as a cashier, half the time when I smile at people, even attractive men of my own age, I am doing it because it is my job to be nice. Don't take it personally either way.

EDIT: And why do women automatically have to assume that they are being corrected? Why does it have to lead, at least as I guess it is commonly perceived, to an assumption of stupidity? Would a man assume the same? And I would officially like to register my intense disapproval of the words "wuss" and "wussy," do to their obvious cognates, which effectively turn femininity into an insult. Think of all the insults revolving around the female genitals, and then try to come up with as many that are as commonly used based after the male.

I think I'm done now.


Calm down, Betty Friedan. It's not my intention to make anyone feel stupid, but apologizing for doing nothing IS stupid.

Why do you apologize? Because you did something wrong. If you don't do anything wrong, why are you apologizing?
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Re: Avoidants and Sex

Postby CSRevenant » Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:00 am

Ebontiel wrote:
EDIT: And why do women automatically have to assume that they are being corrected? Why does it have to lead, at least as I guess it is commonly perceived, to an assumption of stupidity? Would a man assume the same? And I would officially like to register my intense disapproval of the words "wuss" and "wussy," do to their obvious cognates, which effectively turn femininity into an insult. Think of all the insults revolving around the female genitals, and then try to come up with as many that are as commonly used based after the male.

I think I'm done now.


True, but masculinity itself is also punished throughout school years, and is still frowned upon. Everywhere you look there are advertisements that ridicule and berate men as stupid mindless sexual deviant pigs. Masculinity isn't any safer from ridicule than being feminine is. And while im on the subject, I'd like to register my disapproval of man-bashing.
Don’t tell me I cannot go
With a wound that refuses to mend
Deliver me from all of this
I want you to quicken my end

Don’t say it isn’t so
I’m on a path that you’ll never comprehend
Set me free from all of this
I need you to quicken my end

Criminal - Disturbed
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Re: Avoidants and Sex

Postby Parador » Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:18 am

Ebontiel wrote:Also, Parador, as a cashier, half the time when I smile at people, even attractive men of my own age, I am doing it because it is my job to be nice. Don't take it personally either way.
.


She never even smiled at me after that.

I'm not touching the rest of this argument.
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.
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Re: Avoidants and Sex

Postby sfguy » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:10 am

Ebontiel wrote: Keep in mind that in a lot of cases YOU ARE NOT FOOLING THEM with these "game theory" things.

Nobody said anything about fooling anyone. These techniques are about how to avoid being so dorky that whatever chance you may or may not have had is prematurely closed.

It's also about learning the steps of a complex social dance that most women already know. You don't have to lie to women or pretend you are someone completely different than who you are. It's about learning how to flirt and keeping it fun, and in the dance metaphor, not stepping on her feet.
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Re: Avoidants and Sex

Postby Ebontiel » Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:28 pm

If I've miscast these programs, it's only because of my limited knowledge of them--and I apologize, if that's the case. The first thing I think of is The Pickup Artist, whose maestro of the female mind is named Mystery and wears a large black furry fedora. In this show, the focus was less on making the guys "less dorky" and more self-confident and more on fooling the women.

And while I didn't specifically post on it, the patriarchy is just as harmful to men as it is to women. Fillyjonk on Kate Harding's blog Shapely Prose wrote, "...consider this: patriarchy thinks you're f---ing stupid. It thinks you’re a penis without a brain that’s worthwhile and powerful only because women are vaginas without brains and that’s somehow worse. It thinks you’re untrustworthy, that you can’t be left alone with a woman, that you can’t be left alone with a child. Feminists didn’t make that $#%^ up — they’re just noting it and passing it on. You can decide what you want to do about it — but don’t think you can pick and choose which of patriarchy’s mandates apply to you. This is a package deal, my friend. If women’s worth is only in f---ability, then men are just dumb f---ers. We think better of men. Do you?"

I would also like to point out that the National Organization for Women, the organization of which Betty Friedan served as first president, argued to the Supreme Court of the United States that our male-only draft discriminated against men. It's funny that you seem to be using Betty's name as an insult, when the organization so closely tied to her name has lobbied for MASCULINE equality as well.

And I would argue that masculinity is safer (but not necessarily safe) from ridicule than femininity is. For women, social acceptability is meekness, politeness, strength in silence and suffering. For men, it's arrogance, physical strength, charisma and sexual conquest. Neither are fair, both are damaging, but one leads to victimization far more frequently. Harriet Jacobs wrote, "People wonder why women don’t 'fight back,' but they don’t wonder about it when women back down in arguments, are interrupted, purposefully lower and modulate their voices to express less emotion, make obvious signals that they are uninterested in conversation or being in closer physical proximity and are ignored. They don’t wonder about all those daily social interactions in which women are quieter, ignored, or invisible, because those social interactions seem normal. They seem normal to women, and they seem normal to men, because we were all raised in the same cultural pond, drinking the same Kool-Aid.

"And then, all of a sudden, when women are raped, all these natural and invisible social interactions become evidence that the woman wasn’t truly raped. Because she didn’t fight back, or yell loudly, or run, or kick, or punch. She let him into her room when it was obvious what he wanted. She flirted with him, she kissed him. She stopped saying no, after a while.

"These rules for social interactions that women are taught to obey are more than grease for the patriarchy wheel. Women are taught both that these rules will protect them, and that disobeying these rules results in punishment."

(http://fugitivus.wordpress.com/2009/06/ ... ut-rape-3/)
(http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2 ... s-men-too/)
(http://kateharding.net/2009/10/14/have- ... g-so-sexy/)
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