Had my first therapy session today!

Orion, thank you for your confidence in me. For whatever reason, I don't question your genuineness of the statement. I am sorry to hear about your dad and his verbal abuse. He seems to have been quite the character in your childhood between those apparent love talks with you and his fooling around on your mom. My step dad was verbally abusive as well, so I do understand some of the emotionality that comes out of it. Estoy agradecida.

Back to Wisdom. I am glad I reread your message to me because it seems you changed it after I replied. But all you added (that I saw) was ...

what he should be thinking….wow, this girl is attractive. From where I sit my desires for her are likely be outrageously strong at times in this process. I need to keep my pants on here because that’s the right thing to do and in her very best interest. We can fantasize, transfer, counter transfer a ton of stuff, and all that will be very helpful to her, but in reality we can never ever touch. This is going to be a challenge for me. Since my temptation to be physical will be considerable I should have back up / peer level supervision to be sure I keep my head on straight here. This could be a stressful case for me because we are going to be incredibly close and I need to keep one foot on the dock as I put one foot in the canoe with her. If she is as inter-personally sensitive as I'm sure she is, she will be able to influence me greatly and bring out any of my own, perhaps deeply unresolved, issues. I better have another pro in the background to vent to, and to bounce things off, particularly if (as?) I become 100% obsessed and absorbed with her..

My typical natural ability to read people, even over the interwebz, is apparently on the fritz. I cannot for the life of me figure out how you feel about this man. You seem to think he is just using a lot of projective identification and countertransference which is more typical of a therapy session, right? I've never had a session before but from what I gather, many professionals use these tools as a means of making me "understand" my own actions by displaying them back to me. But at the same time you say things like the above. The above statement, if truly how he would be thinking, is not professional and would end up being a conflict of interest. If he ends up more interested in sleeping with me or infatuated by me, won't he be less useful? Less impartial?

It doesn't help at all that we're the only people in the building at the time of our sessions, does it? Its a smaller practice with a few therapists but they have more than one location. Apparently during our times everyone else is at another location because it was only him and I. No receptionist or anything. And how about his poor handshake? At the end, after I said my one-liner to throw him off, his hand shake was very loose and not firm at all. Generally people with a loose handshake are considered to have lower self confidence.

So tell me Wisdom, am I wasting my time or is my paranoia setting one click too high?

am I wasting my time or is my paranoia setting one click too high?

SansStars -

Its good you are going to therapy.

Why are you going to therapy? To improve yourself OR to judge the therapist OR to find out how the therapist judges you?

If you are going to therapy to improve yourself, then this thread and all its contributors (including yourself) have side-tracked it along a completely different direction.

If you are going to therapy to either judge the therapist or to find out how you are judged, then you have fallen into your all too familiar "game" and drama template that you seek out in relationships. Now, whether your therapist falls into the trap of this drama is too early to judge. At this point, he is probably testing out the waters and is therefore tentative, which is normal to expect of him. To be judgemental of him (to either idealise him or to completely trash him), or to expect him to be judgemental of you (either to boost your ego or to validate your helplessness), at such an early stage, is nothing but seeking drama where none exists, and laying the groundwork for drama to come, based on paranoia, mistrust and assumptions.

My suggestion to you, would be to seek yourself in therapy, and not seek the therapist or his judgement.

I don't know if your therapist has laid down firm guidelines, boundaries and expectations to start with. If he hasn't, he should, and the next time you meet him, ask for those. Without these, both he and you are merely wasting time and money.

(My apologies If my post sounds rude and boring )

SanStars,

Sorry about the confusion around the addition. I was re reading my post (apparently while you were composing your response), noted a typo and went in to correct that. As I re read that paragraph I felt I needed to add the two additional sentences in an overall effort for you to see conducting good therapy is actually very mentally /emotionally demanding. Your therapist is human. I was trying to generate a tiny bit of empathy and positive regard in you for your therapist. And, to let you know you will have a large impact on him. (Responding to your thought "I’m telling him I have an arm cut off and he thinks it’s just a paper cut.")

Your therapist is not going to just drift off to sleep during your sessions and occasionally wake up and robotically / mindlessly say (clueless to what you have just, with great emotional effort, poured out in depth to him) things like …”so how did you feel about all that?”

With zero evidence your guy is engaged in malpractice I have nearly zero concern that he would violate professional / physical boundaries. He is well aware of the “dynamics” of psychotherapy and his own training and supervision will have amply addressed all of that in great detail. So, yes I’d agree your paranoia dial may be inched up too high. If I helped ignite paranoia in you over your therapy, I’m deeply sorry about that. Didn’t mean to at all. On the contrary, I want you to trust the process and really open up in there.

Your therapist has undoubtedly read a ton of material on counter transference and its highly likely some of those readings were clinical textbooks by the famous Glen O. Gabbard, MD. Books like:

• Boundaries and Boundary Violations in Psychoanalysis
• Cognitive neuroscience and transference
• Countertransference: the emerging common ground
• Long-term Psychodynamic Psychotherapy: A Basic Text

Transference and boundaries are well-charted territory on the therapist’s side. Gabbard is a great writer. For example, here are a few quotes:

Glen O. Gabbard, MD wrote:Most patients find that the most difficult thing about the therapeutic process is going where they need to go to truly understand themselves. Intensive psychotherapy takes you to the darkest corners of the psyche where you really don't want to go. Hence patients tend to fight off the help of the therapist because they feel a tremendous sense of vulnerability involved with unmasking their self-deception and carefully crafted defenses to look at who they really are.

As you hunt around your psyche it’s likely your “paranoid ideation” and other defenses will surface to chase you away from peering into those dark psychic corners. You are going to have an emo reaction to all that searching, and some of it is going to “splatter” out, on to your therapist. This is actually very helpful to him.

Even though you feel like you “poured things right out” on the table providing ample input for your therapist, Gabbard would train him to hang back and gather ample evidence before mirroring any “hypothetical analysis point” back to you for your consideration.

Here’s his Gabbard advice, likely internalized by your therapist in his training and experience:

Glen O. Gabbard, MD wrote:Most therapists prematurely jump to conclusions about what's going on with the patient. Most of these conclusions derive from preformed theoretical and conceptual models that may or may not fit the patient. Therapists should be generating hypotheses without verbalizing them while marshaling evidence to support the hypotheses before formulating an explanation of the patient's fantasies, symptoms, or behavior.

Source for above two Gabbard quotes were a Q&A in Psychology Today: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/in-therapy/200812/seven-questions-glen-o-gabbard

So perhaps the wimpy handshake, wirey smile, and confused, bemused look on the face were simply “hanging back.”

SanStars wrote: You seem to think he is just using a lot of projective identification and countertransference which is more typical of a therapy session, right?

He would be trying hard to 1. Read what you are projecting onto him (i.e. stuff from you, having really nothing to do with him, a blank slate) and 2. not project himself on you, morally judge you, etc. 3. build hypothesis of what’s going on and before revealing them get sufficient evidence, then formulate a way to bring that all up to you in a way that doesn’t overly ring your “I'm too vulnerable!" alarm.

Projecting / transference are things you emit out. Counter transference is how he feels, complete with any baggage he is internally carrying from his own life, mixing in him, being felt by him, and in the worse case, being sent back to you judging. He will try to avoid doing that.

Because he is “marshaling evidence” to support internal working hypothesis, you are likely to initially think things are moving slow, he isn’t doing much, he’s not being very helpful. Sort of, “he’s being a wimp and not laying it on the line for me…” Try to resist thinking that too much, or if you do by all means talk to him directly about it.

Projective identification is complex (a full book or more, really) so I’ll just say, no he is not using mystical, magic, or any type of subliminal manipulation techniques on you to “get to you”. Again, I’d agree with you that your paranoia dial is up too much. On the contrary, everything he concludes and wants to “bring to your attention” will be very visible, totally above board, in the full visibility of your very conscious self-realization. Therefore, no need whatsoever to worry about your strings being yanked in the background.

SanStars wrote:If he ends up infatuated by me or interested in sleeping with me, won't he be less useful… less impartial? …not professional…a conflict of interest.

Yes, were he to go crazy with infatuation for you, develop a “fatal attraction” to you, become possessive, cross all professional boundaries and become physical with you he would loose all his effectiveness as a psychotherapist. On some level a seduction “success” like that would be the ultimate temporary validation, a total “narcotic high” -- a man driven so delirious with desire for a woman he was willing to throw away his entire career just to posses her. However, in the end would just be total destruction. The narcotic peak can’t be maintained, and an entire professional career goes up in smoke.

Therapists understand that. The chance of it actually happening is nil. You are paying a professional and the physical boundary is very well understood – don’t get physical.

How emotionally close to get is a bit less well bounded. He is dependable and able to help you (in fair exchange for your financial compensation back to him). Since this is an expensive process you don’t want to become wholly dependent on him “forever”. You establish goals, work together to implement the changes that you have chosen for yourself. Remember you are the boss, he is the hired gun. In the hypothesis process you discard what you don’t want, integrate what you do, and you hopefully emerge a happier, better-integrated person, no longer needing your therapist.

Initially I found a post here a bit harsh. Later I saw the benefit and reasoning behind it.

searchfortruthhg wrote:...an all to familiar game and drama template that you seek out in relationships...to be judgmental of him (to either idealize him or to completely trash him), or to expect him to be judgmental of you (either to boost your ego or to validate your helplessness), at such an early stage, is nothing but seeking drama where none exists, and laying the groundwork for drama to come.

***

The reason I found it harsh was because [quoting Gabbard above] “they feel a tremendous sense of vulnerability involved with unmasking their self-deception and carefully crafted defense”. And all that is 100% normal!

The “drama template that you seek out in relationships” is the same as the HPD maladaptive pattern, i.e. merely symptoms. O.K., all that’s acknowledged so no real break through there. What might be instructive however is to realized that the HPD pattern is really just a carefully crafted defense.

Unraveling that in therapy will take trust, openness to vulnerability, etc. As you feel that vulnerability you will want to “defend.” To the extent you can directly break through those defenses (i.e. using drama, seduction, attention getting, whatever…) you can get at the underlying issues causing that.. Your projections on to your therapist (and his later interpretations and mirroring for you) will be very helpful to allow you to cross that chasm.

searchfortruthhg wrote:My suggestion to you, would be to seek yourself in therapy, and not seek the therapist or his judgment

I partly agree. The objective is absolutely to “seek yourself in therapy, and not seek the therapist”. Total agreement with the end game – seek yourself. Also agree you should not “defend” by hunting down your therapist.

However I’d add that the goal of “finding yourself” in therapy is accomplished through intense, honest interaction with your therapist. If drama is your style, laying that all on him, telling him like it is, “splattering all over him”, projecting fragments of yourself on to him, delving into all internal fear and conflict, etc. and having him help you put the fragments you find with him together to a more cohesive you is all part of the process.

Yikes I better get back to "the real word" ...many duties & demands beckon

searchfortruth wrote:
SansStars -

Its good you are going to therapy.
Why are you going to therapy? To improve yourself OR to judge the therapist OR to find out how the therapist judges you?
If you are going to therapy to improve yourself, then this thread and all its contributors (including yourself) have side-tracked it along a completely different direction.

In the spirit of being honest, lets see how much ego strength I can show for Wisdom. I went as a means to an end. I went in order to be referred to a psychiatrist. I haven't said that to this guy, but a lot of my motives were that. One of my biggest fears is he's going to think I'm "normal" or think I have something I don't. Like, with his lower level of education, he may not be able to recognize what's going on with me. I don't doubt he's a very intelligent man, but maybe not enough to be what I need. That's not a knock at him.. no one can be well versed in everything. I want to know whats wrong with me. I want to know if it's truly HPD or BPD or hell, sometimes, AsPD. In my own mind I need to know what it is in order to cope, or not cope. I told the guy I'm not sure how much of that aspect I wanted to change. I'm not 100% ready but that maybe I'd be more open after a bit. The other reason I wanted to go was for a lot of depression I feel. My mood shifts have become more frequent and drastic. I hate having days where I just feel mopey. I don't want to do things, eat things, and just general blah. I went, I guess, for some self understanding.

searchforthruth wrote:(My apologies If my post sounds rude and boring )

Oh Searchy... What ever happened to the man who thought I should sell the rights to my life and make a movie?

Wisdom wrote:As I re read that paragraph I felt I needed to add the two additional sentences in an overall effort for you to see conducting good therapy is actually very mentally /emotionally demanding. Your therapist is human. I was trying to generate a tiny bit of empathy and positive regard in you for your therapist. And, to let you know you will have a large impact on him. (Responding to your thought "I’m telling him I have an arm cut off and he thinks it’s just a paper cut.")

Empathy for him by telling me he will have to have a sounding board when done with me and someone to peer-level supervise? I don't understand. I suppose the problem is that I always do that to men. I always chase the ones with the most to lose because once I've won them, it means more than someone who had nothing to begin with. The men who are married, taken, hold higher powers... I can feel like, "Wow. You risked alll that to have ME." You made it sound like that would be a struggle for this guy, too, and that worried me. I will dial back the paranoia and try to see his intentions more clearly.

I didn't mean to say that counter transference is a normal occurrence. I'm blonde and sometimes it gets the best of me. Kidding. Obviously I would hope he would not be placing his own emotions back onto me. I understand a lot of your intentions in this post and I will try to keep them in mind as I deal with this guy. I will try to not be so critical of him or his actions- but that will be difficult given that so much of a conversation is non-verbal. I love body language and everything relating to it. It's so fascinating. I've even learned to use my own to make people believe things. Like, when he asks me about something, I will look down, put my head down.. maybe a "nervous" laugh. People view that as shame or embarrassment. But really I don't have shame and I'm not embarrassed by my actions- I just know what I'm suppose to feel in a given situation and can portray my body into giving off those signals as well. Less conflicting words with actions makes me a much more effective manipulator.

Anyway, I'll end here because these long winded exchanges are going to get you in trouble! Have fun in the 3d world and thank you again for your time in my 2d one. You've really helped me try to decipher certain things.

Was in an entirely different research area (driven by some discussion with realitycheque over on the topic HPD double standard / empathy deficit - looking at heavy duty Psychoanalysis and Neurobiology stuff and particularly - some very intense work by Allan Schore and linked through one of his millions of references to a very current article (Shedler 2010) that shows very conclusive evidence that psychodynamic (i.e. more or less "classic") psychotherapy is highly effective.

In that article Shedler has a way cool itemized list of what defines mental health. Basically to have outstanding mental health you need everything on his list. What I do below is present that list broken down into my own personal conception of what the HPD pattern is, in terms of where the disorder strikes its blow. HPD is just a cluster of common symptoms that are filtered out from a large group of people diagnosed with HPD, and each individual is however very unique, expresses only some of the HPD patternsis, expresses in other ways outside of the HPD cluster, etc. Would be curious however if you generally agree or disagree with my very subjective, seat of the pants breakdown here for all HPDs in general?

Was also looking at this as a tool that HPDers seeking therapy might better communicate to their therapists "this is what I want changed / these are my goals" perhaps brainstorming off this list.

When I first sorted the list I noted, wow HPD really only hits a few, rather narrow areas, the bulk of the items on the list are not really issues. In fact some classic HPD traits are actually positive, not negative, and therefore actually contribute to overall mental health.

Generally Very Good

• Is psychologically insightful; is able to understand self and others in subtle and sophisticated ways.
• Tends to be energetic and outgoing.
• Is articulate; can express self well in words.
• Appears comfortable and at ease in social situations.
• Appreciates and responds to humor.
• Is able to use his/her talents, abilities, and energy effectively and productively.
• Generally finds contentment and happiness in life’s activities.
• Enjoys challenges; takes pleasure in accomplishing things.
• Is creative; is able to see things or approach problems in novel ways.
• Is able to find meaning and satisfaction in the pursuit of long-term goals and ambitions.

Don’t know

• Is able to form close and lasting friendships characterized by mutual support and sharing of experiences.
• Has an active and satisfying sex life.
• Is able to find meaning and fulfillment in guiding, mentoring, or nurturing others.
• Is able to assert him/herself effectively and appropriately when necessary.
• Appears to have come to terms with painful experiences from the past; has found meaning in and grown from such experiences.
• Has moral and ethical standards and strives to live up to them.
• Has the capacity to recognize alternative viewpoints, even in matters that stir up strong feelings.
• Tends to be conscientious and responsible. [vs carefree and impulsive]
• Finds meaning in belonging and contributing to a larger community (e.g., organization, church, neighborhood).

Generally Weak

• Is capable of sustaining a meaningful love relationship characterized by genuine intimacy and caring
• Is empathic; is sensitive and responsive to other people’s needs and feelings.
• Is capable of hearing information that is emotionally threatening (i.e., that challenges cherished beliefs, perceptions, and self-perceptions) and can use and benefit from it.
• Tends to express affect appropriate in quality and intensity to the situation at hand.

Source: The Efficacy of Psychodynamic Psychotherapy
Jonathan Shedler
American Psychologist
Feb-Mar 2010
American Psychologist
http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releas ... edler.pdf'

For more insight on "what therapy is like" see, in the above article, the Seven Features section starting on page 2. (rest of article is very dense and esoteric). I'm trying to make therapy less mysterious to people who might be considering it, and trying to send them in all set to go, hoping they see positive results just as soon as possible.

Evening Wisdom! I'm sitting here rereading this (or rather reading it ALL for the first time. I warned you about my attention span ) I'm not working tonight and can't seem to sleep- another newer ongoing issue I have.

wisdom wrote:What I do below is present that list broken down into my own personal conception of what the HPD pattern is, in terms of where the disorder strikes its blow. HPD is just a cluster of common symptoms that are filtered out from a large group of people diagnosed with HPD, and each individual is however very unique, expresses only some of the HPD patternsis, expresses in other ways outside of the HPD cluster, etc. Would be curious however if you generally agree or disagree with my very subjective, seat of the pants breakdown here for all HPDs in general?

When I first sorted the list I noted, wow HPD really only hits a few, rather narrow areas, the bulk of the items on the list are not really issues. In fact some classic HPD traits are actually positive, not negative, and therefore actually contribute to overall mental health.

Interesting list. I'll be happy to put where I feel like I fall into with each of these. Keep in mind I'm not so sure HPD is my exact diagnosis. You were very right to point me towards the BPD side.

Generally Very Good

• Is psychologically insightful; is able to understand self and others in subtle and sophisticated ways. Yes. I feel like I can understand me and have a good understanding of others, even when they don't see things within themselves.
• Tends to be energetic and outgoing. On the outside
• Is articulate; can express self well in words. Yes.
• Appears comfortable and at ease in social situations. On the outside
• Appreciates and responds to humor. Yep
• Is able to use his/her talents, abilities, and energy effectively and productively. I don't think I'd call what I do productive.
• Generally finds contentment and happiness in life’s activities. No
• Enjoys challenges; takes pleasure in accomplishing things. Only when it comes to men. Otherwise I'm not interested if it's too hard.
• Is creative; is able to see things or approach problems in novel ways. Thinking outside the box, essentially? Yeah.
• Is able to find meaning and satisfaction in the pursuit of long-term goals and ambitions. Not really.

Don’t know

• Is able to form close and lasting friendships characterized by mutual support and sharing of experiences. Hmmm.. Well I've been with my husband for 10 years but otherwise, no. No long term friendships, etc.
• Has an active and satisfying sex life. Does that count if it's with more than one man in a given time span? If not, then no.
• Is able to find meaning and fulfillment in guiding, mentoring, or nurturing others. I do enjoy making sure my patients are well taken care of... most of them. I sometimes start to feel "fuzzy" or withdrawn from some of them and don't do as much as I could. Not that I neglect anyone, I have too much guilt for that. (My therapist did teach me the difference between guilt and remorse. He says I have a lot of unhealthy guilt.)
• Is able to assert him/herself effectively and appropriately when necessary. Sure I assert myself! Is it appropriate? Probably not always.
• Appears to have come to terms with painful experiences from the past; has found meaning in and grown from such experiences. Not at all.
• Has moral and ethical standards and strives to live up to them. LOL!!! No.
• Has the capacity to recognize alternative viewpoints, even in matters that stir up strong feelings. That I do.
• Tends to be conscientious and responsible. [vs carefree and impulsive] Sometimes. This goes back to guilt. I do things most times (Except in my relationships with men) that I don't want to do. They are the "responsible" thing to do and I do it solely because I would feel guilt otherwise.
• Finds meaning in belonging and contributing to a larger community (e.g., organization, church, neighborhood). Nope. That would involve lots of people and lately I've felt a lot like people annoy me. They're generally unintelligent and bothersome.

Generally Weak

• Is capable of sustaining a meaningful love relationship characterized by genuine intimacy and caring. I would say yes but I bet Searchy would jump back in and tell me my reasoning is still flawed.
• Is empathic; is sensitive and responsive to other people’s needs and feelings. Nah.
• Is capable of hearing information that is emotionally threatening (i.e., that challenges cherished beliefs, perceptions, and self-perceptions) and can use and benefit from it. Can anyone do this?
• Tends to express affect appropriate in quality and intensity to the situation at hand. Nope.

Source: The Efficacy of Psychodynamic Psychotherapy
Jonathan Shedler
American Psychologist
Feb-Mar 2010
American Psychologist
http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releas ... edler.pdf'

Your link is broken! I did actually try to click it. Do my answers help at all? What do you think, Wisdom?

I go back to see my therapist this afternoon. (Weds) We'll see how it plays out. I have yet to decide how exactly I'm going to address how I've been feeling this last week.

SansStars wrote:
Source: The Efficacy of Psychodynamic Psychotherapy
Jonathan Shedler
American Psychologist
Feb-Mar 2010
http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releas ... edler.pdf'

Your link is broken! I did actually try to click it. Do my answers help at all? What do you think, Wisdom?

Hi SansStars,

Hope your therapy session today was emo to the max, every dark corner entered, and you splattered fragments of your personality all over the therapist like paint flung from a brush with no care or concern for how the droplets spewed all over the place on the way out. Lets face it, therapy is sometimes a random, messy business....

Then look at the splatter - a Monet, or a van Gogh? What's in there?

This link for The Efficacy of Psychodynamic Psychotherapy still works on my end. Sorry you are having trouble.
http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/amp-65-2-shedler.pdf

Yes, I got a ton out of your great feedback on "the list." Thanks! Would love other HPDs take on it to see if there are consistent patterns?

Can't wait to hear feedback on the therapy today, so if you can "reverberate" on it and really express it, by all means do tell!

And what do my answers say about me? C'mon. I'm not giving out info for no return here LOL

Therapy was good today. The hour FLEW. I couldn't believe when he said it was time to go. But, in true SansStars form, I left him wanting more. I told him that he was one of the things this last week that I wanted to talk about as well as a few others. We started with the others and didn't get to him. He made sure to tell me he wanted me to remember to tell him next week and he was going to make a note to ask because he wanted to know. LOL. That spark of interest in his actions and words to know what I thought.

He also recommended I go see my PCP for some mood stabilizers. I figured that was coming- no surprise.

SansStars,

Was hoping to get an update on how therapy was going? I hope it's both intense and productive!

SansStars wrote:I told him that he was one of the things this last week that I wanted to talk about as well as a few others. ...He made sure to tell me he wanted me to remember to tell him next week and he was going to make a note to ask because he wanted to know.

Him being a blank slate and you writing on that ("transference") is the essence of moving forward. You then both look at what's on that blank slate (the magic secret entry points to your unconscious - stuff that's hidden, repressed).

Hope its going well. Know its not easy but hope it brings lots of relief. Everyone here is cheering for you making the effort & for your ultimate happiness.

Honestly, I don't really know how it's going. I'm still going once a week I just don't feel like I'm getting much from it. I feel like I just go and talk about the other guy I'm currently seeing and my relationship with him and his son. Like seriously, how many sessions can we have were I just tell him about my week? Where's all the delving into what stuff means and repressions? No real childhood anything from him, no questions.. I just don't know. I feel like I'm saying the same stuff over and over. I'm kind of at a point where I don't want to keep going. Like thinking about it kind of frustrates me and gives me that desire to withdraw. I tell the same things to him as I do my one friend and don't feel like I'm getting anything back so why keep going?

He doesn't think I have a PD. He thinks I just can't regulate my emotions.. That I'm "not splitting my husband black and white! I'm just not regulating him properly and then I am."

There's still so much he doesn't understand about me (like my low self esteem and fears that everyone is lying/abandoning me). He doesn't know because he doesn't ask anything to bring that out. I've tried to tell him some of it but he seriously told me that he thinks I'm more afraid of the fear of abandonment than the actual abandonment. That if I ended up not being with my husband anymore I'd be ok. I laughed at him. Sure, maybe. But only if I had the other guy. I could never, never leave my husband to be alone. I'd never make it alone.

Oh, and Wisdom... I thought of you 2 weeks ago when he came and sat with me on the love seat and fell into me My feet don't touch when I'm sitting on it (I'm short- 5'4'') and he wanted to "see if his feet touch". He got up to test it but sat back down when better judgement hit him.. but I patted the seat next to me for him to come on over. I laughed thinking of you and your warning to not sit on his lap. He stayed with me with his leg crossed into me for a bit and then finally moved back to his own chair. It was super counter phobic. I wanted it and wanted him to do it, but when he did it, it seriously made me uncomfortable.

So that sums it up for me for now. Thoughts?

Ppsshh.... Mood Disorder.

- Sans