Alter shaved host...wtheck...

While my son was conferencing with Alex (main alter-who usually is aware of everyone else) Yang (female alter) came out. She has said she lies/manipulates - but has never pulled any pranks. I had just spoken to her and her conjoined sister Yin - the night before. I showed them the half-moon and told them it made me think of them. White/black. Half/half. They expressed feeling ignored inside their home and by me.

I explained I was just trying to leave people alone..I am always here when asked for, and I ask how they are doing, but I don't try to force anyone to come 'out'... I made a point to say I would talk to my son about spending more time with them inside and we could do something together this weekend. I thought it was good...they knew I was thinking of them...

Well..Yang has a crush on Ryu (host) and is jealous of his girlfriend who he was going to see last night.

Yang came out and basically shaved him totally bald. I mean, to the skin with a razor bald...sideburns, facial hair, hair, even his eyebrows. He looks like a cancer patient. he loved his hair. He had thick, curly, hair.

What the heck?!

She told my daughter "never make someone jealous..that' smy advice to you" and then she cut holes in a paper bag and put a bag on his head. she locked him out until she was ready for the 'reveal'.

He has never been 'locked' from coming out.
He is so depressed.
School starts in two weeks...I don't think his eyebrows will be back by then.

I'm at a total loss. We've never dealt with any self-harm or pranks or anything before.
Alex asked me what I thougth he should do to punish her.
She won't talk to anyone about it.
Son thinks maybe part of it is that everyone is so upset when they come 'out' not being in their true forms - they want him to know what it's like not to recognize himself when he looks in a mirror. not to be his 'true' self. to take away something important from him - like the girls coming out and losing their long hair and/or breasts.

Total loss.
Anyone?

Hi Hope!

First thing's first: How old are these girls (Yang & Yin)?

I would start with saying not to punish Yang for what she did. It is her body too and while it was not what Ryu wanted and not for healthy reasons - punishing her for doing something that is not disruptive to bodily health may just cause it to escalate. And if not escalate - I imagine she is a teen or child? - she is trying to make a point which is definitely strong enough to not be ignored; so my tip would be to try to find out what she tried to make a point of in clearer terms (or alternately just more words to get her to vocalize more of it so she doesn't have to take it out on the body to make a point and make sure you or Ryu or whoever sees it) ever if it's difficult. Maybe give her a diary and tell her that you'd love it for her to write down her thoughts and that she could share them with you if she wanted to (which in the least gives her the option of putting into words some of her feelings)? Or if she's younger (or just prefers) that she could draw something about how she feels and, again, share that with you if she wants to? I'd give her other options to communicate so she didn't feel a need to do it in a way that Ryu finds as disruptive and uncomfortable as this. But these are just my thoughts - take from them what you will

Wish you luck and that both Ryu and she will find a more comfortable way of sharing the body!

- Nin

I have nothing useful to say but I thank you for posting this. It really isn't funny but it gave me a giggle and I REALLY needed it today!

I'm very sorry to hear about your son, especially with school coming up so soon, but I'm glad he seems to be thoughtful about this and handling it as well as possible (who wouldn't be depressed?).

lifelongthing gave some great advice, and I agree with the journal idea. Perhaps even see if she just wants someone to talk to more often, like maybe she'd like to have more time out with you doing girly things? I know that my boyfriend Mike tries to have a day where my little, Cassie, gets to be out from breakfast until after dinner. They'll do things like go to the park and play board games, and it helps her to not feel ignored and lets her do little kid things that she likes to do. You seem to be doing an excellent job of juggling all this though, so congratulations on that.

I also agree with the "no punishment" idea. Instead, I would try to have a talk with her, though I know you said she won't talk about it. Perhaps this needs to be a thing where you do most of the talking, and she can join in if she wants. Maybe even write a letter to her; you could have your son and Alex write one as well, that way all thoughts and feelings can be expressed and Yang can write a response letter if she ever wants to. Let her know how she affected your son, and that it was not the most appropriate response. However, also let her know that you understand where she's coming from, and that you only want to help her. Again, perhaps your son and Alex can either have a talk with her or write her letters so that she knows their thoughts and feelings on this as well. (Is your son also Ryu, or is Ryu just the host? I read it as Ryu being your son, so I'm sorry if I got it wrong ).

It sounds like Yang may also need a reality check. While it's ok for her to be jealous, she needs to realize that nothing she does will ever change the fact that she can never be with Ryu like a real girlfriend, and that he will always have a girlfriend (even if it's not the same one). It may be better to bring this up in therapy, or even have your son/Ryu tell her, but it seems like it's getting to the point where it needs to be said. Yang seems to need to realize that doing things that affect Ryu and/or his relationship with his girlfriend won't help her get what she wants and it's unacceptable behaviour. While it's her body as well, she needs to realize and respect that Ryu is the host and he has the right to pursue things such as girlfriends. It should be made clear that while Ryu is there for Yang and can/will love her (as one should love themselves), she cannot truly be with Ryu and has no right to try and sabotage any relationships that the body has.

As far as your son's idea of the girls being upset when they come out, maybe you all should talk about this possible issue and bring it up in therapy as well. Perhaps it would help the girls feel better if you got some cheap wigs for them to wear or something. Maybe they could draw what they're supposed to look like for you, so that they can at least feel better about other people knowing what they look like. Or they could even find pictures on the internet that are a close match to them. I know my alters do that sometimes, then they have me look at the picture they chose and go "See? That's me. That's how I'm supposed to look". Maybe having your son/Ryu see a drawing or a picture of what they're supposed to look like will make them feel better and more acknowledged as well. If Yang feels like there's an interest in her, perhaps she won't be so jealous of the girlfriend.

Again, I'm sorry to hear about this happening to your son, but on the bright side at least it is just hair. While it's a big deal now, it will grow back. One of my alters, L.C., was/is a cutter, and scars are a little bit more permanent than shaved hair. I do wish you the best of luck with this though, and I hope that a solution can be found for Yang.

Yang is the same age as my son. Alex (main alter/father figure) said he had put them 'to sleep a long time ago' and so even though they aged with my son, and are able to 'access memories as I do' (per Alex) they have not really shared any light to why/when they were created; why they had to be 'put to sleep' and are not actively included in inside-home life. They seem to choose (they being Yang and her conjoined twin Yin..yes, we realize it sound cliche) to isolate.

They have crushes on Ryu but where Yin realizes it 'can never be', Yang is jealous of his GF. They seem to withdraw vs allow comfort... Yin always apologizes/worries about her sister. Her sister always feels she is hated...and can't trust what anyone says because she, herself, is 'a liar'.

I'm appreciative to your advice...as I have not, as yet, had a chance to talk to anyone about this. Ryu (host) has said he's not letting ANYONE out if this is what they're going to do. I'm worried about the two Little's feelings on this as they were supposed to have time out with me t his weekend. but he is so upset, I have to think of him too.

**original identity trigger??**
Um....on that note...the person I have called my son for the past 7-8 years...I'm starting to wonder if he is an alter and the boy I started to raise - is buried in there. My son has been SO angry for so long...we'd tried meds and counseling and biofeedback and some of it made more sense when he was diagnosed Aspergers (the autistic spectrum symptoms...stimuli sensitivity, pressure, eye contact, etc) but now it's like what came first...does he have some autism...or is all of this oversensitivity, triggery-impulsive/irritableness... is it due to whatever happened that started this all?

I accept him how he is. Happy and funny. Angry and sad. But now I wonder if even those little glimpses of 'normalcy' or familiar happy child...is just someone who comes out now and then. I know technically everyone in the system is ALL my son..but there is this odd feeling of loss. Who is the 'original' and does this matter? wow...that makes me really sad right now. better get.

**original identity trigger??**
Um....on that note...the person I have called my son for the past 7-8 years...I'm starting to wonder if he is an alter and the boy I started to raise - is buried in there. My son has been SO angry for so long...we'd tried meds and counseling and biofeedback and some of it made more sense when he was diagnosed Aspergers (the autistic spectrum symptoms...stimuli sensitivity, pressure, eye contact, etc) but now it's like what came first...does he have some autism...or is all of this oversensitivity, triggery-impulsive/irritableness... is it due to whatever happened that started this all?

I accept him how he is. Happy and funny. Angry and sad. But now I wonder if even those little glimpses of 'normalcy' or familiar happy child...is just someone who comes out now and then. I know technically everyone in the system is ALL my son..but there is this odd feeling of loss. Who is the 'original' and does this matter? wow...that makes me really sad right now. better get.

I will get to the rest of your reply later, but for now I'll answer this one... I understand the grief, I've gone through it myself for myself. I don't know if Ryu is the host or the core or what he is, and neither can you unfortunately. The only one who can know that is him and/or his system. I don't think it matters what the theories say about the absence or presence of a core because a core means so many different things to different people and in the end the most important this is finding what you (them) as a whole are comfortable with - because it's with that feeling of security and comfort in the self that you (them) can work on going forward. Losing what little sense of self someone has left due to a theory they may or may not be cognizant of seems more disruptive than helpful, I'd think - so go with what he/them thinks. But of course you're going to think about it and wonder and yes, be upset - but your son is your son. All of them are your son. And when it feels like it's too much just try to remember that Ryu, being whatever part or original he is, cares for you. I've worked with kids with autism and I sometimes explain DID to people in similar terms as how autism is described (to some): the person you seek is in there. There might be a lot of reactions and you might not get through - but (s)he's there. In autism there's a lot of reactions (or non-reactions, as it were), in DID there are triggers and the like.. But the person, as a whole or as separate individuals? They're there. And from what I've read they care a lot about you. You're doing a great job, Hope - and it's okay to be upset sometimes.

Sorry this was so rambly. I've been very tired and triggered these last few days so my mind is kind of spinning.

- Nin

I don't have any advice. I'm just really sorry about all involved. That's so tough. Just ((Hugs if wanted)).

Thanks Nin - it's ok - I reread my own post and felt I was being rambly too. You have been such a constant in my life - so reliable for you and others in your system to communicate and advise me through everything this past few months - I really, really appreciate your whole team.

tomboy24 - great advice - not just on the punishment/journaling - but also letting them feel even more understood with the pics.... I'm definitely going to suggest these things! I'll let you all know how it turns out in the end...

and Snuff - you are appreciated as well! All thoughts are good thoughts... I was so scared I'd laugh when I saw him..if he hadn't looked so upset, I may have (just out of nervousness!) but anyway, I didn't feel offended at all!

Thank you for the post Borg - sometimes just a 'thinking of you' is all one needs to keep plodding ahead! Hugs back!!

Thanks Nin - it's ok - I reread my own post and felt I was being rambly too. You have been such a constant in my life - so reliable for you and others in your system to communicate and advise me through everything this past few months - I really, really appreciate your whole team.

Thank you very much, Hope - I/we really appreciate hearing that! Like we've said before, feel free to PM if there's anything we can do or help you with (and our offer to talk to Ryu's littles still stands of course!). And we look forward to your posts Just keep going and ((safe hugs)) if wanted!

HopeIsHere wrote: They seem to choose (they being Yang and her conjoined twin Yin..yes, we realize it sound cliche) to isolate.

Some people have groups of alters, some people have different "circles", some have them all together in the same "room", everyone's different. I know for me, I'm just starting to discover that I have a secondary "circle" of alters that are rarely fully "out" and that aren't usually consciously contacted. My "main circle" is made up of 6 alters (including me) and the "original core"; so I'm always aware of and can switch consciously with Kat, Rain, L.C., Ray, Lynn, and the original core, Cassie. (Although with Lynn being only 2 years old, conscious switching is still very rocky with her and I often get blocked out unintentionally). My "secondary circle" is made up of alters that don't surface often: Rebel, Kyra, Valera, Marie, and now possibly 2 twin boys, Damone and Dallas. "Hannibal" is either by himself somewhere out of my awareness, or there's another "circle" that I still don't know about yet. While it seems like my "secondary circle" has chosen to isolate themselves, it's simply because they're not needed as often as my "main circle" alters, at least not consciously. There could be reasons for why Yin and Yang have chosen to isolate; perhaps they didn't choose to at all, it could be for a functional reason. And then there's alters like Kat and L.C. who isolate themselves within the "circle". Kat has always felt out of place since she changed from being the abusive Kataki; she feels that she can't ever atone for her actions and that people will never view her the same way again. And L.C. is just antisocial and prefers to be alone most, if not all, the time. Maybe you could ask them why they seem to be so distant?

HopeIsHere wrote:They seem to withdraw vs allow comfort... Yin always apologizes/worries about her sister. Her sister always feels she is hated...and can't trust what anyone says because she, herself, is 'a liar'.

**possible trigger, structured roles, talk of violence**
Kat, my longest-existing alter, knows all about being hated, not just feeling like she is. She used to go by "Kataki" when she was abusive and violent (later we learned "Hannibal" had been manipulating her for the most part). She was always the one that people never wanted out, they didn't like her at all, they wanted her to "just go away", and she was always a "problem" that needed to be solved. Kat was used to being lied to and lying to people, no matter who they were; she was used to being betrayed; and she was used to no one caring about her or wanting to know her. It took a lot of work from my boyfriend Mike, but he was able to slowly work past that and get her to talk to him instead of exploding with violence. She hated him at first, even held a knife to his throat at one point, but he remained calm and non-threatening, and did things that he knew she wasn't used to. He asked about her, about her feelings and thoughts, about how old she was, what her favorite color was; just simple, getting-to-know you questions. Surprisingly some of the simplest ones made her stop and think because no one had ever asked her it before and so she'd never really thought about it. Of course, she thought that he had his reasons for trying to talk to her and thought it was all a trick of some sort, but instead of denying it or something, Mike told her that she had the right to think that. He told her that he knew he was a stranger, that just because he was dating me didn't mean that he was dating her; he told her that he didn't expect to be trusted, only to be treated civilly, and that he would in turn be civil to her. He also never tried to have any power or control over her, and never presented her with absolutes such as "you can never do this". Instead, he'd say, "I don't really like it, but let's talk about it and see if we can come up with something". With continuous interest and asking questions about her often (even if it was a "how is she" to me); with not trying to force her to trust him and letting her take her time; with perseverance and refusing to give up on her, Kat slowly began to trust him and started opening up more with him. He ended up proving himself to her so well by being consistent, that he even go to the point of asking her to be his girlfriend as well, and she said "yes".
**end trigger**

Short story long, just remember to never give up on anyone in the system. Be consistent in your words and actions; show them that you care and that you don't expect to be trusted without earning it. Eventually, they'll begin to doubt those "it's a trick" thoughts, and their reflexive reaction of keeping distance between themselves and others will start to not be as strong. It might be a long road; it might be such a welcome shock that the change will be immediate; but I believe it's possible for you to show Yang that you can be trusted and that she's cared about instead of hated. The others in the system could help as well; perhaps they could write her small letters of appreciation, even if it's just to ask how she's doing.

HopeIsHere wrote:I'm appreciative to your advice...as I have not, as yet, had a chance to talk to anyone about this. Ryu (host) has said he's not letting ANYONE out if this is what they're going to do. I'm worried about the two Little's feelings on this as they were supposed to have time out with me t his weekend. but he is so upset, I have to think of him too.

Perhaps the answer is not complete lock-down, but making a rule to where if you misbehave that seriously, you aren't allowed out for a certain amount of time, like being grounded. Yes, you do have to think of your son too, but he's also not the only one in that body/mind, and this is an obvious cry for attention. Denying everyone the ability to come out might make it worse; others in the system could start to become angry with Yang and they might start acting mean towards her, or it could end up making the whole system depressed, or it could cause feelings of unfairness with others wondering why they're being punished for something that they didn't do. Whatever your son chooses, make sure he thinks about it carefully before making a decision, especially for a complete lock-down.

HopeIsHere wrote:**original identity trigger??**
Um....on that note...the person I have called my son for the past 7-8 years...I'm starting to wonder if he is an alter and the boy I started to raise - is buried in there. My son has been SO angry for so long...we'd tried meds and counseling and biofeedback and some of it made more sense when he was diagnosed Aspergers (the autistic spectrum symptoms...stimuli sensitivity, pressure, eye contact, etc) but now it's like what came first...does he have some autism...or is all of this oversensitivity, triggery-impulsive/irritableness... is it due to whatever happened that started this all?

I accept him how he is. Happy and funny. Angry and sad. But now I wonder if even those little glimpses of 'normalcy' or familiar happy child...is just someone who comes out now and then. I know technically everyone in the system is ALL my son..but there is this odd feeling of loss. Who is the 'original' and does this matter? wow...that makes me really sad right now. better get.

Many people wonder about who the "original" is and it can cause much unneeded emotional distress. Unless it is helpful to know for therapy reasons, knowing who the "original" is doesn't really matter, or at least to me it doesn't. Because the "original" themselves are only a small piece to the whole puzzle. Every alter is a piece of the same person, and whoever was there first is only a piece of the same person as well. The pieces don't add up to create the "original", otherwise the "original" wouldn't be there. The "original" AND the pieces have to be put together in order to create the entire picture. Alters integrate WITH the "original", they don't integrate with each other and then create an "original".
I, myself, am an alter. I've been the host for about 11 years now, and sometimes I even wonder if the other alters are splits off of me instead of being splits off of the "original core", Cassie.

**possible trigger, talk of family death**
When our mom died, we were 10 years old. Cassie and I had already started to split a bit due to a messy separation that my mom and dad had gone through when we were 8 (which is why she's 8 now). After our mom's death, Cassie couldn't handle it. She couldn't move on. We spent the entire summer in our bedroom, rarely even getting out of our pajamas. As Kat likes to say, Cassie's still in that bedroom while I got up and shut that door once school started again.
**end trigger**

I was the part of Cassie that was able to "move on" with our life, and so I did. When I found out that I was an alter myself, it was very distressing to me, but now I can't really see why. I was having thoughts like, "I've been living a lie", "I'm not the original", "Who am I really?"; and I felt so lost, as if everything that I'd known was found out to be a lie. I even posted about it, if you want you can read it here: http://www.psychforums.com/dissociative-identity/topic74667.html But the truth is, it doesn't matter who the "original" is (unless, like I said, it helps with therapy). We're all parts of the same person, we are all the same person once you put us all together, and we all share the same body/mind. Everyone in there is your son. All the parts were there before, the only difference now is that they've developed separately. It's like cutting an apple. It's still the same apple whether it's left whole or cut into pieces around the core.