Dopamine, DID and Schizophrenia

*trigger warning for mentions of drug use*

Hi all,

as part of my ongoing quest to understand my brain, I wanted to share some thoughts and see if anyone relates. I have just posted in this thread

dissociative-identity/topic116168.html

some of my current thoughts on DID. So here is the rest of the thesis:

If we look at our selves (singular or plural) as semantic structures rather than fixed objects, it follows that DID is something a brain does when it is unable to represent the totality of a person's experience in one coherent self-model.

('Semantic structure' here means that what we experience as a self is really a model that the brain produces (similar to a computer program) in order to provide a reference point from which to relate different experiences. Our self-model, or subjectivity, is the point of reference from which all other bits of content in the brain (memory, experience) are related to each other into a coherent model of the world. Kind of like an algorhythm that tells a computer how to relate different bits of code to run a program. If the brain cannot do this, because experience is so contradictory that it cannot be integrated, the brain kind of gives up and says, ok then, I'll just produce two (or more) self-models based on two (or more ) versions of reality).

Now we know that much of 'mental illness' is to some degree related to the brain's ability to produce coherent semantic representations of reality going awry. In schizophrenia, for example, the brain's ability to produce and reproduce language is compromised - the semantic representation of reality breaks down and disintegrates and thus the person cannot accurately represent the outside world or their inner experience in relation to it ("language" here not just in the literal sense but in the sense that all thought is organised in linguistic structures - no language, no abstract thought).

so the difference between DID and schizophrenia could be that in DID, the brain produces strong and coherent semantic models (alters) that correspond to different appreciations of the outside world. In schizophrenia, on the other hand, the semantic coherence breaks down altogether.

the interesting thing is, schizophrenia, according to some researchers, is characterised by an excess of dopamine in the brain. Certain drugs that massively boost dopamine in the brain (such as cocaine) can temporarily induce schizophrenia-like symptoms in healthy subjects, such as semantic disintegration, paranoia and delusions.

I'm not sure about the dopamine factor in DID, but I know that I, personally, am frequently low on dopamine. Now here's the thing: I have also noticed that once I increase my dopamine levels (through drugs or supplements), my mental fragmentation (i.e. separateness from alters) becomes less.

So this leads me to think: what if there is some kind of continuum, the extreme points of which are DID and schizophrenia, that is mediated by dopamine? so:

low dopamine - rigid semantic structures that can appear difficult to dissolve (e.g. amnestic walls between alters, difficulty integrating different structures/alters)

high dopamine - fluid and 'soft' semantic structure with a tendency to completely disintegrate.

If there's anything to this then it may be possible to shift up and down the continuum by manipulating dopamine levels - i.e. where schizophrenia patients are usually treated with medication that lowers dopamine, DID could repsond to treatments that up dopamine, thus make the semantic structures that we experience as alters more permeable and facilitate integration.

*edit*

Very intruiging. But I guess the resulting question for me here is: would I take the dopamine to decrease the separateness from the DID? Would I, theoretically, cure myself of DID? Right now - no. PTSD/phobias/anxiety/depression yes. But not DID Though assuming DID is really affected by dopamine levels I would take just one tablet to see the effects! I'm up for experimenting with that

-B

oh, yes, of course I forgot to add that I don't mean anyone with DID should attempt integration - just if someone did then this may be a possible avenue (and here's proof that Gabriel and his science fetish hasn't gone anywhere

a relatively safe, legal and temporary way to tamper with dopamine are supplements like l-tyrosine or l-dopa (the latter can produce health problems with longer term use though).

I'm not sure my GP will allow me to just pick up a bunch of them for experimentation purposes but its an interesting thought anyway! All this talk is reminding me of my biopsychology classes. You'd have been a great person to have discussions with there!

As far as I know, in the case of schizophrenia, there is not enough dopamine in one area of the brain (causing "negative symptoms" like anhedonia, amotivation, asociality, etc.), in another too much (causing "positive symptoms" like hallucinations and delusions), and in another just enough (which is why people with schizophrenia don't have problems with movement unless they take medication).

@michiru, that's true - dopamine does about 100 different things at different places in the brain, so its hard to tell exactly what's what...

I came up with this because a friend of a relative's roommate's dog took some cocaine recently, which this person never does, and got the full effect of the schizophrenia-like symptoms, especially the breakdown of linguistic structure. The person actually had visual hallucinations in which thoughts appeared as written sentences and then broke up into single words and letters. It was quite interesting (and luckily short-lived).

Everyone's brain is different, so what works on one person might not work on another - hence I'm interested if anyone else has turned themselves into their own lab rat

I m on for experiments but need further info tho

Intrestin point of view!

michiru7422 wrote:As far as I know, in the case of schizophrenia, there is not enough dopamine in one area of the brain (causing "negative symptoms" like anhedonia, amotivation, asociality, etc.), in another too much (causing "positive symptoms" like hallucinations and delusions), and in another just enough (which is why people with schizophrenia don't have problems with movement unless they take medication).

I used to look through the criteria for schizophrenia with trepidation and concede that we definitely have experienced the full onslaught of negative symptoms over time (including a wide variety of hallucinations but obv. with reality testing still intact - hence negative as I understand it). The other shoe just never dropped. Luckily.

Interesting theory.
bring on the double blind trials

Please everyone remember that no one here is a doctor and to check with your doctor before starting any types of medications or supplements. No one here can know or take responsibility for the health of others and it's important to keep that in mind. Dopamine supplements are for instance not recommended to be taken with antidepressants and there may be interactions with other types of medications as well.

Very interesting topic You have so many complex and intriguing thoughts, you really do.

I'm not sure about the dopamine factor in DID, but I know that I, personally, am frequently low on dopamine.

Stupid question, but how do you get that tested?

On a different note, I do hope you continue to update on your integration. I'm really happy for you