Alters being gone when you're feeling good?

I've thought about this for some time now and I thought that I'd make an entry about it, hoping that someone else knows what I'm talking about and can relate to this.

A few years ago I was in a very bad mood and nothing was good at all. At the time, I was very aware of my alters and I was very co-conscious. Then, things slowly started to get better. When things were better, I wasn't co-conscious anymore (at least not as much) and I felt as if I had lost the connection to my alters and the system. I guess you could say that I felt pretty much like a singleton, that I was alone in the body and no one was there except me and everything.

That went on for a while and then things got bad again, it has been pretty much back and forth. What I've noticed is that, for me, I feel like I've had a lot more connection with my system and my alters when I haven't been feeling well, feeling dissociative, co-conscious and things like that. When I've been feeling good or at least better, it has pretty much gone away and I've been on my own.

Does anyone relate to this? Sometimes I miss my alters when I've been feeling good for some time, almost wishing for things to get worse just to get them back... not really but almost... For example now for quite some time I've been feeling good and I haven't had that much connection with my system (I'm trying to work on our communication being better though), but then something happened that triggered a lot and I immediately felt that they were really scared inside and I was co-conscious with someone.

Yes, I can relate to this. Other parts being 'out' more and me/us feeling bad or more unstable are definitely linked. Of course, systems are usually designed to handle 'bad stuff' so maybe when things are good they're not needed. When I would have a bad patch in the past I would fight against it and try to feel 'better' as soon as possible, which also meant suppressing them again.

Early on in therapy I had some remarkable periods of apparent blissful peace and quiet. I felt as if all was well. But in fact I was merely shutting off my awareness of my insiders and their concerns. They were not gone. They were still there, suppressed.

Suppression is like putting a bandage over a festering wound; it does not heal the wound and can delay proper treatment so long that the wound gets worse.

I wasn't aware of alters the last times I thought everything was good and I was feeling good, but it makes sense what the others have written about suppression. I've had times when I went into denial that anything had ever been bad, a lot of denial about things I had felt and my personal values etc. I generally refuse help during these times and get rid of any help I was getting, so probably have delayed my real recovery during these times. I hope now I'm aware of my alters I won't be able to deny them like this again, although peace as well as awareness for all of us would be nice.

Thanks to all of you who has replied so far, it's very interesting for me to hear about what you have to say, and it really makes me feel less lonely. I'm happy to hear that others relates to this and that it's not only me.

Owleyes wrote:Of course, systems are usually designed to handle 'bad stuff' so maybe when things are good they're not needed.

That's an interesting thought, and I think that what you're saying makes a lot of sense. I agree with you that maybe they're not needed when things are good, as there's nothing for them to do, I guess... they're supposed to help us survive and get through the hard times I guess, so when there are no hard times, what are they going to do?

I'm still wondering though, does anyone miss their system/alters when they're feeling better (in case the system/alters aren't there as much/at all when things are better/good)?

*sigh* I'm not the only one then There are days when I think I can't be multiple because I feel alone. The only way I've managed to make sense of this is that my therapist talks about times when everyone is working well together which is when I feel more 'normal' then other times,she also talks about it (my brain/self) being busy which is when I notice them around an awful lot. Hopefully one day I'll get to understand those times about us a lot more.

Little wrote:I'm still wondering though, does anyone miss their system/alters when they're feeling better (in case the system/alters aren't there as much/at all when things are better/good)?

My, I miss them terribly when they're gone, at times I feel so alone, there's no-one to talk to, make the decisions about which way we're going to go or what we're going to wear....we have to THINK for ourself! Yet sometimes it is also a relief when they're not around as there is peace and I feel 'normal' again, able to do the things I used to be able to do before like volunteering/babysitting, enjoying going to the shops or for a walk....I manage to get things done!

Then there are times everyone is always around and I wish they would go away, I just want to be 'normal' again and live the life I used to without everything being a marathon - having to think carefully about what to wear, eat, pack an activity or toy for littles etc. I wish the screaming would stop, threats would stop, constant questions, constant chatter, constant 'I want' 'buy this' 'I want to eat that' 'I don't like that' argh just thinking about it makes me feel frustrated with them. Then there are times like the last few days when they are all always around and I love them all so much and we're getting along that I hope they stay forever, a simple sewing task involved everyone - Hannah (5) ran for the scissors when we left them behind, Natasha (3) chose the colour, Princess (6) chose the design and the older ones did the ironing and sewing...it was such a lot of fun we want everyday to be like that (ignoring the tiredness and headache we now have lol)

Hi,

I'm experiencing something like this right now. I am doing very well, compared to the $#%^ I've been through over the winter, and there is no alter activity going on (that is, there is, but it is taking place in a sort of integrated fashion, i.e. yesterday I did 10 different things that would normally be ten different alter's activities, but without the switching).

This may be a contentious issue, but I am also beginning to doubt some of the popular interpretations of DID, based on my own experience. The textbook opinion seems to be that alters form in childhood, as a result of trauma, and can be dormant for a long time until they finally emerge later in life. Now the issue I have with that idea is that it treats alters (including the host) as kind of fixed objects, i.e. 'things' that somehow knock around your brain whether you are aware of them or not.

the thing is though, selves (singular or plural) are not 'things'. they are much more akin to zero points, perspectives, the centre to which all experience and memory points. kind of like the little swirl of water that forms in your sink when you let the water out is not a 'thing' but a function of the water.

these consciousness-swirls are related to memory function - basically, if you have one continuous narrative of your life, you will have one, more or less unified, self. If memory function is disrupted, like in DID, you end up with different perspectives based on different 'batches' of memories (i.e. alters).

The thing is, memory function can be influenced by a number of things, not just trauma. Memory e.g. is compromised in certain forms of depression, because the neurotransmitters that control memory function are too low. It could therefore well be the case that a person experiences more or less continuous memory at one point in their life and fragmented memory at another.

You say that your alters are gone when you feel better - it could be possible that you experience your alters when your memory function disintegrates due to depression (or some other chemical imbalance) and as soon as your brain recovers, your memory streams (and thus your alters) integrate.

It could also be something completely different of course - I just noticed that playing around with nerottransmitter levels (dopamine/serotonine) via drugs and supplements makes a massive difference to how fragmented I experience myself. I also know that this is not denial because I don't deny my alters are there, I just don't feel separate from them.

At the risk of saying something quite unpopular on here: I'm beginning to question the whole idea of 'denial' a bit. Of course it is entirely possible that a person who blatantly shares their body with others just refuses to acknowledge this fact. But what I have observed here a few times is that a subjective experience of getting better (like yours) was attributed to denial, as if a person could not possibly recover from DID without lenghty therapy (and I'm sure that's what therapists want us to believe, seeing as they cash 100 quid per hour...).

Behind this idea seems to be the assumption that once alters are there, they are there and if you don't experience them, you're pushing them away or are in denial. I don't think that that is necessarily the case. I think it is possible to go in and out of multiplicity (hell, I'm doing it) precisely because alters are not fixed objects but fluid and flexible semantic processes in the brain. that is, alters are how your brain makes sense of (for whatever reason) disjointed thoughts and feelings. Once your thoughts and feelings become consolidated, the brain doesn't have to use different selves to model experience.

So, when someone says that some days they don't feel like they are multiple, maybe that is because that day, they are not. everything is in flux...

For me, feeling "good" is merely a chronic feeling of: I'm okay, but I'm really really empty... is this all that life is? So, like Una said, me feeling good is simply me shutting everything inside out. I used to think that my alters just sort of went away sometimes but I don't think that's the case at all anymore. I just think *I* go away from them.

-B

tribeofone wrote:But what I have observed here a few times is that a subjective experience of getting better (like yours) was attributed to denial, as if a person could not possibly recover from DID without lenghty therapy (and I'm sure that's what therapists want us to believe, seeing as they cash 100 quid per hour...).

I am one of those who mentioned denial coming into play. So I guess I need to clarify something here. I do not attribute the subjective experience of health to denial. Its the other way around. What I have observed in myself is that when I have a subjective experience of singularity, I begin to doubt that I actually have DID or that I need any help. I minimize and dismiss and invalidate. I imagine I could just sweep all the DID phenomena including the alters under a mental rug all over again, as I have in the past, and get on with my life. But why should they stay hidden under the rug this time?

tribeofone wrote:Behind this idea seems to be the assumption that once alters are there, they are there and if you don't experience them, you're pushing them away or are in denial.

In my case this is not an assumption; this is what I experience. They are still in there, and they have continuity. I met Alter 1 and Alter 2 decades ago, then suppressed them (or so I thought), and in crisis there they were again, the same two entities. And in the meantime they had accumulated decades of life history and experience. They had been awake and using passive influence and communicating to me in rather covert ways.

There are other ways for alters to be "not there", but in my experience (both first hand, and as a witness to other systems) the most common one is that we thicken the walls around "our" mental compartment and shut them out of our conscious awareness. I say that as someone who has fused two alters; now when I am "alone" these fused alters remain. Their qualities and abilities remain available to me.

I am one of those who mentioned denial coming into play. So I guess I need to clarify something here. I do not attribute the subjective experience of health to denial. Its the other way around. What I have observed in myself is that when I have a subjective experience of singularity, I begin to doubt that I actually have DID or that I need any help. I minimize and dismiss and invalidate. I imagine I could just sweep all the DID phenomena including the alters under a mental rug all over again, as I have in the past, and get on with my life. But why should they stay hidden under the rug this time?

I didn't have you in mind so much with that as some discussions I remember from a while ago, e.g. one where a person got flamed off the board because they suggested that a member who experienced a temporary change in their perception may have improved rather than gone into denial (ok, the person was being obnoxious as well). Of course I cannot know whether anyone experiences improvement (if you want to call a move toward integration that) or denial. But neither can anyone else from the outside.

Just to play the devil's advocate here for a minute: how do you really tell the difference when someone has a subjective experience of "aloneness"? The person may have dissociated further, but they may also have moved closer to integration. But on here (that's my subjective perception) there seems to be a certain bias toward the former, i.e. people are more likely to attribute this feeling to denial than improvement. I'm not saying it cannot be that, just that we don't necessarily know. So e.g. when someone gets the doubts that you mentioned, it may well be that they're in denial, but it may also be that they really do need less help or that the DID is far enough in remission to not trouble them at that time. The only person who can tell for sure is themselves.

In my case this is not an assumption; this is what I experience. They are still in there, and they have continuity. I met Alter 1 and Alter 2 decades ago, then suppressed them (or so I thought), and in crisis there they were again, the same two entities. And in the meantime they had accumulated decades of life history and experience. They had been awake and using passive influence and communicating to me in rather covert ways.

I am in no position to comment on the contents of anyone's head but my own, but just for the sake of argument: if it is true that the self is a model that the brain constantly creates and re-creates and the same goes for multiple selves, then could it not be possible that something happens like:

a person walks around for decades with what they believe is a unified, singular self. unbeknownst to them, they are repressing certain memories associated with trauma. Now they come into a situation where the traumatic memories are triggered (e.g. because something reminds them of the original trauma) and come to the surface.

The brain in this scenario cannot reconcile the information based on the persons "normal" consciousness with the information based on the trauma memory. so it reacts by creating two disparate self-models based on either. the point is, in this scenario, the alter consciousness would be created at the time of triggering rather than being there in latent form.

of course that begs the question why alters would come with continuous memory and a personal history. I think it is possible that they draw on a latent memory bank that was previously inaccessible but not conscious. when the traumatic content is triggered, the subsequently created self-model has access to this history and thus experiences itself as a continuous narrative entity, even though in their dormant state they did not actually "exist" in that sense.

This idea is much less "far out there" considering that some researchers like Thomas Metzinger believe that the same goes for singular selves - when we are asleep or unconscious, the self does not actually exist but is re-activated upon waking and feels like it has continuous existence even though it technically doesn't.

Btw, I don't mean to infringe on anyone's experience with this stuff, I'm just genuinely interested.