moving on..

ontheway wrote:So I guess I need to ask myself why Im still obsessing about her.

Really? Six months of intense passionate sex will do that to a man, especially when it is done with the mirror image of himself. That six months was the closest you will ever come to making love to yourself. And, like you say, she was "incredible. Beautiful. Sexy. Stunning. Fun. Similar tastes. Humour. Everything." So don't beat yourself up over it. If a man is going to obsess over something, that experience is hard to surpass.

I'm wondering if there will EVER be a time when we can contact each other as "friends.''

Even after I had separated, and after I had obtained a divorce 18 months later, I still was unwilling to let go of my "friend" for another 8 months. There were two things that were most important to my decision to let go of the notion of friendship. One was my recognition -- hard won over a period of 15 years -- that, because my untreated very ill BPD was incapable of trusting me, I could never trust her. I realized that she could turn on me at any time.

The second was my realization that, at that point, she had been perceiving me to be abusive and a frequent liar for over two years -- something that for I had not imagined was possible. I had mistakenly thought that her projections of herself onto me would stop after a few days or weeks, as had been occurring for 15 years. The reality, however, is that an untreated BPD is likely to walk out at some point because her resentment grows stronger each year because the partner is unable to fix her or make her happy.

As I have reported on several other threads, a therapist who has treated many BPD couples says that BPD relationships typically last either 18 months or 15 years. They last 18 months, he explains, when the Non has strong personal boundaries. The Non enjoys the 6 month honeymoon period of mirroring and then is willing to spend up to a year trying to reestablish the honeymoon conditions. Then he bails.

The relationship lasts 15 years, he explains, when the Non has strong codependency traits and thus has low personal boundaries. Such a Non typically never bails. Instead, the BPD leaves him because, as the years go by, she becomes increasingly resentful of his inability to make her happy or fix her. Also, she may become increasingly fearful of abandonment. This explanation struck a strong chord with me because my relationship lasted 15 years.

I'm seeing some truth in this although at the same time there was 'sugar coating' going on at the start of the relationship

Sorry, I did not write that clearly. I did not mean to say she did not do sugar coating with you. That happens with all of us. Hence, what I was saying is that, while doing it, she is not trying to be malicious. Instead, she is only trying to be loved and trying to reduce her pain level.

Hey Normal? Thanks for your reply and most interesting article. Incidentally, I will be posting newer, more specific topics soon, so if you have any appropriate articles/links (from your 5,673) concerning these topics I will be very happy to have you post them for me.

Normal? wrote:I can't agree strongly enough with your difficulties here Ontheway. I too struggled horribly with the enormous abyss between who I thought my partner was and who he really is. It kept me going around and around in circles for months, having a mini-internal dialogue in my head. I would veer from rationalising /justifying or outright denying his behaviour (often triggered by him) to a more honest or 'factual' account of what had happened. My biggest issue came from the fact that I could never reconcile the two 'people' since they really were so very opposite.

My ex definitely has two personalities. When she needed sympathy, attention or was feeling down and in manipulative mode she has this incredibly child-like quality. Her voice would become more high-pitched and sound like a lost little girl. I believe this was one of her 'hooks' from the start. Being an impulsive/histrionic borderline she also displays extreme excitement/enthusiam/gaeity and this 'personality' is present then also. It is like a child's neediness. But her 'normal' personality is more 'serious'. (She is quite opinionated and intellectual). She commonly displays arrogance and sarcasm in this 'normal' mode. Of course anger isn't far away, should I disagree with her or criticise her. She has a very thin skin and doesnt take kindly to having fun poked at her.

So im beginning to understand 'cognitive dissonance' also and thanks for your insights into that. I remember a quote somewhere about 'Genius' being the ability to hold two conflicting viewpoints or opinions in your head at the same time. Maybe something along those lines.

Normal? wrote:Finally I remember reading something about mirroring once:- it stated that all those things you loved about your partner in the early months, the wonderful personality traits you observed and picked up on and so admired, all the characteristics that you so respected and cherished, well they are yours as well. They were mirrored. What you saw in her, others see in you (if that makes sense?). Just remember that Ontheway.

That quote really made my day Normal! How sweet of you, and, when I think about, how true! So, many thanks for that!

DowntownDC wrote:the BPD leaves him because, as the years go by, she becomes increasingly resentful of his inability to make her happy or fix her

Downtown, you are as insightful as ever. You have explained in a nutshell why my ex didn't want me anymore and why, as she says herself she 'Cant love me the way I want her to'. The beauty of knowing this is that it makes me realise that its not because of ME and its not about ME. Its about HER and the sad truth that NO-ONE can make her 'happy' or 'fix' her. So Thanks again, although Im still a little unsure about EVER being able to contact her again and whether its a good idea or not. Time will tell of course and I hope to have moved on by then. Its day 8 now and slowly getting stronger. This forum is almost my substitue for Facebook and MSN and Im very grateful for it. Thanks again people.

ontheway wrote:Hey Normal? Thanks for your reply and most interesting article. Incidentally, I will be posting newer, more specific topics soon, so if you have any appropriate articles/links (from your 5,673) concerning these topics I will be very happy to have you post them for me.

It is my pleasure Ontheway - my pleasure! I would love to share the articles when you have posted. It makes me feel as if I am doing something useful rather than wallowing?

ontheway wrote:My ex definitely has two personalities. When she needed sympathy, attention or was feeling down and in manipulative mode she has this incredibly child-like quality. Her voice would become more high-pitched and sound like a lost little girl. I believe this was one of her 'hooks' from the start. Being an impulsive/histrionic borderline she also displays extreme excitement/enthusiam/gaeity and this 'personality' is present then also. It is like a child's neediness. But her 'normal' personality is more 'serious'. (She is quite opinionated and intellectual). She commonly displays arrogance and sarcasm in this 'normal' mode. Of course anger isn't far away, should I disagree with her or criticise her. She has a very thin skin and doesnt take kindly to having fun poked at her.

You may want to read about the True and False selves - I think this is something more related to NPD but here is a littel snippet for you that may resonate given your description above. It is by Sam Vaknin (who is an ass at times and goes overboard - but he is speaking of Malignant Narcissism rather than BPD so you might want to ignore some of this!). Masterson also describes this but with more focus on BPD at http://www.mastersoninstitute.com/searchself.html and http://www.mhsanctuary.com/borderline/masterson.htm.

[i]Once formed and functioning, the False Self stifles the growth of the True Self and paralyses it. Henceforth, the True Self is virtually non-existent and plays no role (active or passive) in the conscious life of the narcissist. It is difficult to "resuscitate" it, even with psychotherapy.

This substitution is not only a question of alienation, as Horney observed. She said that because the Idealised (=False) Self sets impossible goals to the narcissist, the results are frustration and self hate which grow with every setback or failure. But the constant sadistic judgement, the self-berating, the suicidal ideation emanate from the narcissist's idealised, sadistic, Superego regardless of the existence or functioning of a False Self.

There is no conflict between the True Self and the False Self.

First, the True Self is much too weak to do battle with the overbearing False. Second, the False Self is adaptive (though maladaptive). It helps the True Self to cope with the world. Without the False Self, the True Self would be subjected to so much hurt that it will disintegrate. This happens to narcissists who go through a life crisis: their False Ego becomes dysfunctional and they experience a harrowing feeling of annulment.

The False Self has many functions. The two most important are:

It serves as a decoy, it "attracts the fire". It is a proxy for the True Self. It is tough as nails and can absorb any amount of pain, hurt and negative emotions. By inventing it, the child develops immunity to the indifference, manipulation, sadism, smothering, or exploitation - in short: to the abuse - inflicted on him by his parents (or by other Primary Objects in his life). It is a cloak, protecting him, rendering him invisible and omnipotent at the same time.

The False Self is misrepresented by the narcissist as his True Self. The narcissist is saying, in effect: "I am not who you think I am. I am someone else. I am this (False) Self. Therefore, I deserve a better, painless, more considerate treatment." The False Self, thus, is a contraption intended to alter other people's behaviour and attitude towards the narcissist.

These roles are crucial to survival and to the proper psychological functioning of the narcissist. The False Self is by far more important to the narcissist than his dilapidated, dysfunctional, True Self.

The two Selves are not part of a continuum, as the neo-Freudians postulated. Healthy people do not have a False Self which differs from its pathological equivalent in that it is more realistic and closer to the True Self.

It is true that even healthy people have a mask [Guffman], or a persona [Jung] which they consciously present to the world. But these are a far cry from the False Self, which is mostly subconscious, depends on outside feedback, and is compulsive.

The False Self is an adaptive reaction to pathological circumstances. But its dynamics make it predominate, devour the psyche and prey upon both the True Self. Thus, it prevents the efficient, flexible functioning of the personality as a whole.[/

Hi All,

I found these 3 pages the best I have read so far. I was directed to the "moving on" thread via google - having just come out of a BPD relationship.

The thread was started back in 2010 and sincerely hope you have all found peace. I am part the way there and this thread certainly has helped.

Thanks heaps