moving on..

Downtown and velouria, thank you so much for your welcoming and insightful comments. So much to say but unsure where to start. Firstly, I must say that Im finding this time to be extremely difficult. My emotions are running high, I often cry and let it out. I feel sad, I still feel love for her. It is all I can do to just NOT email her. It is incredibly difficult. BUT I am beginning to realise that just as Velouria says:

velouria wrote:I believe that you are actually obsessed with what you *thought* she was, not what she actually is. Because she presented you with your dream girl through mirroring (ask away about that if you want) she gave you a false impression of herself. And what you're mourning today is actually a woman you had long created in your dreams, but not the real person who has put you through all this

This is so true. I have read a lot about 'mirroring' and it makes so much sense. The only way that I can really break free from this relationship is committed no contact and the realisation that I was indeed in love with a fantasy figure, a kind of ego massage, and not a selfish, manipulative, dangerously unstable woman. The tipping point for me it seems is to remind myself of her behaviour towards other men in the past and realise that I will get similar treatment if I stick around in the future. So here, living in the present, in reality comes into play for me. But its still difficult and I know it will take time.

I guess the fact that we are in different countries helps also and the fact that she doesnt want me any more! Although sometimes she says she does..thats what really hurts. The push and pull. So my decision to break contact (its 5 days now..) has been one of trying to respect myself and yes, looking back at those red flags and seeing them as they were and yes, also wondering why I chose to ignore them. This is future work for me and I am determined to become stronger and not get into a similar situation again. But like I said..it takes time...and effort. I know this.

velouria wrote:I imagine that even a healthy partner like Ontheway can identify with that message. He very candidly describes the fantasy he experienced -- and is still haunted by -- in his statement that "... although I hadn't wanted her before, now I really wanted her. A year after we had first met..I was/am now obsessed with her. Everything about her."

Yes, Downtown, I am obsessed with her but having cut ties with msn and FB and skype this has lessened a lot. I was basically cyberstalking her! No more. But the most interesting aspect of it to me is that the situation flipped over when she said she didnt need me anymore. I had previously been the one who was disinterested/ unwilling/ afraid to enter a relationship with her or live with her. I didnt even really fancy her! Too much was wrong with the situation. And then : BAM!! Im totally besotted. It seems that then/now that I'M the one who idolises HER!! This has happened before to me and to all of us (..'Dont know what it is you got til its gone..') but never to such an intense degree as this. Its like a part of me has been completely ripped out. I had adopted her tastes and values and opinions. I had really begun to BE her in some ways. Maybe this is what is known as enmeshment? So anyway, its tough right now but I realise that its time for a real examination of my own character and it has been for a while..maybe this was the perfect catalyst for that. Hopefully I will be a stronger and wiser man this time next year. Your support is really helping me so I will continue to post if you continue to reply!

Finally, 'Normal?', thank you so much for your article about BPD subtypes. Excellent. I see definite signs of Histrionic behaviour in her. Thanks again guys for all your help.

ontheway wrote:I was indeed in love with a fantasy figure.

So was she. I say this because understanding this notion was perhaps the most important thing in speeding my recovery from the relationship. Moreover, it is the one question that BPD partners (Nons) most want answered: did she love the real me? The answer is "not really." Until your ex goes through several years of treatment, she will remain incapable of loving you in a mature sense. Instead, she is capable only of infatuation.

With my ex, for example, she "loved me" only when she was able to sugar coat me with projected qualities that no human being can possess. Whenever she got a glimpse of the real me, she would immediately be triggered into disliking, if not hating, me. Hence, I was lovable only as long as I hid much of myself by carefully "walking on eggshells."

This understanding should help you distance yourself from her and diminish your obsession. Granted, it will not give you the ego boost you enjoyed when thinking she found the "real you" so irresistable. Yet, at this stage -- after having enjoyed several months of intense passion and being adored -- you no longer need that fantasy.

What you need is a good dose of reality so you remain safe, i.e., out of the relationship. So join the ranks of us millions of folks who eventually had to concede to ourselves that, no, we were not really loved for whom we really are. Our exes never could see us clearly, regardless of whether they were splitting us white or black. We were either idealized or demonized.

Significantly, your ex did not sugar coat you in a malicious attempt to manipulate you. Instead, she was in so much pain and fear that she was in a desperate search for a savior. Her subconscious therefore provided what she needed by creating a savior out of the fabric of a normal man. (Keep in mind that I am cut of finer and sturdier cloth but, heh, I am better looking, far older, wiser, and somewhat wrinkle resistant.)

Sadly, that honeymoon rarely lasts more than six months because it takes so much energy for her to maintain the projected illusion of you for her to enjoy -- while at the same time also maintaining the mirroring of you (i.e., her false image) for you to enjoy. It exhausts me to think of having to maintain both of those things simultaneously on a 24/7 basis for up to six months.

My point, then, is that once the honeymoon ends you can never fully restore it for even a few hours. The illusions are too difficult to recreate once the two of you have had a peek at reality. It is like the old adage, "You can never go home again." It is not because "home" has changed but, rather, because the two of you have changed. She will now see too much of the real you and she will not like what she sees. Likewise, for you, Ontheway.

What you need is a good dose of reality so you remain safe, i.e., out of the relationship. So join the ranks of us millions of folks who eventually had to concede to ourselves that, no, we were not really loved for whom we really are. Our exes never could see us clearly, regardless of whether they were splitting us white or black. We were either idealized or demonized.

Thanks for posting this because it IS so true! It's now been 2.5 months and like the OP I have found myself really struggling lately. Maybe it's because she is with another guy who is a member of both of the communities I enjoy (biking and climbing), 12 years older (how many times did she comment that she WOULD never date someone that old) and I just found out she's planning a trip soon with him to AZ to do a rim to rim hike of the Grand Canyon that was my idea! I wish she'd just contact me in some way so that I can "get that over" and really move on but alas she to involved and the honeymoon is continueing for her (poor sucker).

Has anyone ever managed to get a restraining order after the fact, cause you know the cycle? We both probably have enough on one another to get one but I doubt she'd ever go there since she has so many financial issues. Think I'll move this topic to a new thread....

Keep strong! I'm hoping one of these days I'll not wake up before my alarm and be riddled with thoughts of her.

Has anyone ever managed to get a restraining order after the fact, cause you know the cycle?

Unfortunately, YOU are the restraining order. This is going to require you to pull up your strengths, the ones that are definitely already there. They're just a little under-utilized at the mo. My trick for this is keeping the focus on myself. As much as humanly possible, whenever I start to think of him, I turn my thoughts back to myself. How I'm feeling, why I'm feeling that way, what I need at that moment, etc. If I find that I'm obsessing, I do a deeper search whether internally or externally (what brought me here) until I have that A-ha. And then I keep going.

I know it's really, really hard. This takes a lot of discipline. We can't just say what we want to be or where we want to go and then push a button. We can't go on autopilot. This process takes a lot of care. Just make sure that care is directed at you as much as you can.

Thank you all for the replies. You, Downtown are an absolute rock. You have no idea just how grateful to you I am.

DowntownDC wrote:I was indeed in love with a fantasy figure.So was she

DowntownDC wrote: did she love the real me? The answer is "not really

You have no idea of the impact these two statements have on me! These are the most importanat things I have learned since researching BPD. So much sense and truth is in this. Especially in the top quote. That is a pure revelation! I realise that she doesnt love me for who I am and that she hasnt done for quite some time. So I guess I need to ask myself why Im still obsessing about her and thinking about her 24/7. Its still difficult, its only day 6 . Im wondering if there will EVER be a time when we can contact each other as 'friends' but Im not sure this is possible because I know that she still has the power to seduce me if she needs to. It seeems to be quite a burden to have so much knowledge of this disorder, knowledge that she doesnt have. I sometimes wonder if I should tell her? I know now for 100 per cent that she is Borderline Impulsive with histrionic traits. 100 percent. Most of my attraction to her was worrying about her and her desperate situation and |Im still worried about her. Maybe this is the point where I should start 'worrying' about ME instead...or at least CARING for myself.

DowntownDC wrote:Significantly, your ex did not sugar coat you in a malicious attempt to manipulate you. Instead, she was in so much pain and fear that she was in a desperate search for a savior. Her subconscious therefore provided what she needed by creating a savior out of the fabric of a normal man.

Im seeing some truth in this although at the same time there was 'sugar coating' going on at the start of the relationship but as soon as I 'wasnt there for her' and couldnt 'save' her, the sugar coating came off me pretty quickly! But its not just the 'honeymoon' period (which, incidentally DID last for six months) that I mourn. Its also the 'normal' times that we had together. Wishing and hoping that things could be that way again. But ultimately realising that its best to forget. I sometimes think of her ex, the father of her child. I think of what that poor man is going through and has gone through. He has maintained no contact with her to the point that he cant contact his own child because of her. Nightmare. She showed him no empathy at all. I realise that Im one of the lucky ones. I know that you have been through so much, Downtown, and if its any consolation to you at all, your experiences and advice are truly invaluable to a lot of people here and are helping us to 'move on'. So I salute you for that, you handsome, wrinkle-free old wizard you

Hey Ontheway - how ya doing?

I believe that this is called 'cognitive dissonance':- since both perspectives can't be true the brain kind of ties itself up in knots and keeps you trapped in a web of confusion. I found this period of time extremely disorientating. I felt like I had nothing to grab hold of:- no 'truth'. It sent my brain in to overdrive, trying to fathom out what was real and what was not.

It is a really hard thing to accept though isn't it:- that you really didn't know this person, the person who you very recently believed you knew better than anyone in the world. It's enough to make your head burst!

Finally I remember reading something about mirroring once:- it stated that all those things you loved about your partner in the early months, the wonderful personality traits you observed and picked up on and so admired, all the characteristics that you so respected and cherished, well they are yours as well. They were mirrored. What you saw in her, others see in you (if that makes sense?). Just remember that Ontheway.

PS

And on cognitive dissonance:

Some people resolve dissonance by “tuning out” information that threatens their biases or preconceptions. This is one reason why many people are attracted to “total systems” of beliefs, whether in religion, politics, or psychotherapy. But other people use more imaginative and complex methods of resolving dissonance, and these tend to be more self-actualized.

Specifically, self-actualized people are more likely to synthesize conflicting elements rather than decide between them. Self-actualized people are also less likely to resolve conflicts by repressing information about their environments.

But high levels of dissonance on important issues don’t always lead to cognitive restructuring. They sometimes lead instead to emotional paralysis. The factors which make people resolve dissonance in one way or another haven’t been studied much, but would seem to involve personality differences as well as social contexts. It seems likely, for example, that “higher levels” of resolution and more elaborate restructuring are associated with greater creativity. For example, Albert Einstein arrived at his theory of relativity through a lengthy process of cognitive restructuring. This occurred after he noted dissonances between the existing Newtonian theory and recent observations of other physicists, both of which he had strong investment in.

Higher levels of resolving dissonance also seem likely to be associated with greater self-actualization. Abraham Maslow noted that self-actualized people bridge dichotomies between important elements in their mental makeup (e.g., emotion and reason), rather simply living with the dichotomies or suppressing one side of them.

http://www.uta.edu/psychology/faculty/l ... se7dbl.pdf

Normal, that is a great link an quote, if slightly above my head. I am likening it to Kohlberg's stages of moral development:

http://faculty.plts.edu/gpence/html/kohlberg.htm

What you write about dogmatic thinking vs. free-thinking isn't exactly either/or as Kohlberg puts it. Rather, it is a ladder of developmental stages. And by "morality" it is referring to an individual's ability to self-govern, hence the freedom to think freely. My spiritual side says that we are all born with this ability to self-govern, to know right from wrong, to make the right decisions, etc. It is through our early childhood development that this "innocence" is shadowed by environmental influences. And that shadow can at any time be moved aside. Once we work through our "baggage" or internal coping mechanisms that are now our obstacles to healthy relationships and a satisfying existence AND trust the moral "core" that is inherent to all of us, we are able to find self-actualization and more easily achieve resolution at higher levels.

Some of the things that accompany the self-actualized state, IMO:

• Loss of anxiety due to trust in oneself to make the right decision when a decision needs to be made (and only when)
• A more grounded constitution, free from magical thinking, with increased presence in "the now."
• Increased ability to set and adhere to boundaries
• Increased ability to set realistic goals and achieve them

I'm sure the list goes on! If anyone is following along (and not bored into a catatonic state), for the Non, this is invaluable. Because as Nons in BPD relationships, we find ourselves in the middle of a mine field and have no clue how to get ourselves out. I actually liken my experience as like Alice following down the rabbit hole. I've read others referring it to feeling like Dorothy landing in Oz. The first thing we need to do is acknowledge our inner moral core, acknowledge and then trust it, and know we'll find our way to peace.

Hey Velouria

Processing a relationship with someone who is disordered is akin to swimming in treacle. You can't make any headway - and everything becomes a sticking point. I know what you mean about Alice - I felt the same way too. Everything went upside down - I really felt as if I had nothing at all to cling on to, as if I'd been flung out into some dark, black hole and I couldn't find a focal point or a light to guide me. Floundering is the best word maybe to describe it? One site that helped me a lot is this one - it is very matter of fact and became a bit of a 'guidebook' for me when I began to reframe my exes behaviours - it was very empowering to name things (and with naming comes also a process of stepping back doesn't it?).

http://www.outofthefogsite.com/CommonBehaviors.html

...is that it is really the sign of a creative spirit?

OK, I see that now. I think we're approaching the same thing from different sides. I have great strength in this area. Hence my ability to rub my fingers together and create a lot of success for myself in every area save for this one instance in my life. Like you said, you had a strong core in all other facets of your life, so the gift of cognitive dissonance is just that - a gift.

My pre-existing condition was a short term experience in physical abuse when I was 3 years old. It only lasted a few months. But it left a bruise that I never knew existed. I never acknowledged that period in my life until I entered therapy (for the purpose of coaxing myself away from the BPD ex). Once there, I had the realization that this man tickled that contusion. So when he'd demoralize me or discard me, I'd seek him to heal my emotional wound. Just like I did when my own mother beat me. Since she was also my caregiver, I relied on her to hug me or "reward" me after her abusive episodes. It was a cycle that was deeply ingrained in my psyche.

I realized the "why." That was the first significant step. The second step was to truly turn my focus to myself in how I was feeling in the moment (not just the past but the "now"). If I was sad, I acknowledged it, played with it, explored it, and soothed it all on my own. If I was angry, I did the same. And on and on. I became incredibly self aware of my emotional realm. And the most important outcome was that I learned to soothe myself.

Meanwhile, I was still in the cycle with this man but it was growing increasingly tiresome. Especially because I knew why I was sticking around and that he could not heal my wounds. Only I could do that. So the exercises in futility truly sunk in and became a waste of my time and energy. Granted, to this day I still have yearnings. This is the reason I came to this forum in the first place. But I've isolated that feeling and refuse to let it fatigue me. I just know it's there and continue to explore it.

This is why you'll never again see me agonizing over what I'll do if he ever contacts me again. I have my core to reach to if and when he does. And I know I'll make the right decision then. And if I don't, I know I can always correct myself and return to center.