Hello Psychforums. [Potentially Triggering]

Hello. Most of you probably already know me by now, so I won't bother with introducing myself, but a few significant things have happened over the last week or so, and I guess I just wanted someone other than Aaron to talk about it with.

Anyway, a few days ago, I told my ("our") mother about my attraction to children. I had wanted to tell her a long time ago, but I was afraid to, because I knew she was molested as a child. Still, my father insisted that she would not react as badly as I thought she would, and I somehow felt she had the right to know. So... I told her.

Well she didn't blow up in my face like I expected her to. In fact, the conversation was very productive; Aaron and I found out a lot about what happened to our mother, as well as some insight into my attractions; apparently my parents are into little girls as well (well, actually, they're into "little bald pussy", which makes me question just how much their attaction really is similar to mine, but still...). In any case, she emphasized the need to not "do anything to them", and said that if I ever have a little girl, that I need to make sure that I have someone to talk to should I start developing an attraction to her. Good advice I suppose, but it got me thinking.

You see, what bothers me is that I'm not certain what things are "okay" to do with children and which ones could hurt them. I know that anything sexual with a child is (apparently) very bad, but I've also read that children NEED to be touched in other ways (hugging cuddling, holding them when they're upset) or else they will have problems later on in life. I'd love to do these things with children because they're always so happy afterwards. My problem is that my feelings of afffection and my sexual attraction to children are strongly intertwined, and I'm worried that many non-sexual things I want to do with children could be mistaken for grooming tactics.

So what is safe to do with children (girls in particular)? I can't touch them between thier legs (even with thier permission) or ask to see them naked, I know, but can I cuddle with them? For how long? May I kiss them, stroke thier heads and whisper "I love you" in their ears? I know it sounds crazy, but I honestly don't know where the line is between "loving" and "scarring". It's apparently somewhere between the things I've mentioned, but I just can't see it.

So I guess what this post is for is to ask my fellow psychforums members: where do you draw the line, and why?

I don't have any issues with empathy, so I've always found it very easy to sense where that line is. I also have regular (non-physical) contact with kids, which helps because it means I stay in tune with their individuality. I don't believe your question is best answered theoretically. Be in touch with your emotions (and motives) and those of kids.

I have pretty definite lines. They are not everyone's lines, obviously, and I won't say that this is the only way to go. But here they are.


I am not really attracted to any girls or boys under 10. So I don't worry about being around them. But, I don't touch them at all unless they are somehow "family" and we are hugging at the holidays, or we hug at birthdays, and so on. A hug upon arriving, a hug upon leaving. That's it. I have no business cuddling, stroking, saying I love you. That's not smart at all, and why should I? They are not my kids. If I am introduced to kids who are with their parents, not family, I shake their hand and that's it. Nothing more.

Kids or adolescents between 10-15 I have a stronger attraction to. So I hug upon greeting and upon leaving, and again, that's it. I don't let myself alone with them, especially if I am socializing and drinking at parties. I don't sit next to them, I don't try to gain their trust. I just chat and try to stay outside of that age range.

Between 15-20 or so, I pretty much do the same. It's not that I am not attracted to them, but I don't consider being attracted to a 16 year old the same as an attraction to an 12 year old. So I just stay cool, stay outside the physical space where you might get too close, unless you, again , are hugging to get there, or hugging to leave.

That said, I have two nieces who had no dad, living somewhat nearby. I felt for them, they were drifting at an early age. I entered their lives to help out when they were about 8, and stayed in contact with them until they moved on and could graduate, have bf's and so on, and I became, at this time, less relevant.

I spent lots of time around them and at times really really struggled to be a role model/dad substitute, and not become too close and do something stupid. I was going through a really hard time when they hit puberty, my marriage, my business, I was drinking pretty heavy. It was excruciating to see them , exceptionally attractive, dressing in so few clothes, I could have fit them all in my watch pocket, and had to pretend the pull wasn't there. I had all sorts of time with them alone, the older of the two was very interested in sex, and talked to me constantly about it.

Luckily, and really it was part luck, I stayed on the physical sidelines, although not mental, worked on my marriage and business, slowed down the booze, and they soon drifted into their own world they now know. Besides teaching them to drive, my parting gift was convincing their mom when they were 12-13, to put them both on the pill, a wise move all around, I think.

Raising my own kids was way different. That's probably best at another post.

idk i think whether it's in appropriate or not depends on what you're feeling inside.

Maybe if you're not sure how it would make you feel to be that close with kids then don't allow yourself to get that close to them.

Well hello to you Chessplayer. Thanks for answering this beautiful question and here is my answer. No! You can not ask a child to her naked. I don't know your relationship with her but I doubt you're her father and don't have a right to see her naked. Well you're spot on not touching little girls in their private parts because duh it is called child molestation. If it ain't acceptable when an adult does, an parent, stranger, or just anyone, it ain't acceptable when you do it. Even if the child said yes children don't know when they're saying yes to. The child may blame herself for saying yes when she grows up or feel "weird" or even act out on another child.

I guess you could cuddle with the child if it is okay with her... not every child likes to be touch y'know. It is probably going to look weird depending on you're age lol. I'm not sure about the length though ... I say about 3 minutes at least and 5 tops. Don't want her getting too clingy to every adult. When ya mean kiss, kiss where? If we're on the same page that a peck on the check or forehead is fine and not kissing on the lips sure. I used to kiss my dad on the lips as a child but I couldn't do it forever. You don't want her growing up thinking kissing older strange men at a young age is fine because that leaves room for older men to advantage of her and getting involved in relationships way too soon.

Stroking the head is okay too... I think. I don't know what child ever felt traumatized from stroking heads or I may be wrong. Yeah you can love them if you want but not in that creepy way lol. I personally would draw the line at excessive touching and cuddling. If I witnessed an stranger getting too close to a child, constantly being "touchy" and constantly requesting to see her/he I would suspect something ain't right. If he/she is the parent, sure but a complete stranger or not a close relative I probably would think the worst.

I understand your confusion completely.

The reason you're feeling confused is that the line you need to worry about isn't written by God, nature, or any such thing. It's written by the community standards of your fellow humans. If you're known to be a pedophile, so much as standing in the same train station across a massive crowd is too much, and some will claim you're molesting her just by looking in her general direction. The community standards are built on hate after all.

I respect you too much as a person to go into obvious things like touching her in any way when she doesn't want you to. You're not the sort of person who needs advice like that.

Me, I've cuddled with girls in my AoA, kissed them on the cheeks and foreheads, hugged them, cuddled with them, and let them fall asleep draped over me in one memorable incident.

I've tried to avoid getting too emotionally close to any given girl. I'd rather not deal with the heartache of never being able to be together, and I don't want her to have to try to understand why we can't be. Part of that has been not kissing their lips, stroking their hair, or saying "I love you".

Were it my ofspring, I'd likely put those three acts back on the table, since we're "allowed" to love one another if we're father and daughter, while loving a child who isn't your ofspring is treated as tanamount to raping her. Sort of shows the screwed up priorities in this damn broken world we live in.

While I'm typically standoffish for the sake of not letting either one of us get attached, if a girl is upset, any lines go out the window, and I do what it takes to make her feel better. I back away from girls because I care about them and their feelings, so it would be stupid if I didn't do anything I could to comfort them if they need it. (Any idiot who tries to twist this paragraph to mean anything other than the same platonic activities you usually do to show a child she's safe and cared about can take a long walk off a short peer.)

In short, the line between loving and scarring is most plainly defined by a broken heart. Anyone who thinks children incapable of feeling deeply has forgotten their own childhood and has never treated a child like a person since then.

In short, the line between loving and scarring is most plainly defined by a broken heart. Anyone who thinks children incapable of feeling deeply has forgotten their own childhood and has never treated a child like a person since then.

Very well spoken, although we all have had broken hearts. The line between hurting and scarring, though, is complex and personal. Hurt might not stay, I can speak to that. Remembered, but not carved into our soul. But, I have been scarred by seemingly simple acts. I still remember cruelties from when I was young.

A song for all who have been scarred.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j-GxqugJTE

YouthRightsRadical wrote:I understand your confusion completely.

The reason you're feeling confused is that the line you need to worry about isn't written by God, nature, or any such thing. It's written by the community standards of your fellow humans. If you're known to be a pedophile, so much as standing in the same train station across a massive crowd is too much, and some will claim you're molesting her just by looking in her general direction. The community standards are built on hate after all.

If no one knows he's a pedophile other than his family then he is safe. No one cares if he's a pedophile or not just his actions with children. Is that a bad thing? He doesn't know the difference between innocent touching and coming off with that creepy uncle vibe and it ain't a bad thing to help him know the difference. That little girl will probably have a get story to tell in the future about the creepy babysitter. I know I got a story that almost led to being molested or kidnapped. Laws are made to protect those living in society not to anger those that want to harm others just like murder.



Were it my ofspring, I'd likely put those three acts back on the table, since we're "allowed" to love one another if we're father and daughter, while loving a child who isn't your ofspring is treated as tanamount to raping her. Sort of shows the screwed up priorities in this damn broken world we live in.
No offense but if it ain't your kids then why do you feel like it is okay to show affection to him/her like "that"? If you're a paid babysitter getting paid to babysit and nothing else sure but an a complete stranger? Ask the parents because you decide to just involve yourself in a child's life. Define "love" please.


In short, the line between loving and scarring is most plainly defined by a broken heart. Anyone who thinks children incapable of feeling deeply has forgotten their own childhood and has never treated a child like a person since then.

Kids can feel love but it is not comparable to the love of an adult. Kids are full of emotions and don't know how to express it in the smart and good way. They feel crushes but not "I so want to marry this 34 year old man/women when I is 7". And that is what is so easy to manipulate them by taking advantage of their emotions and nativity. What do you mean by broken heart? Lol because child rape and child labor is so loving. We need to lessen the crime for child abduction because we all know when an 50 year man kidnaps an 5 year old right out of her own home it is the act to spread the "love".

DeadlyUnicorn1998 wrote:

YouthRightsRadical wrote:I understand your confusion completely.

The reason you're feeling confused is that the line you need to worry about isn't written by God, nature, or any such thing. It's written by the community standards of your fellow humans. If you're known to be a pedophile, so much as standing in the same train station across a massive crowd is too much, and some will claim you're molesting her just by looking in her general direction. The community standards are built on hate after all.

If no one knows he's a pedophile other than his family then he is safe. No one cares if he's a pedophile or not just his actions with children.

That's a lie. If people didn't care if he were a pedophile or not, it wouldn't be as instrumental as even you admit that no one know about it in order for him to be safe.

DeadlyUnicorn1998 wrote:Is that a bad thing? He doesn't know the difference between innocent touching and coming off with that creepy uncle vibe and it ain't a bad thing to help him know the difference.

There is no difference. None. The only place you will find a difference is in the twisted minds of the observer, and lacking the power to control minds, there's nothing he can do to stay to one side of the imaginary, ever moving, invisible line.

He either holds back and never reaches out a comforting or affectionate hand toward a child for fear that his benevolence will be misinterpreted, and thus deprives that child of the basic human affection that all human beings need to thrive, or he must risk the violent bigots. Mind you, those same small-minded bigots will be the first and the loudest to call him withdrawing as abuse and sure proof that he's a monster.

DeadlyUnicorn1998 wrote:That little girl will probably have a get story to tell in the future about the creepy babysitter. I know I got a story that almost led to being molested or kidnapped.

It always baffles me that in the world you bigots inhabit that children aren't the expressive, and downright rude creatures I've always known them to be. That they'll never make clear their feelings or preferences in your world, despite the fact that they seem to do so constantly (in spite of their highest authority figures express demands and occasional threats of violence) when I've seen them in my world.

DeadlyUnicorn1998 wrote:Laws are made to protect those living in society not to anger those that want to harm others just like murder.

Go ###$ yourself. No one here is suggesting kidnapping, rape, or murder are acceptable behaviors. The fact that you're comparing him to a murderer for asking where the ######6 line is tells me you aren't arguing in good faith, and are thus worthy only to be used as a sounding board to demonstrate the truth to the non-posting audience. You're not going to be convinced to behave like a civilized human being regardless of what anyone here says.

DeadlyUnicorn1998 wrote:

YouthRightsRadical wrote:Were it my ofspring, I'd likely put those three acts back on the table, since we're "allowed" to love one another if we're father and daughter, while loving a child who isn't your ofspring is treated as tanamount to raping her. Sort of shows the screwed up priorities in this damn broken world we live in.

No offense but if it ain't your kids then why do you feel like it is okay to show affection to him/her like "that"?

Like what? Like they're a valuable human being that I've come to care about? Yeah, what a monster I must be to want to offer a child affection.

If you're accusing me of something, come out and say it. You're on a paraphilias board. Be as explicit as required to communicate clearly exactly what you're accusing me of doing.

DeadlyUnicorn1998 wrote:If you're a paid babysitter getting paid to babysit and nothing else sure but an a complete stranger?

Because the only people who should ever care about a child are people who are paid to give a ###$ about them. Do you even understand how sad the world you're trying to create is?

DeadlyUnicorn1998 wrote:Ask the parents because you decide to just involve yourself in a child's life.

Because children are slaves that you need to go ask the owners for permission to interact with?

DeadlyUnicorn1998 wrote:Define "love" please.

Again, it's incredibly sad that you don't know.

DeadlyUnicorn1998 wrote:

YouthRightsRadical wrote:In short, the line between loving and scarring is most plainly defined by a broken heart. Anyone who thinks children incapable of feeling deeply has forgotten their own childhood and has never treated a child like a person since then.

Kids can feel love but it is not comparable to the love of an adult.

You don't get to say who's feelings are real or valid and who's aren't. You aren't the arbiter to say that one person's feelings are less important or meaningful than someone else's.

DeadlyUnicorn1998 wrote:Kids are full of emotions and don't know how to express it in the smart and good way.

You mean they have had less time to be indoctrinated to limit their emotional expression to the handful of ways you find acceptable.

DeadlyUnicorn1998 wrote:They feel crushes but not "I so want to marry this 34 year old man/women when I is 7".

You've never spoken to a child, have you? Be honest.

DeadlyUnicorn1998 wrote:And that is what is so easy to manipulate them by taking advantage of their emotions and nativity.

Have you ever tried not taking advantage of other people?

DeadlyUnicorn1998 wrote:What do you mean by broken heart?

I know you've probably distanced yourself so much from other people that you can't experience it. Maybe you were raised "right" and have never experienced it. You see, when one person comes to care about another person, an emotional bond is formed. The severing of a strong emotional bond causes emotional pain. The tighter the bond, the more painful severing it becomes. At a certain threshold of connectedness, the severing of such a bond produces a level of pain called heartbreak.

DeadlyUnicorn1998 wrote:Lol because child rape and child labor is so loving.

Idiot, no one here is suggesting rape. Levi is trying to get a handle on what level of nonsexual affection is appropriate with children. Still, thanks for proving my point that no matter what you do, there will always be some violent asshole willing to treat any act of affection as though it were equivalent to child rape.

DeadlyUnicorn1998 wrote:We need to lessen the crime for child abduction because we all know when an 50 year man kidnaps an 5 year old right out of her own home it is the act to spread the "love".

Because when he kidnaps a 25 year old, our society treats that as acceptable, right?

I am very tentative to touch a child. I personally just let them make the first move.

I don't think I as a kid would mind a little hugging and hand n the shoulder and if they were an even vaguely attractive woman, cuddling with them may well have been welcome.

But it seems even though I loved the attention of big kids/teens/young adults when I was young kids these days seem a bit cold to me.