Can a narcissist be outsmarted?

I've just realized that I was in relationship with narcissist. I've been given the silent treatment for months, but was never even told that it was over. The narc left me hanging- he said I was the one, but after being demoted at work and a death in the family, he wasn't in the best place for relationships, according to him.

What baffles me is that he keeps checking up on me via social media, yet ignores me. I caved in twice; sent an email then a friend request, and he ignored the email and left friend request pending for five weeks. Yet he still keeps viewing my social media, especially Linkedin. I've done a test and whenever I make my twitter private, he will favorite a random tweet on the actual day my twitter goes private, and look at my Linkedin. When I make my twitter public again, the Linkedin views and his tweets stop. He's playing a mind game, and I am done with him. But I want to save face...I feel like an idiot for biting and reaching out twice in eight months of the silent treatment, even though his social media actions have led me to do it. I need a definite "end" to this..what makes a narcissist most upset during silent treatment? I was going to put up a photo of me and another guy on Facebook and make anniversary date be ten months ago, so the narcissist will think he himself is crazy and that I've been in a relationship this whole time. Any other ways to get under the narcissist skin?

Sure, narcissists can be outsmarted, if they aren't very bright, are lousy actors, or have a lot of BPD symptoms. Less intelligent (or narcissists with more borderline symptoms) are less likely to be able to successfully manipulate their targets and are more easily seen through as the insecure people they really are. If they tend to fly into irrational rages and sulking (common in NPDs with BPD symptoms), their vulnerabilities show, and it may be possible to outsmart them using logic and using their own weapons against them. You can certainly gaslight a narcissist!

The only issue is that even Ns who aren't very bright have often become good at using Machiavellian tactics and manipulative machinations to get what they want. They aren't thinking about it--it doesn't necessarily take high intelligence to be successful at manipulating others to do your bidding or give you what you want. Think of a highly trained monkey--the monkey may appear to be incredibly intelligent when they perform highly involved or complicated tasks, but they learned in stages by learning one simple task at a time through reward and punishment, then another, then another, until the entire process put together looks complex. Narcs have been this way so long that their seemingly brilliant and complex schemes and mind games were learned over many years and built on each other--through reward and positive and negative conditioning starting in childhood, they learned what worked and what didn't. It's not a conscious skill though--like the highly trained monkey, they just do what they do but don't know what they're doing or even why, just that they need to do it to get a result. Another analogy is a multilingual child. The child may only have average intelligence, but if exposed to many languages at an early age, will pick up all those languages and become fluent in all of them. If something is learned early in life, it becomes second nature, almost instinctual.

As far as your narcissist is concerned and the way he's stalking you on social media in spite of D&Ding you, I'm going through a similar experience with one right now, who is doing exactly the same thing!

Wb97 wrote:What baffles me is that he keeps checking up on me via social media, yet ignores me.

Because you respond to it. The greek myth of Narcissus is extremely accurate (concerning using another person as an object to make the projected image appear to be alive/real). You should especially read the part about Echo, the role she (you) played.

Wb97 wrote:Any other ways to get under the narcissist skin?

Why do you want to get under his skin -- as opposed to getting him out of your life?

It may sound like a cheap attack against you, but Ns don't exist in a vacuum. They attract (and are attracted to) people with their own reactive patterns, holes to fill, maladaptive renenactments in search of a different outcome (which they self-sabotage). From what I've seen here, people recovering from an experience with an N would be much better served seeing a therapist to understand why they were attracted to someone unhealthy, why they didn't see that condition for what it was/is, and why it affected them in such a way (that they remain a part of it, focused on "getting under the N's skin" when the N is under their skin. Or, needing the N to give them closure when their closure is entirely within their own control, and needing the N is illustrative of their own problem.).

We're all faced with defining moments in our lives. This could be one for you. I have seen people remain "hooked" for 4 (and even FOURTEEN) YEARS of their lives using various excuses about how the N won't leave them alone, they need the N to release them, etc. Don't underestimate how prone you could be to that. Don't play with fire.

Ladywith3cats wrote: Narcs have been this way so long that their seemingly brilliant and complex schemes and mind games were learned over many years and built on each other--through reward and positive and negative conditioning starting in childhood, they learned what worked and what didn't. It's not a conscious skill though--like the highly trained monkey, they just do what they do but don't know what they're doing or even why, just that they need to do it to get a result.

The nice thing about highly trained monkeys is that a little unpredictability totally trips them up.

Wb97 wrote: I need a definite "end" to this..what makes a narcissist most upset during silent treatment? I was going to put up a photo of me and another guy on Facebook and make anniversary date be ten months ago, so the narcissist will think he himself is crazy and that I've been in a relationship this whole time. Any other ways to get under the narcissist skin?

What you need to realize is that most of the times with narcissists, there is no definite end unless you make it happen. You could wait around for many years and he might still check up on you now and then or initiate contact with you again.

If you put up that photo - yes, there is a chance it will get to him and hurt him. When a narcissist is hurt the default response is rage. If that's the reaction you want to provoke, by all means do so. I would otherwise think that being left alone is a whole lot better than being abused or stalked by someone you don't want in your life any longer.

The best thing you can do for yourself is let it be and move on. That's the closest you are going to get to outsmarting a narcissist. You most likely have too much empathy and much too little experience manipulating people to beat him at his own game.

keeponriding wrote:

Wb97 wrote: I need a definite "end" to this..what makes a narcissist most upset during silent treatment? I was going to put up a photo of me and another guy on Facebook and make anniversary date be ten months ago, so the narcissist will think he himself is crazy and that I've been in a relationship this whole time. Any other ways to get under the narcissist skin?

What you need to realize is that most of the times with narcissists, there is no definite end unless you make it happen. You could wait around for many years and he might still check up on you now and then or initiate contact with you again.

If you put up that photo - yes, there is a chance it will get to him and hurt him. When a narcissist is hurt the default response is rage. If that's the reaction you want to provoke, by all means do so. I would otherwise think that being left alone is a whole lot better than being abused or stalked by someone you don't want in your life any longer.

The best thing you can do for yourself is let it be and move on. That's the closest you are going to get to outsmarting a narcissist. You most likely have too much empathy and much too little experience manipulating people to beat him at his own game.

A narcissist has an unquenchable thirst for victory.

Best not to play the game, and instead let them think they've won.

I understand you are upset, but by trying to "outsmart" him or "get even" you will be playing the same kind of "mind games" you said he is doing to you, and will only further prolong your pain. Do you really want to stoop down on that level, or rise above it? The best thing you can do for yourself is to let things be and move on. I would encourage you to start journaling and begin working on your own healing. Take this time to focus on taking care of you, loving and nurturing you. Also, I would read more about NPD and realize that his behavior towards you has nothing to do with you, but are his issues, and how he operates. Then maybe you can look at him with compassion and allow yourself the peace that you deserve.

TTL and Ladyw3Cats said it best.

The problem is what exactly does 'outsmart' mean? Really, it means "can he love me?" No. It's not going to happen. You can't play a game to make someone love you. You can play power games, yes. But NONE of that leads to love. Love is about being vulnerable and the game of pretending to check and not check is NOT about being vulnerable. But about deception, sneaky, whatever.

I am just not sure why the internet 'lingo' also includes this idea that you can't play an N or can't win. I did. At his game. But At MY GAME? No... he doesn't love me. And never will. Not as I needed it.

So isn't it a mute point? Yeah, I provoked him to rage, I hit him below the belt. I exposed the fact that despite is fake sense of being in control, he never was. The 'game' is still there. But for what? nothing is gained.

let me give you a weird example. The N that brought me to this site is not from the US. Did not have a US education. Is from a backward poor third world country. But he is very good with languages and really gets the nuances of language and thought. I think he is sort of brilliant that way. So the last time I ever spoke with him, I told him he has a Jeckyll and Hyde personality. A split.

So here is what I know about that story... mostly it describes a good vs evil personality. I honestly have never read the story. Now, I do check his social media. Old habit. And cause I am waiting until the day I look at it and have no emotional reaction to what I see. It's almost there. But... he posted something about creating a certain blend of something he manufacturers. And he described it as "in Dr Jeckly mode", should he try it?

And it got me to wondering... so I actually went and READ what that story was about. And learned that indeed, the story does involve a "Dr" who created a concoction to become Hyde. And at first, I was no way... no way did he know the actual story and about the potion. I didn't even know it. It's a common expression, Jekyll and Hyde, but how many actually know the story? it's literature in another language not his own, and I am not sure how he would know it. And... so I am pretty sure that he posted that there, on purpose even. Knowing I look at his media. And he posted that there was a 'clue' in the picture. I am not sure what... but...

So what.

At first, I had an emotional reaction and then I went... so what. So what. He is not doing the one thing that I needed and wanted... to approach me with love and care. And isn't that why we are in relationships? Or is it to play games? Sure, they are 'fun' but that is NOT a life ....

So, did a month after I told him he is like that character, did he post that because he didn't know what I meant, looked up the reference and is thinking about the implications of what I said?

So what.

That's the thing... as TTL said... why? Why do we need to even go there? I went there for months. A year and a half. And it's taken that long to really grasp that it doesn't matter. I can play him and get him to react as The Cat Lady said... exactly as she described. But what's the point?

It may not come to you now, but it's a question you need to keep asking yourself. Is love a power game or what IS love to you? Cause your question is about how to have power. And that's important in relationships. But it can't BE the relationship. And with my person, that is all it would EVER be with him.

The hardest thing in this is to ask yourself what really do you want in life? What do you want your life to LOOK like? To be? What does love mean? Games? there is always going to be someone to play. Always. But... is that what you came here for, here on earthy? Or did you come here for something else? That won't be revealed in such cat and mouse games....

I think that post about Dr Jekyll was probably very unconscious on his part. I actually think that in line with what I read, that some of these people are just patchworks of other people, that he probably didn't even realize he let that slip. But if he did, than that's the degree of game going on. And I don't want or need it. He hurt me brutally but its over.

And as someone said... its over cause I said so now. He won't ever reach out, but I can and he will be there. It's just not what I want. That's it. nothing more complicated than that....

So... what do you want? To outsmart in a power game or to find love? To find friendship and companionship or what? .... If you want to outsmart him, you have to study him. And hard. Study everything he does and find your way in. I did that. And what a waste of energy. Of life. I gained nothing in the end except a whole new understanding of a world I was in denial about. But I gained nothing with him. We are enemies more or less. He can pretend to tell me that "we are good" but it's a lie... we are not good. I will always have to watch my back with him as I know what he is capable of.

So... what do you want? really? In life?

livingnlearing2 wrote:no way did he know the actual story and about the potion. I didn't even know it. It's a common expression, Jekyll and Hyde, but how many actually know the story? it's literature in another language not his own, and I am not sure how he would know it. And... so I am pretty sure that he posted that there, on purpose even. Knowing I look at his media. And he posted that there was a 'clue' in the picture. I am not sure what... but...

IMO, this is a good example of why you SHOULD NOT be playing with contact like it's therapeutic. You'e telling yourself that you look at his social media to get over him -- and then (possibly) confabulate what you see (into a *certainty* he is communicating to you).

For example, you were incredulous that he could know the story of J/H. But, it's been in film for decades, and part of popular culture just as long. You mentioned the term to him. If he didn't know what it was, I would expect him to google about it. Often I hear an interesting word and use it more often for a few days.

It could be nothing more than that, and you made it about you (in the same way you're watching his social media).

livingnlearing2 wrote:At first, I had an emotional reaction and then I went... so what.

Have you considered when his social media won't be a productive use of your time, attention, emotions, etc? If it's therapeutic that's fine. but, usually it's not. Do you have any time limits to avoid the therapy becoming an addiction?

TTL... I didn't explain myself very well but that is exactly part of it:
A. he posted that on purpose, B. it was unconscious on his part, C. it has nothing to do with anything and was pure coincidence.

But I can tell you that where he grew up, there was no movies or TV and he is not a reader of books. So... it's pretty specific that he mentioned Dr Jekyll AND was talking about a potion he was concocting. (He makes something that requires experimenting with ingredients.)

But that's just my point. Who knows? I never WILL know. So I will make up whatever I want in a way. the confabulation.

And who cares. So what if it was A. That still doesn't change the fact he can't/wont'/doesn't want to talk to me. If it was B. see A... he still can't talk to me and if it was C. I won't ever know... my FANTASY can let me decide it's A or B but who knows, really.

The point is we have NO relationship. At all. And it doesn't matter that I KNOW if I acted right, played the right game, we could start that game again. It just doesn't matter.

I let it be for now, checking his Social Media. I don't beat myself up about it anymore, any of that. I see more suffering from people feeling they failed by checking rather than accepting that this whole internet thing is a whole element to social life that is not easy for anyone, disordered or not.

And I do use it at a chance to learn to work through MY reactions. The very ones that I could not work through when we were in communication and what seemed, very connected. I use it as a chance to expose the very confabulation you just described. At first it was like C. then I was like A. then B and then...

the most important... what does it matter? It doesn't.

Its part of my own personal move towards total indifference. How I feel about it now is NOT how I felt ages ago when we used to talk. It was trigger city back then. Now, I just go 'ouch, that hurts" and work through it and then by the next day, I have moved on. Stayed present and maintained my mindfullness.

But this was not what I could manage over a year ago. I was a total basket case. Completely triggered and totally unable to manage my responses. I became a raging lunatic I was so triggered by what he would do (and much very deliberate and manipulative on purpose).

I love seeing how I can work through it in a matter of hours now. Not for everyone. But I am confident enough to know I will never, ever contact him again. so it's just a bit more matter of time... and he will fade back to where he came from and will become a very distant memory and a massively profound lesson.