I have come to realize...

Forgive me Jean, but I know when you first came to the boards you had suspected you may have HPD and you spent a great deal of time here trying to figure things out and identify with the disorder. You've been spending less and less time on here it seems, and I'm curious- have you sought the help of an outside source (professional) to help you deal with this stuff?
How have you been doing with all of this?

Hope you are well
~Alice
Alice thank you for asking how I’ve been. Yes, I still believe myself to have HPD or HPD traits. I believe that they become worse when in relationships. I have come to realize so much about myself since I found out about HPD. I realized that my mother most likely has this disorder. I realized that I have a lot of the symptoms of ACOLA and I am the adult daughter of alcoholic parents. I realized that I learned ways to protect myself from a young age and that I used those techniques which kept me positive enough to make it through my young years. I grew up using the same techniques blaming failed relationships on my partners. Spending money I don’t have. Tons of time and money on makeup, shampoos and perfumes, that I abused alcohol for most of my 20s, that I gave myself no time for self reflection, that I am emotionally overbearing to others to where they are afraid to talk to me about serious issues, that I had kept all of my old boyfriends on the sidelines for fear of rejection/fear of non rejection, that I am naïve, that I have problems telling people NO, that I am often too forgiving and too appeasing, that I have low self esteem and that I have fear of abandonment/rejection. I have learned that I absolutely hate being ignored, that my emotions are like a storm overpowering everyone around me and then settling as quickly as they come into guilt and shame over how I’ve acted.
Alice,
I feel like I have researched the topic. I am well informed. I know more about myself now and understand what I did, why I did it, my actions behaviors all questions I’ve ever had are now fit into reasonable explanations, sorted out and filed into memory for use in life. I come on this forum every day. I will never stop. I will always be able to learn more. This knowledge was upsetting/unsettling to find out at first. I went through a lot to find out about having this in the first place, I went through a lot finding out about it and learning how to cope and deal with it. I cannot change that has happened to me in the past. I can only look to the future. I can change the things that are bad about me and keep all the wonderful things about me. I love that I can come on here and find all these beautiful men and women that I can relate to. People like me. Caring and emotional childlike amazing intelligent people just like me that are just trying to figure out how to be happy and make it in this world. People like you, Masquerade, Scarlett, Labor, Expressive, Other, and Struggling. My feet have landed on the ground, my head out of the sand and seeing things clearly.
I’ve done some things to change automatically with the knowledge. I let go of the men I held. I told them the truth. Some have contacted me wondering how I’ve been even though I had asked them not to. I told them they would know I’m doing well if they never hear from me again. I no longer need a safety net for when I fall. I’ve been on time for work. I take responsibility for my actions whether it’s acting stupid with a man or screwing something up at work. I’m paying bills on time. I’m taking yoga courses. I’m studying my emotional response to the man in my life. This is going to be the hardest part. That faulty thinking that I’m so prone to. That emotional response that is so powerful and automatic. This is the scary part because those feelings of fear are so real. I recently learned through an argument that no matter how much I fear abandonment from a man that fear only increases the chances. That people are not always dependable you gotta be independent and learn to take care of yourself. Cause in the end you’re the only one knows how to make you happy. Relationships are good. I love being in them. I have major issues there and this will be the true challenge of my life. I realize I may never be able to have a long lasting relationship. I’m scared to death of that. I worry. I worry I’ll be like mom was to dad, cold and mean and unfaithful. These fears are unreasonable but there. I will be good to the lucky guy that chooses to be in my life, because that is what I want to do. I don’t think it will ever get easy to not think if he doesn’t answer the phone or reply to a text that he no longer is interested or is out cheating or isn’t madly in love with me so I am being rejected. I know that I no longer need men in my life. If they are there is because I chose for them to be. I am worth more than any normal woman will ever be. Difficult, sexy, smart, hard working, loyal and annoying as crap but this is me. And that is where I am now Alice. I’m ok. I’m happy. I’m working hard on that which is bad about me, slowly. I’m challenging myself to be worthy of myself. I view men differently now, thanks to labor whom when I first came on here said to view them as friends. I’ve learned to have better faith in myself thanks to you and Scarlett, I’ve learned to think about things a little more deeply before reacting thanks to Masquerade and from all the other contributors here I’ve learned technical stuff, there’s Realitycheck , Orion and Wisdom for that, Treetop and Stars have taught me too look at my actions from others points of view and things about myself like why I have so many friends ect. It is so often those fresh smacks in the face of new realizations of my personality that those in my life are too afraid to be honest with me about and I do enjoy a good whap from them every once in awhile to keep me grounded. Everyone, I have learned from and I appreciate all, even the trouble makers…..
And that is how I’ve been. I’m keeping my head up, shoulders back and am not gonna go down without fighting for that which I deserve and want out of life. Is good is bad is GREY! LOL. I’m trying Alice. I really am and we all are. The Nons, the disordered we are all trying and that is hope and that is good and I understand I am not always going to feel this good about things and that sometimes will be harder than others but I also understand that there are a million other disorders, health problems, disease, abuse and horrible things that go on in the world. I saw a psychic once. She gave me a reading and at the end she stood up from her table and gave me a huge hug and said “you are going to have a great life” and hocus pocus or not, I believe her and that is all that matters. And Alice people may talk a lot of smack to you in your life, but Thank you. Thank you for all that you do.
Jean

WOW!

I'm so glad I asked you how you are you are fabulous in your new open view of yourself and your life ahead. I'm very proud of you Jean- HONEST!

I'm amazed at how far you've come in so sort a time, and I'm sure if you keep at it you're life will be the way you always wanted it to be; happy and fulfiling.

I know you're looking into things and doing some research on this stuff, a wise friend pointedout a few areas of interest to help me better understand the process of the orginazation of the disorder through development and how it acts on the mind by way of our malformed thoughts through object relations.

I'm not sure where you've done your own research but I've found it very relative and so explainitory as to how this happens and where certain changes need to take place. So I'll point out the areas of interest that were passed on to me, and if you've not yet looked there you may be quite surprised how it all makes sense when you relate it to your life.

Look at the basis of the Id, the Ego and Super Ego, I found a lot in things like:
- Primary organizations of the Id
- Ego development, Ego Functions, Ego Masochism, Ego Defences Mechanisms
- Regression, Repression, Introjection, Projection, Sublimination, Supression, Reaction Formation, Denial, Disorginaization, etc... All the defenses in other words.
- Creation of the Super Ego

Look into the labidinal stages, oral, anal and falic (not in the way you may think) I searched for specific things like:
- Oral Stage of Development, Oral Erotism, Oral Repression, Oral Sadistic
- Anal Stage of Development, Anal Erotism, Anal Sadistic
- Pahlic Stage of Development, Oedious Complex, Electra Complex, Castration Complex, Penis Envy, Phaillic Mother, Phalic Women, the Myth of the Father
- Extend into sadosim and masochism (again not waht you may be thinking- it's not sexual alone in its manifestation and activity)
- Search fixation, shame, jealousy, aggression, and many things that come up along in those kinds of searches.

Look into obect realtions and the many processes therein; I searched stuff like:
- Object Relations, Obeject splitting, the Internal Object, Object Idenitfication, Object Displacement
- Transference, Transeference of Love, Tranceference of Hate, Primary Identification, the Myth of the Hero, Transference of Projection, Projection into Self, Self Hatered, Omnipotence of Thought, Disorginization and Displacement of Tranference
- Idealization, Primary Love, the Death Insticnt

Look at instincts and Drives, from the primal to the developmentally formed/malformed.

There's so much stuff to read and understand. This stuff goes way beyond our behaviours, it shakes down to the very core of how we were made and created into who we are now-it's nuts!

I find peace in my understanding this stuff better, as you seem to be able to find some peace in understanding too. I think in that way we are a lot alike

We've all taken many paths to get to where we are today, and we'll each take our road to get out of here- I'm glad to see your walking with your head held high and your shoulders high Jean. Comfortable with who you are but working to improve and grow into who you will become. I'm sure you will bring hope to many who read your post, i know you rejuvinated me on a day where I was fuzzy with angst about life and the future.

Thank you for sharing your journey.

Best 2U in all you do!
~Alice

WOW.....You two are fabulous!!! You guys need a big hug for where you both have ended up so far!

I love reading peoples evolutions and both of you have changed big time!!!

Big loves to you both,
ER

Jean, I congratulate you on your progress. reading what you just wrote has brought an understanding for me as well, in understanding why my friend would rather devalue people and run to new steadies/friends the moment she's faced with the consequences of her actions or of a lie. as you eloquently put it, she's basically just afraid to face the consequences.

now I can see more from her perspective. if she's so incredibly afraid, of course she wouldn't apologize or admit wrongdoing in the way I expected. my expectations of her were not at all realistic.

though it does cause others pain, I realize that it causes her pain as well. her entire life is in never-ending relationship cycles, those of rapt bliss followed by panic and then a let down. that would be a stressful way to live for anyone. I just wish she would see as you have, and as other HPDs on here have, that the only way to stop the cycles is to face down her fears, the demons of her childhood, and the consequences of how she has acted in relationships since childhood. but I'm aware that it's a very difficult thing to do.

Aawww thanks rooster

It's a hell of a process, very confussing at times too. I just love that there's so many of us here going through this together eveyone's at different stages and has different struggles from time to time; but the fact that we can idenitfy with each other and support each other is something very special.

goodbyenormajean wrote: I’m studying my emotional response to the man in my life. This is going to be the hardest part. That faulty thinking that I’m so prone to. That emotional response that is so powerful and automatic. This is the scary part because those feelings of fear are so real. I recently learned through an argument that no matter how much I fear abandonment from a man that fear only increases the chances.

I think they say that self-confidence increases your long-term chances of success in anything, over a 15 year time period, but decreases it over the short term in any performance based event or even in financial sales. it's an interesting little factoid I recently learned. you sacrafice some of the here and now effect for the long-term.

- Thisislabor.

Jean,

It is really very refreshing to see that you are at a point in your life that you realize life isn't going to be perfect and you are just being you, and THAT IS GOOD ENOUGH!

I'm glad that I have been able to help you in what small way that I have, and that you have helped me, and others to compare, and comprehend the WHYS of how we got here and what we can do to get better and stay better. I wish you well in all that you do and that great blessings come to you in your life.

It took me a long time to be comfortable just being me. I have always had self confidence, but not self love. And in all my flaws and "crazies" as I like to call them, I am happy being me. I would not change me for all the money in the world.

Coming from backgrounds such as ours (HPDs) growing up, it takes a WANT TO, and self will and determination... and perhaps therapy for some... to get where we want to be in life. I still have goals I want to meet, but at least I am enjoying the ride while I'm on it instead of looking at greener pastures that might turn yellow after I get there.

Again, I'm happy for you Jean.
Scarlett

Hey everyone and thank you all for your kind words. I appreciate them and they are helpful to me and I am thankful to have a support system of people that I can talk to without the fear of making you feel sorry or uncomfortable as I do with my friends.
Alice,
I have looked into all that you have mentioned. I repress. I have mentioned before of my fear of continuing to do this after the discovery. At this time I have not repressed any situations or occurrences that I know of. My hopes are that the simple knowledge of HPD and awareness of my own actions and taking account and responsibility for them will stop the repression.
I also idealize men. I try to just not think of them but sometimes this is very hard and I will catch myself fantasizing at down time at work and when I am laying in bed trying to fall asleep. I know it has bad consequences but this has been a challenge.
I have used transference of feelings in the past. I am not sure at this time if this will ever occur again. This was something that happened that helped lead me to knowing about HPD.
I've also studied Harlow and Maslow and self actualization as well as defense mechanisms and the different levels of them.
These involve Freudian theory as well and the id the ego and the super ego.
There seems to be a lot going on that only time will be able to tell for me…tis sucky!
Earthrooster,
Thank you for your kind words. I’ve always enjoyed our talks on this forum. You are hopeful and kind.
Treetop,
I’m glad you were able to gain some perspective from the post. I believe that most of my friends and family tell me that I am much harder on myself than anyone else will ever be able to and perhaps that is the reason no one ever “told me about myself” so to speak. Your friend will cause herself much greater pains from her behaviors than she could ever do to another in her lifetime unless she comes to understand and search for help and understanding.
Thisislabor,
I have found that I have already lost some confidence in my work environment due to this disorder and finding out about it. I was always very confident at work. Yet I am delighted to have found some confidence in myself and that is worth the small loss at work. I’m not sure how that all adds up in the article you read but it was interesting to read.
Scarlett,
Of course you are a help! You have a good personality too…(wink wink)! LOL. Goals are good and I have read that you wish to open a business someday. I would like to do that as well. I wonder if people with HPD are natural leaders due to our personalities?
Thanks everyone for your continuing support and kindnes! Jean

Jean,
That's totally cool that you're reading some of the same stuff as I am, it really helps put things in perspective doesn't it? I often find that I can't help but be a bit fascinated by our mentality and how it deviates from the 'norm' (by it's development, not it's behaviour) and as I read these things, I can at times actually identify 'where/when' some of it actually occurred in my life. Do you see that too when you read it? Like, are you making those connections/correlations to the origin of onset? (I don't mean to pry, I know you're not nearly as open about the details of your life as I am about mine, and I totally respect that!)

I'd like to make a comment on this part, if I may:

I also idealize men. I try to just not think of them but sometimes this is very hard and I will catch myself fantasizing at down time at work and when I am laying in bed trying to fall asleep. I know it has bad consequences but this has been a challenge.

I do the same thing. I place my object of love on a pedestal and no other man can compare to him. He is my world, my everything and I don't want/need/desire anyone else and I want him to be mine FOREVER because he is my most perfect match, etc... I know that the general theory behind HPD is that we're suggested as tending to 'want better/do better' in our relationships (hence cheating) but with me, that's not the case, and I think you're the same way- right? There is no one better, because HE literally is the BEST in your mind- right?

There's nothing wrong with thinking highly and being devoted to your partner- that's a GOOD THING! BUT when it becomes all consuming (thinking about him every moment of every day, or several times a day, fantasising about him and the relationship you WANT to have with him [over thinking/over idealizing] and you start creating it better/deeper/more ‘meaningful’ than it is) then it becomes a BIG problem. You end up being lost in your fantasy and taking the relationship to the next level without bringing the guy along WITH YOU to that wonderful plateau of love and commitment. You’re absolutely in love and he’s still building up to all- right?

“Thinking relationships are more meaningful/intimate then they are???” (sound familiar)

A few things I can say here about this, from my own personal learning/growth:
My XBF once told me, "You can't go from beginning to happy ending, 'Alice' there has to be a middle." and it didn't make sense to me when he said that to me (a year ago) but it does now.
To better simply his statement (cause I couldn’t wrap my head around it, even though I thought was a cute saying) he means enjoy the memories of what's happened, live for today (in THAT moment) and don't look too far ahead.
What that means is- yes, good times are great and it's fun to remember and relive the moments BUT don't take them as something that means anything overly significant/symbolic/pre empted way down the road. Way down the road is a long time away- correct? You're not there yet, you're not in that 'way down the road place' yet, you're only here- today, and you must enjoy the past (because a good foundation is a part of healthy relationships and gives them meaning), live in the moment you're currently in (today is a special day and you need to enjoy it) and just allow for tomorrow to come as it will. "Yesterday is history, tomorrow a mystery, but today is a gift; that's why they call it the present!" Do enjoy your present, but don't over think the mystery- let it roll...
I hope that makes sense cause it took me a long time to figure it out myself

I really wish I could add something to help you with the repression Jean, that’s something I struggle with too.

A wise friend is helping me with some of these repressions, projections and transferences issues but it takes a lot of work and introspecting to make the emotional connections. One thing I can say here is that we’re not ‘unintelligent’ by any means- hell, look at the complex stuff we’re reading and understanding, we’re all very intellectually smart people; but our emotions are the issue. Our emotional intelligence is what’s been warped and to connect the fibres of that it takes a lot of digging to re establish the schematics and make deep/impacting change.

On the topic of ‘transference’ I’d just like to add that everyone does this- we all transfer emotions from past behaviours/occurrences/emotional impacts/and lessons into the present. This is the basic principal of building schematics- of all kinds, disordered or not. What happens is we are disposed to something (good or bad emo tied into a particular incident) at the time of the schematic development, and the impact of that source (be it good or bad emotional experience is tied to the triggered subconscious correlation) and it sets the stage for our future cognitions/ reactions to ‘similar situations’ and emotional ‘triggers’ for the rest of our lives.

You know that old saying, “Every man grows up to marry his own mother” and vice/versa? Well, that’s not always true because human schematics developed for the love interest is greatly determined by the idealization of how the individual perceives their parents. When a person ‘grows up’ their romantic search will direct them to the things they love and found comfort in during their childhood, and reversely, repel them from that which brought them pain and displeasure; however in a disordered mind this is not the case. A disordered mind (as we know) has been warped during the process of schematic development and works in an ‘un natural’ way which seems to lead many to find a future love object that will correct the parents mistakes and accept them despite their faults, someone the disordered can ‘make amends with’ and ‘attain the affection and support’ that should have been in the primary love object (the parents).

The process of transference involves many things and goes beyond the negative or therapeutic boundaries. It encompasses much of our learning, development, love, morals, vales, and choices in life.

We all transfer, because that’s how we learned how/where formed how to be earlier on in our lives.

Hope that too, makes some sense.

Take Care

Jean, I was so moved by your posts on this thread. I have had one of those days when I can actually feel the emotional healing process taking place. I have had some moving conversations today with people. I have felt connected and empathic. I am just about to go to bed but I had to log on here to say that you are doing well, healing, moving forward, and I am moved that you feel that I played a small part in this. We are all here to encourage each other and sometimes when we learn lessons, it can be a beautiful journey. Blessings and hugs to you