Are Most HPD's victims of Childhood Sexual Abuse?

My ex had stories from here to eternity... While I was with her I believed her versions, although I must say there was always a nagging doubt in the back of my head...

Looking back with what I know now, coupled with some stories I've heard about her, since then, it shines a different light on everything.. The stories about how SHE was still okay, but her GIRLfriend did the most outrageous things... Well, let's just say I know who that was about.. The stories where she went home with a guy but all they did was kiss, weeeell, you can guess how things really went. The stories about how she was sexually abused.. My god.. There seem to be so many! Sometimes it seems as if the guys she's ashamed about (because they turned out to be such drunk losers - with no money) all raped her, while she's bragging about the others (with fancy cars, high profile jobs and such) who in all honesty probably DID drug and rape her..

It's incredible to see how these people are totally f$$$ed up in their heads..

Funny about the rape stories... I did know a girl that was raped (and really was, there was a prosecution, etc.) and whenever she would talk about it, you could feel some kind of dark atmosphere installing itself, almost as if the lights around would get dimmer. And hearing her talk you could get quite a few hints that she did not enjoy the experience.


But I once knew a "party girl" that also claimed to be raped. But she seemed awfully happy about it. She talked about it as if she had won the lotto or something similar. She was always cheerful with a big smile on her face whenever she would say that she was raped. She would never mention anything that the other "legit" girl talked about, like the fear or pain she felt, etc. Of course any suggestion to report it to the authorities were turned down. We were thinking that it was probably her fantasy of feeling unaccessible and that people could only get her through rape, though I've been told that a simple "Wanna ###$?" usually did the job.

What bothered me is that it's really not a topic to joke about. It trivialises the story of those that really were abused, and it can also lead to false suspicions. There is always the risk that a friend, hearing about her story, might start his own quest to find the rapist. This would make any man that she came in contact with a potential suspect. And being suspected of rape, no matter how tenuous the suspicion is, is usually a "bad thing".

Also, while my HPD mother said she was not sexually abused, she told us that she had an extremely violent father, and that a few others in the family did get sexually abused. And the story about the father was true. He really was extremely violent. For example he would throw the children down the basement stairs as a form of punishment.

Which is why most of the mother's side of my family has major mental problems. In fact my mother is one of those that ended up the less affected. She is perpetually stuck in a child-like life, because she really did not have any childhood at all. But I have two aunts that are known to throw knifes at people when angry, one of which managed to splatter her own blood on the ceiling of our appartment when she was babysitting us. In fact that aunt always reminded me of Carrie's mother in Carrie, she even looked like her.

Peptron, I could never understand why I seemed to be waaaaaay more upset about her stories of sexual abuse than she was herself. She usually remarked that she put herself 'beyond' that in a very dry way, a stark contrast with the drama she displayed when somebody slighted her in even the lightest way.

At the time I used to be proud of what a strong woman she was, to survive things like that and be able to not look back.. I ignored the discrepancy with how even little mundane things could throw her off for days. Looking back it's clear that all things sexual didn't even bother her. Sometimes I wonder if being raped was validation for her: it must mean that she's greatlooking and attractive if that guy chooses HER for his abuse! Crazy, crazy, crazy...

Later on, when I discovered all her cheating, she used the same words she did about her sexual abuse, but in another context. Her words were all about how she was being consumed by guilt, tormented by the thoughts of what she'd done to me. 'Funny' thing is, she kept on posting lighthearted jinks on the facebook page of one of the guys she cheated me with. When I confronted her with the paradox of her supposedly enormous guilt trip and the fact that she didn't even bother to break off contact with this guy her reaction was: "I'm sorry, but I HAVE to put myself past what I did to you, or I won't survive it.. That's how bad I feel about it!". What a wonderful way to 'explain away' things

My god! I got out and lived to tell!!!

donlimpio wrote:Later on, when I discovered all her cheating, she used the same words she did about her sexual abuse, but in another context. Her words were all about how she was being consumed by guilt, tormented by the thoughts of what she'd done to me. 'Funny' thing is, she kept on posting lighthearted jinks on the facebook page of one of the guys she cheated me with. When I confronted her with the paradox of her supposedly enormous guilt trip and the fact that she didn't even bother to break off contact with this guy her reaction was: "I'm sorry, but I HAVE to put myself past what I did to you, or I won't survive it.. That's how bad I feel about it!". What a wonderful way to 'explain away' things

My god! I got out and lived to tell!!!

What they say and what they actually do are so far apart it is beyond stunning!

To say these things in such a chilling way...amazes me still to this day how they justify

Thanks everyone for your replies. I just bought this book called Recovering From Sexual Abuse, Addictions, And Compulsive Behaviors: “Numb” Survivors, by Sandra L. Knauer; I think that it will have a lot of answers into personality disorders.


I was a victim of CSA, but I'm not HPD. I do have a few NPD traits, but not the disorder itself. The book talks about addictive behaviors developed as a way to numb the pain, allowing one to focus on something other than the empty feeling brought on by emotional complications from earlier childhood abuse that the child did not know how to deal with, and later as an adult manifests as entrenched cycles of shame, compulsion, and acting out in the addictive behavior.

I recognize that I do have some compulsive, addictive behaviors that I need to address because of earlier CSA. It's a defense mechanism for fighting anything that is uncomfortable that I don't want to think about and face. I do this by trying to replace the not so helpful behaviors with positive behaviors, such as exercise and running, which has a cathartic effect on painful feelings. It's a constant battle not to slip into the old, familiar, comforting negative behaviors when I am feeling overwhelmed or stressed out.

I used to think that the CSA I suffered from was a recurring dream that I kept having when I was a young teenager. I then spoke to my mom about it, and she confirmed for me that it did indeed happen to me. Those images of what happened are still clear to me; it happened when I was 6 or 7, and I'm now approaching my 40's. You never forget.

Inappropriate and unhealthy sexual things that happen to people, involuntary or not, change the brain in strange ways. Dr. Judith Reisman says that viewing pornography restructures the brain. I believe that CSA does the same thing, maybe with even greater consequences because the body is experiencing it, not just the eyes.

Her paper about this can be found here:

The Psychopharmacology of Pictorial Pornography Restructuring Brain, Mind & Memory & Subverting Freedom of Speech


http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:KtR ... =firefox-a

www.drjudithreisman.com/archives/brain.pdf

Recovering From Sexual Abuse, Addictions, And Compulsive Behaviors: “Numb” Survivors, by Sandra L. Knauer (Publisher: Routledge; 1 edition (February 6, 2002)

P. 27
An interesting statistic indicates that over 80 percent of those who have addictions were sexually abused. This high correlation between addictions and sexual abuse indicates the degree of harmfulness of sexual abuse and incest and the lengths that these victims will go to try to deaden the pain of their abuse.


Pg. 7

Some survivors of sexual abuse are in so much pain that they cannot deal with their abuse in an open way.

- - - - - - - - - -

Pgs. 8, 9

Anesthesia is the term I use to describe the means by which the survivor of sexual abuse is able to deal with the emotional and sometimes physical pain of the abuse and still function on a day-to-day basis. It takes an enormous amount of energy to withhold the feelings of rage and helplessness that result from sexual abuse. Anesthesia can take many forms. Different survivors resort to different behaviors to relieve the pain of the abuse. All forms of anesthesia have one aspect in common: whenever the survivor is engaging in the behavior, he or she is so enthralled by the anesthesia that he or she is in a state quite similar to the trance state that is induced during hypnosis.

The purpose of the anesthesia is to take the focus off the pain of the abuse. The messages that the survivor receives from sexual abuse are complex and hurtful. Sexual abuse is a complete violation of a person’s boundaries. Nothing is more sacred than our bodies. To be sexually abused sends the survivor the message that one’s body is not one’s own, that sexual services are all that are of value in the victim, and that the victim’s feelings do not matter at all to the perpetrator. No wonder survivors need to resort to compulsive behaviors and addictions to numb their emotional pain. Sexual abuse grooms the victim for later adult dysfunction.

To survive the pain of sexual abuse, some survivors become experts at dissociation. Dissociation is the ability to compartmentalize experiences in such a way that survivors may not consciously be aware of specific memories and events that they have experienced. Dissociation is the ability to function in the here and now while not having to deal with past traumatic and painful experiences. At some level, a part of the survivor knows and remembers the abuse. The part of the survivor that must function in the present is spared from having to integrate the trauma of the abuse into present day-to-day functioning.

Not all survivors have the fortune, or perhaps the misfortune, of being able to dissociate. For most survivors, dissociation is not an option. These survivors must find another way to take the focus off their pain.

- - - - - - - - -

Pgs. 9, 10

The ways that survivors are able to numb the pain of their abuse are as numerous as the ways that they may have been abused. One common way that survivors numb themselves involves what is known as the trance state. By definition, the trance state involves the “looping” of thoughts so that persons are so totally involved in whatever is causing the trance state that they are unaware of other things that may be happening around them.

The need for anesthesia seems to be especially linked to survivors of sexual abuse. The anesthesia can take many forms. Perhaps the best known form of anesthesia is alcohol, although alcohol is not the only form of anesthesia that is currently widely used.

Drugs are very popular in the adolescent groups that I facilitate. Marijuana, crack cocaine, and heroin are the most commonly abused drugs at the present time in these groups. Eating disorders are also closely tied to sexual abuse. Younger adolescent survivors seem to have a higher proportion of anorexia nervosa or bulimia. Older survivors seem to suffer most often from binge eating disorder or compulsive overeating. Survivors are at a very high risk of developing addictions whenever they begin to abuse a substance. When the survivor’s substance abuse begins it may well be the very first time that he or she has been able to block out the emotional pain of sexual abuse.

Survivors may not only abuse substances. They may also develop compulsive behaviors that may deaden the emotional pain of the sexual abuse. The most commonly used compulsive behaviors include compulsive gambling, compulsive spending, compulsive television watching or video-game playing, compulsive overeating, and countless other possible compulsive behaviors.

Whatever addiction or compulsive behavior the survivor employs, the intention is always the same: to deaden the emotional pain of sexual abuse. Are survivors consciously aware that they are attempting to deaden the pain of abuse? I believe that most of the attempts to deaden the pain occur on an unconscious level. The survivor is only aware that it feels good not to think about the abuse for just a little while. The more successful the survivor is in using a certain tactic to deaden the pain, the more apt the survivor is to develop an addiction to that tactic.

Pg. 24

Kristie, a fifteen year-old survivor, summed up what this book is intended to be all about. Kristie looked me in the eye and said,

Sometimes we get loud and laugh because we are tired of feeling depressed and sad. For just a little while we want to forget and laugh. If we act different or talk about stuff that seems as if we don't care about what has happened to us it's only because we want or need to get our minds off of what has happened. It's like just for a little while you can focus on something else or do something else that makes us not feel what has happened to us and how much it has hurt us.

P. 25

When we hurt, we will do whatever it takes to keep from feeling the pain until we are ultimately able to endure and deal with what has hurt us.

The real basis of addictive or compulsive behaviors is our alienation from our innermost feelings and thoughts. If we are shame based and feel that we are "worth less" than others, we many engage in addictive or compulsive behaviors as a way to decrease the amount of discomfort we feel. As we use more of the abused substance or compulsive behavior we feel greater shame, which leads to increased use; so the cycle continues.

Hi Everybody.

My ex recently broke-up with me (2 months, although she left our home to go back to her Hometown just two weeks ago...).

After being completely stunned and lost to watch the brutal, insensitive and violent way she broke-up our 6,5 years relationship (living together almost since day one!), I got completely lost and confused.

It was just a week ago that I started summing 2+2 about all the things I always felt were "wrong" about her and I've made the "shock discovery" that almost everything on her "ways" checked with the HPD pathology (with an important "flavor" of NPD too).

don limpio:

"Her words were all about how she was being consumed by guilt, tormented by the thoughts of what she'd done to me. 'Funny' thing is, she kept on posting lighthearted jinks on the facebook page of one of the guys she cheated me with. When I confronted her with the paradox of her supposedly enormous guilt trip and the fact that she didn't even bother to break off contact with this guy her reaction was: "I'm sorry, but I HAVE to put myself past what I did to you, or I won't survive it.. That's how bad I feel about it!". What a wonderful way to 'explain away' things Smile"

If you only could know how similar to your's was my ordeal, regarding her need to beg me forgiveness and at the same time a tremendous and unbearable display on her facebook. I must say I ended up canceling my account because it was killing a little more on every time I logged in !!!

I started posting on the "relationships section". Please take a look at my post If you wanna know more...

Either way I'm feeling very relieved of finding this section and I'm going to start and write a little more here too...

Wish you all the best

Lones

PS: Fortunately with the discovery of my exe's HPD I also discovered my Co-Dependency and my "need to take care of others" problem and I'm willing to address it before I start another relationship.

Hi Everybody.

My ex recently broke-up with me (2 months, although she left our home to go back to her Hometown just two weeks ago...).

After being completely stunned and lost to watch the brutal, insensitive and violent way she broke-up our 6,5 years relationship (living together almost since day one!), I got completely lost and confused.

It was just a week ago that I started summing 2+2 about all the things I always felt were "wrong" about her and I've made the "shock discovery" that almost everything on her "ways" checked with the HPD pathology (with an important "flavor" of NPD too).

don limpio:

"Her words were all about how she was being consumed by guilt, tormented by the thoughts of what she'd done to me. 'Funny' thing is, she kept on posting lighthearted jinks on the facebook page of one of the guys she cheated me with. When I confronted her with the paradox of her supposedly enormous guilt trip and the fact that she didn't even bother to break off contact with this guy her reaction was: "I'm sorry, but I HAVE to put myself past what I did to you, or I won't survive it.. That's how bad I feel about it!". What a wonderful way to 'explain away' things Smile"

If you only could know how similar to your's was my ordeal, regarding her need to beg me forgiveness and at the same time a tremendous and unbearable display on her facebook. I must say I ended up canceling my account because it was killing a little more on every time I logged in !!!

I started posting on the "relationships section". Please take a look at my post If you wanna know more...

Either way I'm feeling very relieved of finding this section and I'm going to start and write a little more here too...

Wish you all the best

Lones

PS: Fortunately with the discovery of my exe's HPD I also discovered my Co-Dependency and my "need to take care of others" problem and I'm willing to address it before I start another relationship.