Response from possible HPD ex-gf

In this thread I describe a scenario with my possible HPD ex-gf who works in the same office as me (we were moved coincidentally very close to one another again in December...at the time of her breaking up with me in October we were on separate floors):

histrionic-personality/topic110276.html

Basically, she often comes into my cubicle to mingle with my cubemates which I believe is a way for her to stay on my radar because I don't believe she has any true necessity, most of the time, to come into my cubicle. One cubemate, MR (male), she only seemed to become chummy with after breaking up with me (she left me for her ex-roommate who is now moved out of state yet she still is "with" him). MR has been on my team (I am a lead) for awhile and only after the breakup did she start mingling with him, even when we were on separate floors. The other cubemate, TK (female), moved in this past week and already she has started mingling with her. Other cubemates include my manager, JW and a couple others she also mingles with. But MR and TK are the subject here.

So last week she came into the cubicle to offer Easter chocolate to everyone except me, later IMing me that she would have offered me chocolate too but she knew I'd have only given her an ugly look (based on a look I gave her earlier in the week when she came into our cubicle and asked me a question about joining a bean bag toss team). Just this Friday she came in to show MR and TK some more Easter candy...then later came to ask TK if she received an invitation to go out after work and mention that the night before she was at a restaurant down the street from my house (which I believe was a way to needle me to say "I'm going out without you Arthur.") So, I wrote her an email questioning her on this behavior. Usually she does not reply to my emails, but she did this time.

Here was my email:

I got your IM last week about you not offering me chocolate because you didn’t want an ugly look from me. I haven’t had a chance to give sufficient thought to how I might respond due to things being so busy for me at work this past week. In light of today’s occurrences, I’ll try now.

I don’t want to give you ugly looks, TL. I always wanted to feel like I was a good, loving guy to you. I try to reflect on where I have a part in our conflict and apologize when I realize it. I wrestle within myself what would it look like for me to be an honorable man toward you; I hope I can figure that out.

Meanwhile, I'm not sure if you realize ways you've acted "ugly" and insensitive toward me? You’ve said things to me that cut me to the core and shows so little appreciation for what has been in my heart for you all this time. Maybe my ugly look is just me feeling a lot of pain around things with us and bewildered by you. I know you are just wanting to do your job just like me, but sometimes your behavior at work appears you have little awareness how you impact me. This is the reason I wear my earphones a lot now, so I can’t hear you. Which is sad, because I used to love hearing your voice and laugh…it was one of the highlights of my day – you always were the highlight of my day. It is also puzzling that you ask me if I want to join a bean bag team, or re-thank me for a mug, or offer me chocolate, after you said I’m erased from your life, as if suddenly you being nice these ways instantly washes away the hurtful things you’ve done and said toward me. Maybe that is how you say you’re sorry, I don’t know.

Today, I wonder why you come into my cubicle to speak with MR or TK? I question your motives because it doesn’t seem necessary. You know I am there. Are you really wanting to talk with them? Or get on my radar because you want to stir my attention and get a reaction from me? Are you trying to hurt me because you've felt hurt by me? Why do you need to come into this cubicle and ask TK if she got your email and invitation? You could send her an IM? Seems to me you want me to know you’re going somewhere and it’s not with me. It hurts me because I miss you…and you know how I always wish we had more time together to have fun, know each other more…because I thought you were wonderful, beautiful, and worth it. Then you say you went to [restaurant] which is in my neighborhood. It feels like there is a part of you that knows what you’re doing will hurt me. Why do you want to hurt a man who only wanted to love you so much? I've expressed how crushed I feel. Why do you want to dig the knife in deeper? What is that about? (If it's what you're doing, maybe I'm wrong.)

Here is her reply...I feel bad about it because she truly seems exasperated...this is the compassion side of me for her...my words above have hurt her. Yet I also feel gas-lit.

I was invited over there for one Arthur by MR and TK came to my desk and said to stop by I'm not going to stop coming by there cause your pissed sorry you feel I never said sorry to you when I have several times! I'm truly sorry you hate me and feel I have hurt you beyond words Arthur! I have never meant to Hurt you really sorry happy Easter and thank you for picking up my money! I appreciate that

The gas-lit part is that I really doubt she was invited over by MR or TK. When she came in to show them the Easter candy, MR looked as if he was nonplussed (he's a guy after all looking at girly pastel Easter lollipops!) and TK did not react as if she was expecting TL (my ex-gf). When she came back again to ask TK about the invitation out, TK again reacted as though she was surprised saying "Oh yes, I saw your email, but I have other plans tonight...thank you though, maybe next time." So neither case computes logically that she was invited in by them.

It is interesting how determined she is that she will keep coming into our cubicle regardless of the impact to me. I see this as a couple things:

1) she is determined to stay on my radar because she can't quite bear the idea that she and I are totally cut off (and I confess I myself have a part of me that likes thinking she is coming in to be in my space because then I get comfort in knowing she must still have a "thing" for me in some way.)

2) she is determined that no one will tell her how to act or "control" her

Also interesting is that she says she has told me sorry many times. But that is it...she says "sorry" and I believe she does have awareness that I'm in pain and she truly feels sorry at a certain level, but doesn't cite words that reflect she actually empathizes with how I may feel...or thereforth cease behavior that is hurtful.

Yet I believe there is a truly sincere part of her that is wishing me a happy Easter, and wanting to be kind and offer me chocolate, or make sure I have an opportunity to participate on a bean bag toss, etc. But it is like she has an amnesia for the cutting things she said to me. And then when I write her something questioning her, like I did, she takes it pretty hard like I am mean to her.

The picking up her money part -- well, I have continued to pick up her coffee station money after she's gone home because there is a theft problem and she was coming up $40 or more dollars short each month. I'd collect it for her before cheap engineers who make twice as much as her swipe it and leave it for her in an envelope on her desk. So that is a way I myself try to do a good deed toward her though I feel hurt. So we both have our ways of trying to be kind to one another though we both feel hurt.

So I don't know. I wish I could have unwavering compassion on her and nothing dubious she does rattles me to a point where I hurt her back, though I don't mean to. But maybe it is important for me to question her on things and engage in dialog with her about it to the extent that she is able to. I just don't know.

you should probably have not included the first two paragraphs of that letter you sent.

... I do that same stuff too, attempt to admit guilt and find middle ground to hopefully work stuff out... but more and more lately I have been finding it to be a "risk taking adventure" that doesn't pay off well. It's hard to offer advice online about these people not knowing who they are and how they would respond in person.

just my thoughts though.

- Labor.

Well, I did reply to her saying that I was doubtful that she was invited into our cubicle by MR or TK as it doesn't quite logically compute. I explained I feel she was trying to gaslight me because she feels caught. I said that I suspect she acts as she is because of past traumas where she declares to herself "I won't be controlled, you won't shame me or get me down" -- as in her saying she won't stop coming into our cubicle. I told her on one hand I admire that she has that attitude. But when she is like that toward me I feel misunderstood, like I'm a villain...but when I put my own pain aside I have compassion. I questioned again if part of her determination to come into my space is so she can remain on my radar and capture my attention. I said even if she can provoke an email from me again, she knows I still care and that maybe that gives her a fix of esteem. Yet it is true a part of me likes the idea that she still wants my attention, because I still want hers. I also told her I know on one hand she probably does truly feel sorry, but part of being sorry is also to attempt ceasing behaviors that are hurting the person.

I don't know that replying to her, or saying such things, is the right thing to do, but seems I am compelled to do so. I think I struggle with not "taking her inventory" as time I spent in Al-Anon made that seem taboo, as you should only focus on your own stuff -- when maybe there is a time and place to assert yourself and say, hey, this behavior of yours is questionable. That's why I do try to take ample time to examine myself, and have tried to be fair with her and say, well, this seems to be my part in the matter. I just wonder, if you suspect something about another's behavior, but just keep it to yourself so as not to come across as being critical of them and in their business instead of strictly keeping to your own, is that right either? Because maybe the person needs someone to mention certain things to them or they may not ever have an opportunity to question if perhaps they do have something to look at.

We crossed paths in the hall yesterday, and I could not even look at her...it's like I feel ashamed and downtrodden...or like if I meet her eyes I'll be zapped frozen. I know I must have quite a sad look and I turned my eyes down. I feel this isn't how I want to be toward her. I should be able to look her in the eye like a man with confidence and composure...and compassion though she is the one who hurt me.

art -

i see this woman still has you captivated under her spell...i really think it's time you start focusing on healing instead of on her motivations. let's compare email sizes, shall we? you go and over communicate and she responds quite curtly, inclusive of telling you that she is not going to stop coming by (doing her job) and gave you a passive aggressive apology, i.e. 'i'm sorry COMMA but....'

you can wrap up whatever you have to deliver in different packages, but at some point it's going to end up backfiring. she's not changing her tune or her feelings. she's sorry BUT is the most invalidating thing...irritates the heck out of me!!!! continue to ignore her at work, stop picking up her money, keep your headphones on and focus on your work. do you have a hobby? can you go on some dates with other ladies? whether or not she's HPD, i see her as highly manipulative and that you cannot change. you seem like a very caring, loyal and loving individual and someone should be able to share that with you.

good luck art,

wineaux

Don't assume.
Don't analyze
Don't read into it
Don't look for meaning
Don't make contact with her
Don't care

You gotta disconnect your emotional hose from this chick.

The trick is to pretend not to notice her and not to care.

Do work on yourself.
Do stay busy
Do find a healthy relationship

Thanks again, Wineaux, for your concerned input.

i see this woman still has you captivated under her spell...i really think it's time you start focusing on healing instead of on her motivations...you go and over communicate and she responds quite curtly, inclusive of telling you that she is not going to stop coming by (doing her job) and gave you a passive aggressive apology...

Yes, indeed, I am under her spell. It seems not that unusual for those involved with someone who possesses at least some HPD aspects. I would only differ that she isn't always coming by just to do her job. Though since my reply to her, she hasn't come by for social reasons, only to handle something with my manager who sits in the same cubicle. At some point I will likely have to focus entirely on healing, but right now my focus is divided on understanding what things were about between us, trying to figure out the best way I can be at work while around her since things still crop up, and mixed with what does healing look like for me. I have a lot of grief. People process things at their own pace. This forum has numerous members who have 100s of posts about the HPD person they were involved with...analyzing under every stone. So I know repliers here mean well to tell me to "move on" and focus solely on myself, but...some people are still on this board years after having been involved with an HPD-like person discussing all the ins and outs. So, I don't feel I should be rushed or judged.

you seem like a very caring, loyal and loving individual and someone should be able to share that with you.

good luck art,

Thank you very much again, Wineaux, I appreciate your feedback.
wineaux

I got a little rushed on my reply, which could be as much to Atrium as Wineaux. I was taking a break at work when the fire alarm went off and we were herded out of the building.

I've had many people say "focus on your own self/healing" but part of that is to be able to come to a forum like this and examine the dynamics. So I am discouraged by aspects of some replies as if I should get over it presto like that. I don't think there is a one size fits all answer to each person's healing process or relationship model with the HPD-like person.

[quote="ArthurK"] So I know repliers here mean well to tell me to "move on" and focus solely on myself, but...some people are still on this board years after having been involved with an HPD-like person discussing all the ins and outs. So, I don't feel I should be rushed or judged. [quote]

I don't think anyone here judged you. I know I certainly didn't. I thought you wanted advice on how to get off the HPD merry-go-round with this woman. I misunderstood what you were looking for.

Unfortunately, when one is trying to move on from an unhealthy relationship it has to be cold turkey, as I and others here were trying to suggest. You can't move on from her, and still have your mind and heart in her HPD drama. That's all I was saying.

But you are right, you have to make your break when you are ready to. And there is a grieving process. It's a loss. And I'm sorry for your heartbreak.

Atrium,
Thanks for your reply. No hard feelings. I was just trying to clarify where I'm at. It's easy for a lot of people, those aware of HPD-like behavior, and those not, to say to just forget about her and move on...but never really that simple once your heart loves a person...and women I have loved are few and far between...so I believe I take a relationship falling out harder than some. Of course I can examine why that is and do.

Certainly I don't want to be on a merry-go-round with her...but rather I wish, particularly as long as we work in the same vicinity, I could be a "master of my domain" of sorts...and though I have deep feelings for her, if we cross paths, I can be honorable toward her, acknowledge her presence, look her in the eye...feel that I am anchored...not adrift. Maybe even be able to talk with her a little. You know, something to leave an impression on her, even if it is not to her conscious awareness, that I am a good man that is set apart. I think overall I did pretty well with her in this regard, but the last falling out, she said some things that hit on my deepest vulnerabilities and now I feel smashed. So how do I bounce back from that...so that no matter what she said...though it hit on my deepest struggles...I retain my composure and dignity? I want to be steadfast about my own value no matter circumstances about myself I cannot change. So it's not a matter of staying in her HPD drama, but still being a presence, and loving her, yet being able to keep a healthy detachment and unflappability. I want to be a bigger man than all this and not have my confidence dampened. I want to know intuitively at any moment how I should be with her when situations arise. Whether it is her coming into my cubicle for a real work reason, or as a means to see if she can ruffle my attention.

For me, this seems like an important growing opportunity I don't want to fail at...but I am...because I wrestle with putting my own pain aside. I don't want to stop loving her, just not be ruled by my own hurt.

ArthurK wrote:

Certainly I don't want to be on a merry-go-round with her...but rather I wish, particularly as long as we work in the same vicinity, I could be a "master of my domain" of sorts...and though I have deep feelings for her, if we cross paths, I can be honorable toward her, acknowledge her presence, look her in the eye...feel that I am anchored...not adrift. Maybe even be able to talk with her a little. You know, something to leave an impression on her, even if it is not to her conscious awareness, that I am a good man that is set apart. I think overall I did pretty well with her in this regard, but the last falling out, she said some things that hit on my deepest vulnerabilities and now I feel smashed. So how do I bounce back from that...so that no matter what she said...though it hit on my deepest struggles...I retain my composure and dignity?

I don't know. I think it would be hard to do right away when the heartache and the grieving is still raw. I would be afraid that she would keep re-opening your fresh wounds. I really don't want that to happen to you.

BUT if you must ArtK

Perhaps you could follow the Four Agreements:
1. Don't take anything personal: She's coming from her own reality.
2. Don't assume
3. Do you best.
4 Be impeccable with your word--don't gossip or bad mouth her (not saying you would)

This helped me get through an HPD moment with my friend.

Wishing you the very best!

Atrium