your role

Johnny-Jack wrote:Tylas is saying there is no such part in her system.

You can FEEL that you have any part you want to make you feel better and I do want you to feel better!!!!!!


I am saying -------

In my opinion and from what I have read and learned ......
We do not start out as integrated beings. A dissociative disorder IS the disruption of the normal integrative processes of consciousness that naturally occurs during childhood.



Note: In the future, since my LC does not read this group - I am going to post my Q&A where he is involved so that he can reply if he wants to and has control of his own words. I know he does not mind me posting things he writes, but it just seems more correct to do it this way. When I can write a whole post and not have him correct an error, then I will celebrate!

A bit more on this post at the bottom of this page:
https://sites.google.com/site/phoenixal ... -tom-cloyd

tylas wrote:In my opinion and from what I have read and learned ......
We do not start out as integrated beings. A dissociative disorder IS the disruption of the normal integrative processes of consciousness that naturally occurs during childhood.

No argument whatsoever with this. I think what you said is valid but I'm not sure how that relates to my youngest alter, whom I call the core, again without much meaning. If something called an alter exists at all, and I think the existence of the alters and dissociative identity disorder has been established to the satisfaction of most experts, I have a dissociated part who returned about a year ago as an 8-month-old.

When he began to come into the body, virtually all actions he took were like those of an infant. As the months have passed, he has begun to connect with other parts of the mind, particularly procedural knowledge, generically shared parts like what objects are and what you do with them, how to walk, better use of the hands.

As many of us have information about the arrival or departure or active period or non-active period for specific alters, this part went into hibernation at 8 months. There may have been passive influence at some time or he may even have been triggered but I have no memory and we have no record of that happening. Another part took over as "host" at 8 months whose behavior was significantly different and other parts were around at that time absorbing abuse events. This is not uncommon in DID.

Johnny-Jack wrote:No argument whatsoever with this. I think what you said is valid but I'm not sure how that relates to my youngest alter, whom I call the core, again without much meaning.

Edit: Oh... maybe you are not saying that what I think I am not saying. I am so confused!

No idea - what you feel is what you feel. My argument is that you said:

Johnny-Jack wrote:Tylas is saying there is no such part in her system.












If I had it right to start with....????????
I am not saying that. I can read that there must be a core self and thus that means those inside have that information, so to be normal we find us a core self. Those inside are not savants. They form stories just like every human being to make sense of things. This does not make it reality. It makes it their story.

Read the reply by my LC at the bottom of the page. It's harsh, but you might get it.
https://sites.google.com/site/phoenixal ... -tom-cloyd

It takes a while to accept. It did me! Not just this but many harsh reality he has pointed out to me. At first I quickly switch and parts inside become angry, but since we strive to understand, like I think you do, we began to understand. From that we have become all the more healthy.

Those same parts inside are smiling ear to ear as I write that last sentence.

I just wanted to post this for anyone that has a core and reads this thread. The core is real and it is important. There are some people that think they are the only one in the world that have the right answers. All I know is that I have the right answers for me and I am making progress.

Don't let anyone change your system but you and only with good intent.

Your system is yours (as a whole, belongs to everyone that shares your body). No one else in the world can tell you what is there and what isn't there. The system is yours and it works for you.

I have a core. It's real for me/us. If you have one too, know that you aren't alone. If you don't, then that's great.

Telling someone with blue eyes that blue eyes don't exists is pointless. Telling multiples with cores that there are no cores is pointless as well.

Tylas, you've written about "core self" several times and I know you've searched for it internally. I have no clear idea what "core self" even is. I've read works where the "core" is referred to (this is not equal to "core self"), but as far as I've read, or what I took from what I read, that core being mentioned was basically the first alter or a part who was there from birth, then some different parts/alters came into existence. Obviously alters are parts of the same brain, so we're talking about how a young mind developed dissociative barriers.

I know that many systems tend to be built around protecting this youngest alter part and some seem to hold it as a rather sacred center or such. This is an experience of one's own system and it's invalidating if it comes across as "the core doesn't exist," when it's not even clear what "core" means to them. Hopefully you weren't saying that.

I don't believe my first alter, Adam, is the genuine or true self or anything like that. He's a very young part of my mind and all the parts are me. My gatekeeper does think he's connected to the body in a different way, but so much is lost in translation, I'm not really sure what that means. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt saying you didn't have a core, and I was assuming you weren't saying "no, if you have an alter who you refer to as the core, you are incorrect."

If you're using some definition and understanding of what the word "core" means to you, that is going to be different from what it means for someone else, so "there is no core" is not a fair statement to make, especially if you're really thinking "there is no 'core self,' as I defined 'core self'." I have an 8-month-old alter and we refer to him as the core. It's a simple and true statement for my system. If what you really meant is "there is no 'core self' as I define it now for you and as I searched for it and here's why I think that," that would be interesting. I think you've actually posted some comments along those lines but the concept "core self" still isn't clear for me. If it was a misconception to begin with, maybe it's not worth the revisit.

Tylas, whilst you are welcome to challenge other people's ideas about system structure, you must be careful to do so in a way that is not invalidating or condescending to people here. You must remember that all people here are unique and experience their own systems in a unique way and deserve to be spoken to in a validating and respectful manner, rather than talking down to them, even if you disagree.

I have never once said that how anyone experiences their system is wrong!


It's not invalidating. I am not telling anyone they do not have DID or do not experience a core self.

I am saying that according to recent findings - we all begin - not as one whole self.


JJ - I don't say core self, core, original - I say anything like that! Whatever term you want to use. There are so many labels for this I would not try and use just one.

Tylas, I'm in the process of sending you a PM about this issue and will respond to this further there. I don't want this to turn into a debate here.

I feel like I should add that science and DID is dynamic.

I recommend everyone to trust their system. Irregardless of roles, terms, definitions, or semantics, if you feel it fits or is true, than it is. No study is perfect or absolute. There are always a particular amount of variables.

DID is very individual. If you find it fits you, aids in clarity or healing great, but if it doesn't ring true to your system, leave at the door; no harm, no foul.

Now, let's all get together, relax, kick back a few.

If the core were to become aware of all of the trauma, the mind would have no need for the boundaries that it maintains currently. That is to say that as integration occures when the core or network learns of the trauma, the core or main network cannot be made aware of the trauma until they can be able to handle such things.

We have many alters. Many of them are aware of the past to some extent. However, we do not allow memory holders close to the core. If their skills are needed, an additional split may be in order. We will allow nothing to taint the core until she is ready, which, I must add, she is not.