Alters as representations

Over and over and over again, my professional and I will debate this subject. Within it all I've lost what he is trying to say, and I've lost what I am trying to say. All I know is I'm trying to stop the invalidation, stop the belitting because as experienced today, the family gets very aggressive if they feel disbelieved.

2 points he makes:

1.) All alters are representations of someone - if not yourself, then your abusers, your siblings... whoever.

2.) All alters likes/dislikes and styles are YOUR wishes/desires/likes/dislikes.

Perhaps he does not mean it to sound as black & white as this - but that is how we have taken it. The alters aren't real people. They are just experiences.

For this reason the appointment with him today has upset the system a great deal.

Do you think he has a point?

What do you think of his theories?

Bourbon

I think he's an old fashioned b*stard who wouldn't know an alter was a real person if they found a way to get their own body just to shoot him up his f*cking *ss.
~Teen RAGE

Yeap, strong reactions over here, too. ^^;
Obviously, we very much so disagree with him.

1. Are you a representation of someone? No. You may have picked up traits from other people, but you can definitely learn from multiple people. Well, why shouldn't we be able to, as well? Maybe an alter can get our attitude from a family friend, their sporty nature from a cousin, their love of hot sauce from a teacher, their interest in bugs from a TV show character. Who whould they be limited to just being a carbon copy of any one of those people? We can learn and grow and develop like anyone else can.
Even if he insists alters aren't real, think of it this way. Writers come up with characters all the time. Usually, many aspects of these characters will be like people the writer has seen or heard of. However, that does not mean this character is going to be exactly like any of them. It's going to blend believable traits to make someone new.

2. This one is just stupid. We're not all just different version of the same person! We have different experiences from the host, so we have grown to be different people from the host. Think of it like cloning. If he cloned himself, pretty soon, all of his clones would act differently. Their opinions, likes, dislikes, traits, and wants would all change. He couldn't claim that they all wanted the exact same things as him anymore. What if one of them saw a cat claw someone's eyes out? Well, that clone would hate cats, but maybe the original, who never saw that, still loves them. He wouldn't claim that he hated cats because just because his clone does. Even if he found a way to merge with his clones again, it would be stupid of him to claim that he hated cats before said merging happened. That was never his emotion to own.
Again, if he's working off the basis that we're not real... tell him to watch a commercial sometime. See how easily his desires change. That's a human trait. We're influencable. Only core traits of a person are set. Everything else? Some part of you is always going to be for it, another against it, one apathetic, whatever. That happens even within alters. So no duh, if they like it, chances are you do at some level, too!
~Rage and Katherine

I think it's possible for his points to be true, but I don't see them as being true for every case. I also don't see them as being black and white, shades of gray should definitely be considered. It seems like he's trying to simplify fitting the pieces back together by saying how connected you really are. I don't see it as he's saying alters aren't real people, I see it as he's trying to show you how alters are truly all parts of you, and that together they create a whole person.

Focusing on point #1, I can definitely see why he would push this. Some people forget that while alters may be very different from each other, they are all still parts of one person. They all share the same body, they all share the same brain, everything. I can imagine that when people forget that their alters are all parts of them, it can make the healing process difficult, and so I think he's simply trying to remind you of that fact (though I must say, he could use different methods or go about it in a different way). He also might want you to try and recognize what your alters represent so that you can accept them further. I know I used to hate Kat when she called herself Kataki and was abusive towards me. She definitely represented my dad during that time period, and I hated her. Instead of trying to give her the love, acceptance, and listening ear she needed, I hated her because she reminded me of my dad. This, of course, hindered the healing process.

I just now realized that "Hannibal" is probably a representation of my dad, and my hate and resentment towards him might be what's keeping him out of my grasp, at least as far as talking goes. I know Rain is a representation of my mom, though she's very different from how my mom was personality-wise. Aside from being there to comfort me, being motherly, and being my guidance throughout life, Rain doesn't have much in common with my mom. But she definitely is the "mother-figure" in my inner family, just as Kat is still more of a "father-figure".
I also just realized that Kat's changes tend to mirror my father's. When my mom was still alive, my dad was overall a good father and we had fun together. This is when Kat was called Katherine, and she was like a big sister to me. She was supportive, protective, and comforting. After my mom died, my dad turned into a completely different person, swallowed up by depression. Soon after, Kat changed her name from Katherine to Kataki (meaning "Revenge" in Japanese), and became bitter, angry, and abusive. Both the relationship with my dad and Kat went bad. Now that I'm not living with him, my dad and I have an ok relationship. At the same time, Kat's learned how to heal from her bitterness, and changed her name to Kat. She's definitely not the Katherine she used to be, just as my dad isn't the father he used to be, but she's definitely nothing like how she was when she was Kataki. I wonder if that means anything...

ANYWAY, sorry about that. Getting back to point one, I think he wants you to realize if your alters represent anyone other than yourself, because depending on who they represent, you might have negative feelings towards them without even knowing it, and that could slow the healing process. It also might help you to learn more about where your alters came from and what role they play in your life.

Moving on to point #2, I think he's trying to have you realize that despite how different alters can be, they're all still a part of you, and that means everything they like, dislike, believe, etc. are all parts of what you as a WHOLE like, dislike, believe, etc. For example, everyone has clashing thoughts. A person might like one aspect of something, but dislike another aspect, and be torn about how they feel overall about that thing. Say someone likes how orange juice tastes, but doesn't like the after taste. They'd be torn on whether or not they like to drink it, because they both like and dislike certain aspects about it. Alters take that one step further and deepen the differences, so it can be harder to accept them as a part of you.
Let's try beliefs for an example. Cassie is Christian, but L.C. is an atheist and has lost her faith. I have to realize and accept that if I integrated, part of me would agree with the Christian beliefs, and part of me would disagree, so I'd have to make a decision. Alters seem to eliminate decisions for us, in a sense. We accept that one believes one thing, one believes another, one likes this and the other likes that, and we lose the bigger picture. We allow further separation by forgetting that no matter how different a part/alter of us is, they're still a PART of US, and thus what they think and feel is what WE think and feel, even if we don't agree with it now, it's what we thought and felt at some point in time. We need to accept that no matter how different an alter is from us, at some point in time we shared the same beliefs, likes, dislikes, etc. that they did.
For example, Kat used to hate my dad so much she wished he'd die. (She still refuses to refer to him as her/our dad). Cassie, of course, loved our dad very much and would never wish for such a thing. What Cassie needs to realize, what I need to realize, and what Kat needs to realize is that at some point in time, Cassie felt that same hatred towards our dad and at some point in time, Kat felt that same love towards my-OUR dad. They have to accept each other's feelings as their own, no matter how briefly they were felt and no matter how much they don't want it to be true. It's part of realizing US as a WHOLE instead of separate pieces.

I hope that made sense, and I'm sorry it's so long. All in all, I think your T has good ideas and means well by telling you these things, he just goes about it the wrong way and it ends up angering you. Perhaps you could ask him what he means by saying these things, or ask him to expand on them and explain them a bit. And I think you should let him know how you interpreted it, as being black and white and how your family gets aggressive if they feel disbelieved. I think he needs to be aware that you feel invalidated and that you seem to have both lost understanding of each other. Best of luck to you with that. I hope therapy improves for next time, and am sorry this session upset you. *hugs if wanted*

tomboy, you are truly a star....

your post has actually made me cry...

thank you

I like Tomboy's post too, and I agree with your Professional. He sounds like me. I don't have to describe all the details of the relationship that I have with everyone inside to categorize everyone! That includes me! I am no better or worse than the rest. We are Equal. We are one. Every like and dislike we have is a part of each other.

I have 20 parts of me and I know as well as anyone here that they are VERY real. We are however one! We strive to be one whole part like we were born to be. We will keep all our talents, traits, loves and hates, but we will still work and function as one.

-- Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:34 pm --

tomboy24 wrote: I see it as he's trying to show you how alters are truly all parts of you, and that together they create a whole person.

Yes! Exactly! I could not agree more!

Aw..thank you, bouron. But really, I'm not a star. I'm just me.
*big hugs if wanted* I also offer a shoulder to cry on. It's very tear-absorbent.

You are sweet though!

Also just popped into my mind... I read yesterday that ideal therapy does it's best to NOT separate the dissociated parts. The T's goal is to get them to work together and communicate, and talking to each one separately and treating them separately does not work towards this goal.

The author suggested talking through so to talk to everyone inside at once.


So realize, its in your best interest for your T to consider all your dissociated parts as part of you.

While I can understand your frustration, I agree with everyone who posted. LOL Teen Rage!!!

This is where I feel very different from a lot of people on the board...I can totally see all my parts as being me, not someone else. I try really hard not to refer to the littles as somebody else.

This is how I make it logic...it may not be scientifically correct or anything, but it helps me understand myself.

Everyone has a subconscious. Eating a whole bunch of food, looking back and thinking, 'wow, I must have been really hungry!' that's a normal person's subconscious at work. Even though this person may not consciously realize how hungry they are, their body knows, and sends a signal to the subconscious part of the brain that will eat anyway. So...that person's subconscious was the one who felt the hunger, I suppose you might say.

I think that with DID, the subconscious has just been utilized so much in trauma that it develops it's own personality or personalities, just as if it were a different person. That's where the true time/memory loss occurs. The conscious and the subconscious switch places for a moment.

Just my theories. Your subconscious is still a part of YOU. It has just developed way more than the average person's subconscious, that's all.

I think we all understand this, but the way it's worded might offend some. I don't get the offense myself, but it's the way Professionals do speak.

It is now recognized that these dissociated states are not fully-formed personalities, but rather represent a fragmented sense of identity. The amnesia typically associated with Dissociative Identity Disorder is asymmetrical, with different identity states remembering different aspects of autobiographical information. There is usually a host personality who identifies with the client’s real name. Typically, the host personality is not aware of the presence of other alters (American Psychiatric Association, 2000; Fine, 1999; Frey, 2001; Kluft, 1999; Kluft, Steinberg & Spitzer, 1988; Maldonado et al., 2002; Spiegel & Cardeña, 1991; Steinberg et al., 1993).

http://www.isst-d.org/education/faq-dis ... #dissochyp

bourbon wrote:2 points he makes:

1.) All alters are representations of someone - if not yourself, then your abusers, your siblings... whoever.

2.) All alters likes/dislikes and styles are YOUR wishes/desires/likes/dislikes.

Re #1, I agree. Alters are aspects of you, derived from your self at the time they were created, or modeled after someone important in your life: parent, grandparent, another adult, a sibling, an angel or devil, even a comic book hero or bad guy, Jesus or Satan. Or an important animal....

Re #2, I agree. Alters contain experiences, thoughts, feelings, and behaviors that are natural parts of your complete identity, but dissociated, repressed, disavowed, denied.

I do understand how, stated bluntly, these views can feel invalidating to you. Yes, if they spend time out on their own, alters can have very different life histories from each other. This makes them distinctly different. Yet they are all part of you.