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DID or DDNOS - the perpetual question...

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Re: DID or DDNOS - the perpetual question...

Postby tomboy24 » Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:45 am

Personally, I did not have time loss until high school, and even then it was rare. I learned how to control it over the course of high school, and have only just recently started to lose time again. (My thoughts are jumbled, so I'm sorry if this is a long reply). *possible trigger, timelines and talk of family, memories, self-harm etc.*

My timeline:
-Childhood, 5-10yrs: I remember things from ages 5 and up, though it's fuzzy, and parts I didn't want to remember got shoved into the back of my mind. Sometimes I'd deny they had happen, other times I'd simply refuse to talk about them or think of them (I'd even hit myself if I thought about them, trying to "snap myself out of it"). However, I've always had a separate voice/personality as long as I can remember. She was like an older sister to me, and I often treated her like an invisible friend, except she was always in my mind even before I'd pretend she had a body.

-Age 10: This is when my mom died and where I believe a split happened that I wasn't aware of until recently. I was alone when I had to call 911 for my mom, and I was alone at the hospital with her for a few hours until family had arrived. I remember I had to try very hard to keep it together when all I wanted to do was curl up in a ball and cry. I was very scared, very confused, and felt very alone. I ended up crawling under a desk that was near where they'd taken my mom and I refused to come out until family arrived. Things that didn't normally frightened me did, such as loud noises, people being near me, people talking loudly, open spaces (which is why I was under the desk), and strange places, such as the hospital. I remember wanting to bark/growl and even bite at people that tried to reach for my hand, and I remember whining a lot like a hurt dog would. I believe this is where Ray split from me. When I can't handle an overwhelming situation, or when I can't handle overwhelming emotions, she's triggered out, and reacts to things in an animalistic way.

-Ages 11-12: This is where I think my real splitting began. With my mom dying when I was 10, I wasn't able to be a child anymore. My dad was always an alcoholic, and without my mom, it only got worse. I also was now fully exposed to my dad, sober AND drunk, where before my mom often protected me from seeing/experiencing a lot. I remember realizing at some point in time that crying about being alone and being afraid of the dark (my dad was almost never home), wasn't going to get me anywhere. I realized that I had to suck it up, and move on. So I took that little girl part of me and silenced her. I stopped crying about wanting to be held, about being afraid of the dark, about being alone, I stopped every childish feeling/want I had. I took all of it, tied it up, and put it far in the back of my mind where I ignored it. This is where my little, Cassie, comes from. She's the part of me I ignored and silenced for years.
This is also where my separate voice, my "internal older sister", started to become bitter and angry from being hurt. Her name was Katherine, and she was my protector. She stood up to my dad because I was too afraid to. She took the brunt of the abuse and fights we went through so I wouldn't have to. Though I had no time loss. When I'd fight with my dad, I'd get to certain point of an emotion (such as fear, helplessness, or anger), and it's like a switch would click on in my head. I'd feel fuzzy, detached from myself/my body, and then I'd feel a change. I'd feel overwhelming rage (this was Katherine), and my face, posture, everything would change. I had no fear, and I couldn't control what I said or did. Afterwards, I wouldn't really be able to remember the fight except for flashes of emotion. I still can't. Katherine, however, can remember what was said and done during those fights. Sometimes I'd get so detached that I'd actually feel like I was outside my body and I'd watch myself fight with my dad.
Being home alone so much also helped Katherine really begin to separate, I think. I'd talk to her, argue with her, and interact with her often. I knew I was talking to myself, but I was lonely. I'd also realized that the responses I'd get from her were getting more obviously different. Her voice was different, and just as it had always been since I was little, I never knew of her responses. Whatever she said to me I was unaware of before she said it, and whatever she did (such as moving an arm) I was unaware of until she did it.
There are some instances with my dad that are fuzzy to both Katherine and myself, and I believe this is where Ray (who I was unaware of and was unnamed until recently) was mainly out. These are times where I'd run away from my dad, growl at my dad, cringe in a corner and whimper as my dad yelled at me. Basically things that were very primal, very animalistic, and they would happen when I'd start to get overwhelmed with what I was feeling and my dad would not leave me alone.

-Age 13: This is where a lot of change happened. Katherine, through being abused and abandoned, changed dramatically. She was now angry, bitter, abusive, and demanding. Her name changed to Kataki, which means "Revenge" in Japanese. She still protected me from my dad, but her anger was out of control. She was quicker to take control of me, and would come close to attacking my dad from the amount of rage she'd feel. She also became critiquing of me, often yelling at me just as my dad would. She'd call me names, say I was a failure if something didn't work out, and would often blame the fights that happened between my dad and I on me. Anything less than 150% effort wasn't good enough for her, and I wasn't allowed to make mistakes. I was ridiculed if I did. She also took to "punishing" me. If I didn't turn in homework on time, she'd hit or cut me/the body. If I didn't do what she told me to do, I was threatened with pain. True, she helped me to survive my environment, but I still didn't like it. We argued more often, and that's when another split happened. (Later on, I learned that an alter I was unaware of, "Hannibal", was abusing and manipulating Katherine/Kataki. He'd abuse her in my mind, and sometimes when she was in control of the body, he'd hurt the body. He'd force her to "punish" me, and he was the main source of her abusive behaviour).
Another voice, Rain, came forward to my awareness. She was Kataki's main opponent. She was my positive support, my comfort, my moral awareness, my guidance, my logic, and my strength against Kataki. Kataki and her would fight often, and though Rain wasn't stronger than Kataki, she was often able to at least reduce the amount of both verbal and physical abuse, if not prevent it. She was there to dry my tears after Kataki would insult or "punish" me, and she was the one who would treat my cuts. Kataki and her were like my yin and yang, and I'd hear them fight about every single decision I'd make, about every single thing I did.
This is also when L.C. split. She was the part of me that couldn't go on. She was my depression, my suicidal thoughts, my never-ending tears. She was the part of me that wanted to quit, that didn't want to cope with life anymore. When I fell down, she was the part that didn't get back up. She cut because of pain and overwhelming emotions, not to "punish" me. Cutting was an outlet, one that helped both of us at the time. She used to tell me, "I'm not doing anything except allowing others to see the pain and scars inside of me". She was the holder of bad memories, and often the one that would come out during my PTSD flashbacks that I was starting to have more of.
During this time, that little child voice I'd locked away started to come forward again, only to get silenced by Kataki. She'd yell at it to shut up, tell it that it was worthless, and sometimes threaten to "punish" it.

-Ages 14-15: My first years of high school. This was when I knew I had voices in my head and I could always hear them talking/fighting with each other, but I tried to ignore them and act "normal". I also knew that these voices had separate personalities and could control things I did and said, though I tried to deny because I wanted to be "normal". Oh yes, and this was when I found out that my friends didn't have voices like I did and that my home life wasn't "normal". (Before this I thought violent fights with your dad and everything like that was normal and not a big deal). So this was when I tried my best to act/be "normal".
This was also when I first remember having actual time loss. I was at a friend's house, and we were talking. I can't remember if it was about my dad or my mom, either way it was a sensitive topic. I remember feeling enraged with something he (my friend) had said, and then the next thing I know I'm lying down on his bed and my head hurts. He told me what happened: My voice got deeper and I started telling him how much I hated his kind (aka his gender), how he had no right to be talking about things like he was and how he had no right to give Cassandra/me advice. (I did say my name, so I said it like this: You have no right to give Cassandra advice). Apparently, my friend didn't back down, and they started physically fighting. I tried to strangle him, so he forced me to back up into the bed, causing me to trip and hit my head on his brick windowsill. He said my eyes rolled back and I went limp, so he laid me down on his bed, and that's when I "woke" up. The one that fought with him had been Kataki. It was the first time she'd taken complete control and I didn't remember anything that had happened while she was out.
When I got my first boyfriend, Cassie burst forward from the back of my mind. All the things that she wanted, like being held or hugged or comforted, she was able to find in my boyfriend and I couldn't ignore her anymore. Though she didn't feel safe enough to fully come out unless I was alone, her voice was still there.
When I was 15, I started noticing small gaps. Like, I wouldn't remember cutting myself, or I wouldn't remember yelling at someone, but nothing that lasted more than 5-10 minutes. Since I'd always had a faulty memory anyway, I though it was just me being forgetful.

-Age 16: This is when my world fell apart. I blew out my knee in soccer tryouts, and wasn't able to play soccer or be in marching band. Without my activity outlets, I became very stressed and anxious. I was failing all my classes from bad starts with summer homework, and when the first progress report cards came out, I was no longer a straight A student. I was failing almost all classes. This hit me hard. I snapped one day when my dad hadn't been home all night or for the next morning. L.C. came out, and I watched as she cut my/her arms repeatedly. I'd been txting friend about how I was feeling and about being close to "snapping", and they were worried when I/L.C. didn't reply. They told the school counselor, who called police, who came and took me to the hospital. The state removed me from my dad's care and the hospital psychiatrist told my aunt (who I was going to be living with) to get me into therapy/counseling. She did so.
My voices were out of control. I couldn't tune them out anymore, I couldn't focus or concentrate, and I kept getting flashes/waves of emotions that would come out of nowhere. I was still allowed to visit my dad, and during one visit, a voice told me/forced me to run away during the night. It was a male's voice I hadn't heard before, and I felt very distant and as if it was a dream as I packed my backpack and snuck out the back door. (It turned out to be "Hannibal's" voice I had heard).
The first psychiatrist I saw didn't believe me when I said I might have DID (I'd learned about in in psychology class). This enraged Kataki, and I lost time once again. Apparently Kataki came out and was yelling at the psychiatrist, saying things like "you think I don't exist". My aunt was in the room as well, and was very scared. She told my grandma that it was like I was a completely different person. My voice was different, my eyes were mean/cold, I moved differently, stood differently, everything. Even after this, my psychiatrist diagnosed me as "possible DID".
Later, I was also diagnosed with depression, post traumatic stress disorder, anxiety problems, and rapid cycling bipolar disorder.

-Ages 17-18: I started to recover from my bad year in school, and with counseling and my psychology classes, I was starting to learn more about myself and learn how to control and communicate with my voices, that I now knew were alters/personalities. I still experienced gaps in my memory, especially when I was 18, but I thought that was mainly due to starting to drink alcohol and smoke pot. Later, I learned it was due to an alter of mine that was called Rebel. She was also responsible for times when I'd go into the mall and come out with a bag full of things I didn't remember taking but I also didn't pay for. She loved to break rules, and loved to sneak out at night and go drinking/smoking with friends (this explains times when I wouldn't remember sneaking out but all of a sudden I'd be hanging out with friends at 1am).
Side note: Over the years, I'd also experience partial time loss with boyfriends. Kataki saw relationships as pointless and hated males in general. She didn't want me being "dependent" on anyone. She's take control and cheat on my boyfriends with other guys, and then tell me and/or them what she did later in an attempt to make them leave me. I'd often remember starting it, ie the first kiss or something, and thinking "No, this isn't what I want, why am I doing this" and then Kataki would fully take over. When I'd confirm it to be true, I'd tell my current boyfriend and apologize, and let them know it wasn't "me" who was doing it.

-Age 19: This is when I gained most of my control over conscious switching and co-hosting, and also when I started to experience major but rare time loss when an alter was triggered out. Before when an alter was triggered by something, I'd still be there but I'd be very detached from myself and I'd see things as if they were in a fog and everything I'd hear was muffled. It was like everything wasn't really happening. Now, when an alter was triggered, I'd see blackness, or a wall. The wall was a mental block and myself and my alters learned to control when not triggered. It basically kept the others out while myself or an alter was in control. If I didn't want Cassie hearing/seeing anything, I'd put up a "wall". Often when triggered, the wall would be put up reflexively, and it was hard to get through if the alter that was out didn't realize it was up. The blackness became known to myself and my alters as "The Darkness". It was like a black maze that we had to wander around in to try and "find" our way back to "consciousness". We can't hear, see, or smell anything while in "The Darkness", and we can only "feel" with the hands we have in my mind/in the "maze". We can't feel anything done to us in the real world, such as if someone pinched us. However, time loss was still rare, as triggers only lasted for a few minutes at most, and "The Darkness" only happened with anxiety/panic attacks. Kataki stopped being abusive and started to act like she did when she was called Katherine. She's still often full of anger, but it's rarely directed at me now. She now goes by the name Kat. Rain has become more of a "gatekeeper", and helps regulate our system and looks after the other alters, such as Cassie.

-Age 20: This is where I'm at now. Time loss stopped completely for a good amount of time between 19 and 20, but it has started up again. However, the time loss caused by anxiety/panic attacks is still rare. I have much more awareness and control over my alters, as well as over conscious switching, co-hosting, and switches caused by triggers. Everyone is aware of everything that goes on every day, either through co-hosting or being "open" mentally or sharing memories after the fact. (The only one that comes and goes is "Hannibal", and he doesn't consider himself to be a part of my mind/body anyway). However, I'm starting to realize that just when I thought I had everything figured out, I don't. I now have a new little alter that's surfaced, Gertrude, and I suspect Rebel to be the one that's causing the most recent time loss as she's re-surfacing.

I have no idea if this helps at all, but I thought it might help to realize that not everyone has noticeable time loss/amnesia, but they can still have very real alters. I know most of my time loss throughout my life I'm realizing was in small gaps or was temporarily forced through denial, but it's still more rare than I think the amnesia that classifies someone as being fully DID.
I have no idea now where I was going with this post, so I'm very sorry. If I remember what I was originally going to reply, I will certainly post again. I think I mainly wanted to give you something to compare your own timeline to, so you can see that you're not the only one who doesn't really have amnesia (at least not common amnesia or early-on amnesia). So yeah....Sorry this is so long and sorry if it doesn't help at all..... :oops: :? :oops:
| Cassandra; Kat/Kataki; Rain/Riyoku; Shay/Shadow; L.C. & Luna; Ray; Cassie; Lynn |
| Prism |
| Marie; Valera; Phenix (Rebel); Dallas & Damone; Kyra; "Blank"; Bridgette; Cassidy |
| "Hannibal"; "Big Ryan"/Ryan; Keith/"Little Ryan"; Kuro |
| Hawk ; The Doctor |
| Aurora (mermaid), werewolf, silent one, black ponytail, Kichijoten, The Master |
| Maiingan |
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Re: DID or DDNOS - the perpetual question...

Postby Demon Lilith » Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:56 am

tylas wrote:I got a DX of DID today from my psychiatrist, which had been leaning toward DID-like DDNOS for the last several months.

There really is no difference! I feel no different what-so-ever!

But I will probably quit digging into looking so much at the difference between the two.


Oh! Good for you!

But of course you don't feel different, silly. Only the diagnosis changed. You yourself(ves) was DID even before the diagnosis. :)


And Tomboy24, wow! I'm sorry you went through so much.
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Re: DID or DDNOS - the perpetual question...

Postby dividedtruth89 » Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:07 am

Tylas, I'm glad you got answers! I agree with Judith Herman on the importance of naming the problem to the patient. It gives their experience validity and helps them understand that this is an illness that is not their fault, not to mention helping them feel less alone. I think that is what bothers most people who are given the DDNOS dx...it is too broad, so it is difficult to know if you can relate to others with that same diagnosis.

Tomboy I'm so sorry you went through all that... thanks for sharing your story. It is a great help I'm sure, to many...myself included! :)
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Re: DID or DDNOS - the perpetual question...

Postby sev0n » Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:51 am

Yes, but I hope everyone here wants a DX of DDNOS rather than DID.


The hangup we all seem to have is if we have been DX'd with DID-like DDNOS, but we strongly feel we have DID.

We just want to know for sure and if its not DID, then prove it to us, because we are not so sure its not! ---------------- but again I hope we all want the lesser of the 2 evils!

Healing is faster and we all want to heal!
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Re: DID or DDNOS - the perpetual question...

Postby Una+ » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:34 pm

tylas wrote:I hope everyone here wants a DX of DDNOS rather than DID.

Not me. I would much rather have DID than DID-like DDNOS. Why? Because for most of us DID-like DDNOS is covert DID. DID in denial. DID that is concealed, suppressed, evasive, slippery. Difficult to see, hence difficult to treat. Many clients who are diagnosed eventually with DID are diagnosed first with DDNOS; the "upgrade" to DID reflects progress in therapy. We progress from covert DID to overt DID and it is the overt DID that responds to treatment.
Dx DID older woman married w kids. 0 Una, host + 3, 1, 5. 1 animal. 2 older man. 3 teen girl. 4 girl behind amnesia wall. 5 girl in love. Our thread.
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Re: DID or DDNOS - the perpetual question...

Postby bourbon » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:40 pm

Una+ wrote:
tylas wrote:I hope everyone here wants a DX of DDNOS rather than DID.

Not me. I would much rather have DID than DID-like DDNOS. Why? Because for most of us DID-like DDNOS is covert DID. DID in denial. DID that is concealed, suppressed, evasive, slippery. Difficult to see, hence difficult to treat. Many clients who are diagnosed eventually with DID are diagnosed first with DDNOS; the "upgrade" to DID reflects progress in therapy. We progress from covert DID to overt DID and it is the overt DID that responds to treatment.


I agree with this. Now what bothers me is I am being assessed privately for DID/DDNOS later this month and because of how relatively new this all is to me I am 90% convinced the diagnosis will be DDNOS (following the SCID-d). Now if this is the case, "pending DID", then I will never be diagnosed with DID because in the NHS they don't diagnose it. Being thrown into the DDNOS category will frustrate me. I don't want to pay £1500 to be thrown into that category when I can pretty much do that myself now.

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Diagnosed DID in September 2011
Re-diagnosed DID February 2014

Our blog: http://crazyinthecoconut.co.uk/
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Re: DID or DDNOS - the perpetual question...

Postby sev0n » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:56 pm

That makes no sense to me guys.

You either loose time in the present, or you don't.

There is no covert or hidden agenda here.

Both labels should respond to treatment equally and both have the exact same treatment.
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Re: DID or DDNOS - the perpetual question...

Postby Una+ » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:28 pm

tylas wrote:That makes no sense to me guys.

You either loose time in the present, or you don't.

There is no covert or hidden agenda here.

Both labels should respond to treatment equally and both have the exact same treatment.

Think about it. The treatment goals and objectives are the same, but strategies and tactics differ. Therapy is much more difficult when alters are covert.
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Re: DID or DDNOS - the perpetual question...

Postby brandic » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:35 pm

Wow so many responses!!

Tomboy - thank you so much for sharing all you did. I don't have enough time at the moment to read and respond as I would like, but I will. I just want to acknowledge what you wrote and thank you for sharing.

I agree with everyone actually. I have mixed feelings about it - thus the post. My problem isn't that I think I have DID when I've been diagnosed DDNOS - mine is that I've been diagnosed DID and I don't think I qualify. Although I have experiences similar to "true" DID cases (of course I know each case varies from person to person), my experience isn't as clear. My parts aren't as "distinct" in the sense that they have experiences and memories that are COMPLETELY their own. They may hold their own feelings and have their own thoughts, but they don't have their own memories. Thus, the not losing time bit. That's why I feel I have DDNOS and not DID.

The most confusing thing is that I remember so little from so much of my life. If I don't remember, then does that mean a part of me does?
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Brandic (me), Asher, RAGE, Samantha, young violent part, young me (scared part), protector (semi-mute), "the part who feels no pain"

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Re: DID or DDNOS - the perpetual question...

Postby sev0n » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:46 pm

We are the same....

They do have their own experiences and memories. You and I are just not at the point yet where we know what they are.

Those with DDNOS on the other hand are a bit more knowledgeable than us. They have better communication, etc... They are farther along in healing. I think you are thiking backwards from what you should be thinking.

If you do not loose time, parts of your day in current time, you should not have the DX of DID.

DDNOS means you have better communication and know your alters better.

DID means you are not far in your healing at all, as I am and it sounds like you are.


Una... Are you saying if you have a DX of DDNOS then your alters hide? I am still confused by this? Sometimes I do feel I want the worst thing possible because I feel I deserve it after what I went through even though I don't remember it. That is just me feeling sorry for myself though. Can you explain better so I understand. Covert is hidden. The goal in this whole thing is for alters to stay hidden. Given a DX of DID will not make them stand up and be accounted for? Am I even on the right track of understanding what you are saying? DDNOS is the same as DID without time loss. There is nothing covert about it. No denial at all. It's like having an illness but lacking one symptom of another. It does not lesson the illness that is lacking the one symptom.
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