*TRIGGERS* - probably nothing, intellect vs feelings

OK, so yesterday, out of nowhere, I started thinking of some patterns (general memories) and specific memories that all of a sudden made me feel creepy about a very important person in my life. This person was, basically, the one constant in my family who was there for me, because my dad was in and out of my life due to my mom breaking up with him and my mom was never really "there," so I didn't attach to her at all, and her series of boyfriends and husbands were in and out all the time too. I was so close to this family member, I had to be negotiated with to not call her mom. She took me to her place every weekend, played sports with me, taught me to read and write, took me horseback riding, bought me stuff. I guess I might as well just say it was my paternal grandmother. She was basically like a saint, the best person in my life. I was her favorite grandchild and she treated me different than all the rest (I always assumed, because I was her youngest child's and only son's only baby).

***TRIGGERS Here***
Anyway, yesterday, I suddenly started recalling how obsessed she was about my hitting puberty. She was a JW and very obsessed with educating me early on all the things that were wrong and bad (masturbation, premarital sex, etc.). She was hyper-vigilant about me becoming a woman and took me to get all of my bras for the first few years, checking to make sure they fit right when I was trying them on and stuff. We shared a bed whenever I visited my whole childhood and then suddenly around ten, she bought a daybed for her living room and kicked me out of her bed. She gave me "the talk" at ten-years-old too and bought me a sex ed video (neither of which she got permission from my parents for, not like they were much of parents to bother with). Then she asked me every month from like 11 through passing away when I was 16 if I had gotten my period yet. She was obsessed with it. Also, some (too early) sexuality attitudes and behaviors as a child first happened at her house, but not involving her specifically. Lastly, whenever I showed interest in dating, she was very discouraging and protective, wanting to keep me with her. For example, I liked a boy we met at a camp ground and she encouraged my cousin (granted, two years older) to go interact with him and told me I should not.

Anyway, I started feeling really creepy when I was thinking about these things yesterday and crying, because she is basically my "ideal" person. Intellectually, I think that all that attention just made me uncomfortable. I was already really ambivalent about "becoming a woman" (probably past abuse I've had some memory stuff of) and her incessant pressure about that stuff was a lot for me to deal with (basically, dissociated feelings, not memories). Also, everything I *do* remember indicates she was a near-perfect caregiver to me, probably just trying to fill a role that was left vacant by people who weren't doing their jobs. Her religious attitudes about sex make it unlikely that she would think/feel/do anything inappropriate. Also, statistically, sexual abuse is less likely in women and especially female family members. Not impossible, but highly improbably. Yet, I still feel so creepy and icky and like something is there and feel like it is impossible, not allowable and unsurvivable (like if something bad like that was true, it would literally kill me). So, now I am locked in this battle of thinking it's nothing and she just made me feel really uncomfortable, which was not something I was able to deal with, since she was the only "trusted" family member at the time, and feeling really, really creepy when I remember these years of being obsessed with my sexual education.

Anyway, thinking all of that through, one of my alters came to the surface and we started crying and wanting to act out in triggery ways I won't mention here. What do you do when you know something is nothing, but you feel there is something? Especially when the very tiny chance that there is something is not something you're willing to know at all?

Just a warning, I may have to take this down, because I'm already getting a lot of CT (caretaker) feedback about what a dirty, little liar I am and how no one will believe me. WTF?

Yet, I still feel so creepy and icky and like something is there and feel like it is impossible, not allowable and unsurvivable (like if something bad like that was true, it would literally kill me).

Yakusoku, those words are so very familiar to me. I hesitate to say more except that you are stronger than you realize and if there is something there, you can and will deal with it.

What do you do when you know something is nothing, but you feel there is something?

I've found the best thing to do is to prepare and wait. Ask for help internally. Go ahead and imagine the absolute worst very briefly and remind yourself that you can survive knowing that because you've already survived so much. Ask for any memories that may apply, but request that, if possible, they come slowly at a pace and when and where you can handle it.

We're all on this road together. The fact is that whatever happened to us, we already survived it, and part of us does remember. Now we need the care and support and healing that we were denied when we were little children.

*Triggers*

I just want to say yakusoku that your caregiver (I forgot the relation to you I apologize) sounds EXACTLY like my mother. It's crazy to think that someone else had a similar upbringing. The early attention to sex (the "talk" given at age 7 for me), the bra fittings, the obsession about puberty. I remember when I was I think 11 I shaved my legs for the first time, without her consent, and I told her that I did it because I was ready to be a "big girl" and she cried hysterically in the bath. Like literally, sobbing and throwing herself around like a child, because I did an "adult thing" and I had to promise her that I would never, ever do it again. Before I even lost my virginity she monitored my period cycle (within the first year of getting it between ages 12-13) and prompted pregnancy tests if it didn't come exactly 28 days later. What the f*ck?

I don't understand how caregivers can think that controlling a child's development will benefit them in ANY way when they get older. Adulthood is nothing to be ashamed of, and there is no stopping it from coming to any young child. It will happen, sex and sexuality is inevitable, and one way or another they will have to learn about it (without bashing it into the skull) and it's OKAY TO EXPLORE IT IF YOU ARE SAFE.

What your caregiver did was wrong, as much as she wanted to protect you I believe that it was the worst possible way to do so. Fear, whether it is religiously backed or done out of control, is only going to hinder how you/we pursue relationships in the future. You have every right to feel creeped out and disgusted, even if nothing directly came to you as abuse it is still a form mental abuse to coerce you in a radical and unhealthy pattern, even if it is done out of love. By no means do I want to put down the relationship you had with her, she must've done a lot of good for you as well, but some things do change your perspective.

I'm sorry you went through the things that you did and believe me I understand everything you're feeling. There may be no direct physical abuse that you endured (or know of) but the mental issues she caused you is enough to be painful, and it's okay to feel hurt by it, but it was not okay to feel uncomfortable to the extent you were made to feel for so long. Is there any way you can talk to a counselor or a therapist about these feelings?

Thanks for all the replies, you guys.

I plan on discussing this with my therapist in an upcoming session.

I just wish I knew why I was so "set apart" from my cousins in terms of this sort of attention or why my littles are freaking out so much right now in regards to it right now. Something in my church service today reminded me of being at a JW Kingdom Hall (that hasn't happened in forever) and I had a full-blown anxiety attack and had to leave for a bit. I have to imagine it's related to whatever this stuff that is surfacing is.

I can't tell you why you were chosen. Like with my mom, she was the person you latched onto and got care from early on. Religion and sexuality can do weird things with a person... I know how you feel.
My mom was similar, but different in that she was obsessed with, but afraid of sexuality. She also wanted me to stay little/young/pliable/dependant instead of autonomous. She wanted to feel needed and wanted, and she was afraid of people who were not wholly dependent upon and under her control.
I remember feeling triumph when I dealt with my first period by myself, without telling her till it was over, because of that creepy, overwhelming, "invasion" feeling I got from her. I fought it my entire teen life.

There is something I was going to say but someone is saying it is probably best to let you come to terms with this on your own and "removed it". However, you are not alone.

Sometimes, it seems, when women especially do not get what they need, they seek a young person to fill that need. That's where the icky feeling comes from, because she was using you to fill a hole in her heart instead of being there to fill the one in yours, if that makes sense. You were so happy, it seemed so perfect, but somewhere inside you knew something was wrong, but you didn't understand, creating an internal fight.

You wouldn't feel that ickiness if there wasn't something wrong, I'd say, though I don't know that it had to be anything dramatic.

~~~Possible mild? trigger/controversial, might not even apply, but it struck a chord with me~~~
You mentioned a JH church? That makes me wonder, too. There is also the deeply-ingrained fear of supernatural displeasure that I had through and through. I was raised evangelical, but it was twisted way out of whack; my parents were into the calvary chapel/Jesus people stuff back in the day. It influenced things a lot in my house. They were deathly afraid we would "fall away", and... yeah. They kinda warped the faith.

I'm still deathly afraid of God, to be honest. I think of God and I still get this thick lump in my stomach and just want to hide someplace warm and dark until I forget. I don't know if I'll ever get over that, though most of me believes in God still. But the doctrine haunted me, amplifying the ickiness, giving mom an excuse to be manipulative. I would say more but parts are saying I'm getting too close to trigger statements for comfort, and you don't need that right now. [they said post a warning just in case. I can't tell what triggers very well. So just in case is good. ]

But... I guess I'm just trying to say you're not alone, and I think you're probably right.

[Endnote on the chaotic nature of the reply: We keep trying to fix/edit what the others say because we want to "get it right", and that NEVER turns out right. Our apologies; we only do that when we all want to help a wee bit too much. ]

Also, Ayame says you deserve a cookie, or some cake or something like that, or maybe a chocolate shake or something. Just because she did a lot of good doesn't mean she didn't do a LOT of wrong. That's a lie. It's ok to feel how you feel. Nobody should try to control how a kid grows up, especially with sexuality, because it really really really hurts them, even if they're not trying to hurt the kid. 'Sa thing kids are supposta find out mostly fer themselves, not havin what it should be rammed down deir throats. 's really bad fer yah. We believe you and I'm glad you can talk about it with your therapist. Good luck. ~Skitters off before rambling more~

Thanks, Aecy, for relating to me.

Of course, now curious what was edited out, but I will respect your guys' judgment on that, unless you change your mind.

But... I guess I'm just trying to say you're not alone, and I think you're probably right.

I wasn't quite sure which part I was probably right about.

***Triggers - religious stuff and sex stuff***
God spooks my little ones too. They feel like they cannot have people and God. That needing and loving people is betraying God. We had to ask our therapist to stop saying too much God stuff, because it was making them feel pushed away, like we can't need him or connect with him. That is really hard on him, because it's a big part of his life (and my life too, though not the little ones, who got very confused by being raised with agnostic dad, new-agey/Catholic combination mom and JW extended family). They think we have to be perfect to be loved and accepted. We also had to ask our therapist to stop praying right before we end sessions, because it feels like he is pushing us off to God and abandoning us. He has been really accommodating in not pushing the God stuff with them, but still being just who he is. He has been extra reassuring that he cares about all of us and wants to connect and wants us all to connect to God together and does not want to push us away or abandon us or leave us and never will until we choose to go. As far as me (host, I guess?), God is the only way I made it out of my mom's house alive.

Since before we got potential DID diagnosis, I've had some younger potential CSA sensory memories come up around one of my mom's boyfriends, so I'm wondering if my feeling icky about my grandma's attention to me in that way is partially just to do with past stuff that I have never been aware of the possibility of until recently. Like, I specifically do remember wearing bathing suits under my clothes to school, so no one would notice I was getting breasts. No one in my family got told about my period until literally years after I got it. I also spent a few years shifting between wearing baggy, boys clothes to try to be one of the guys and wearing clothes to get noticed by boys. A boy would start to like me and then suddenly, I would get all tomboy and reject him and say I was just being his friend all along. I think I'm understanding how that it was early alter stuff that I didn't get at the time. I have other "evidence" of knowledge/behaviors that were age-inappropriate that make sense of there was some CSA in my past. I don't think a ton...probably (hopefully?) very isolated, so I am lucky. Now, recently, I think one of my parts has been having lesbian feelings, because those have come and gone in the past six or so months...I don't know if that's related at all, but there was definitely a lot of ambivalence about my sexuality from a very young age and even if my grandma was only disturbingly interested and controlling, I don't think it helped me have the space I needed to feel safe to figure that stuff out. That, at the very least, I'm sure of.
***End triggers***

Please tell Ayame thank you very much. My husband and I almost named our daughter that (honest!), but I worried about people not pronouncing it correctly or spelling it wrong, so we settled on something similar, but a bit easier. It's a very pretty name and very fitting for such a sweet girl!

Someone was strongly concerned that it was triggering.
[Though it might have been one of those "Touches a little too close personally" things. ]

Something about fear of rejection is all I can get from em now, though.

Sidenote: Multiple insiders are interested, and got different snippets. I apologize if it's wildly off-topic or whatnot. >.<; Kinda happens when we get the "Too many cooks in the kitchen" effect.
Still not sure how to fix it. >>;

~~~~~~possible trigger~~~~~~~~
Ayame: That really WOULD mess you up, especially if the odd one out was the one who was your primary caregiver. D: I remember my younger older sister [I have 2 older, one younger,] getting her period and freaking the eff out about it. Mom "came to the rescue". I remember feeling really icky when I heard it all from the other room. [We were homeschooled from 4th grade on. On the upside, public school kids hated our guts and were dicks; homeschooled kids were all pretty nice and respectful, just... kinda distant, most of them. And mom wasn't as psycho when she had full control of us. But she was still pretty kinda psychoish and we were always at home, so yah. ]

I can REALLY relate with teh thing with boys too! D: I wore training bras till I moved out at 21 and got some used ones from my oldest sister because...well. I was afraid if I got older, mom'd reject me even more than she already had. would freak out and bolt if I sensed attraction from anyone. OH! I used to talk crap about how everyone was relationship-crazy and crap and all sorts of things. x3 It's not that we didn't want it, it's that we didn't want the stuff that would come with it, because a bf meant a LOT of mom interferrin and controllin and freakin out and all of that really really really not good $#%^ that we couldn't deal with, so boys were MAJORLY out. So I I wore t-shirts and jeans because, well, partly because the crap I took for anything involving them spending money on me, partly because mom's never happy with what I wear and it's just not worth it. But now that we think of it, we were afraid of gettin that kind of attention. We just hid the reasons from ourself.

[Someone else, unspecified] I thought mom was ugly and I was going to look just like her. [She looks about 20 years older than she is, because she doesn't take care of herself and all the stress and stuff.] I wanted time to stop, because if it didn't, mom wouldn't love me. She made lots of comments that, if I can remember them now, make me feel really sad and creepy and scared, because nothing was worse than mom not loving us, always telling us she didn't want us to grow up, giving us extra attention when the older two got in trouble for... well, acting their age during puberty... And asking/telling us not to act the same way when we were that age, etc.

Aecy: I think I know what you mean about faith. I... to be honest I tell people I can't go to church because I lack a consensus, when it's more like I can't go to church because I'm afraid. People with strong faiths have a lot of really high expectations, it feels like, that I can't live up to. Or worse, there are a lot of expectations on behalf of faith that I will feel I have to live up to and have no excuse for not living up to, yet... I cannot, since we are human and especially since I am not the only one here.

I, personally, as the host, struggle with it immensely. It got us through, too. I still believe, but the rest of me... well. It just didn't turn out the way I thought it would, this whole "putting us in God's hand and letting whatever happens happen." Then there is that dreaded dichotomy for us, at least, where they said one thing and expected another. Love thine neighbor, but disrespect and pity him if he does not agree with you on faith. Help others, but only in an effort to convert them, not because you actually care about them. "Convert" people, only to leave them to struggle and sink on their own, because once they are "saved", they are no longer your responsibility. There are so many things of that sort... I still want to live my life according to the real principals, not the way they said one thing and did another. But... I've learned to respect my alters, too, so I cannot push it or practice it overmuch.

I'm very glad to hear you've been having a better time with it than I have, though. First off, the internal feedback from "God" turned out to be alters, mostly James. I rather believe that if God is a loving God, He'll understand. And I think that giving your littles or non-christian parts love, gentleness, and understanding is exactly what is called for. If there is one thing finding out I am not the "real" me has taught me, that I needed to learn to respect and love people for who they are, regardless of their beliefs. But it's still hard, since it's so contrary to everything I was ever taught. Though on the upside, it has taught me a lot, and corrected some of my personal faults.

[Wraith: Aecy... well. She's modeled after a more honest, christian, loving, preferable version of mom. She is "mom corrected", so to speak. Both what mom wanted us to be and what we wanted mom to be, but she previously retained some of mother's major flaws so as to prevent her from rejecting us further.]

Thank you for sharing; we feel a little less alone too, now, to be honest. Most people cannot easily relate to such things. There just... are not many people who have gone through such things but retain faith, even if not all of them agree with it.

[Also, forgive the length. More than one wanted to give input.]

This will be long too, so no worries...

Oh, yeah, fear of rejection and abandonment is a huge deal on this end, so it was probably just a resonance between you all and us. Good to have someone to relate to in that...and I also highly doubt we're alone there, unfortunately.

Yeah, everything probably has some ***TRIGGERS*** so this will too, generic sex stuff, more religion stuff.
I guess I was lucky in that my grandma wasn't around every single day, but I saw her on the weekends. She was the only one who acted like she gave a crap about me, but looking back, yeah, she wanted total control and dependence from me. My mom tried to manipulate me into being dependent upon her, but she was never my AF (attachment figure), so it didn't work. Plus, she was just straight-out crazy. So the confusion for me was having a grandma who was so controlling and invasive over this topic and then living with a mom who had literally dozens of men in her life throughout my childhood. I am the third of six kids from four fathers and those are just the ones she stayed with for a while; she had us in two batches, so now we're 36, 34, 30 (me), 20, 19 and 14. The younger three are almost more like my kids (or mine and my older sisters' kids) than our mom's. Anyway, I went from wanting to date a guy from wanting to kick his @$$ in basketball on pretty much a regular basis throughout my teens. I had a really bad experience with my first (serious) boyfriend, who I dated when I was 16 and he was 23. I never told anyone about it and just thought it was my fault for freezing until I suddenly realized in therapy that it really upset me (yay, dissociation!). My grandma died a few months later. I've had all sorts of issues in this area, realizing they stem from really wanting a parental connection, but ending up getting a sexual one. Thankfully, I've been with my now-husband since I was almost 18. A lot of trauma there too, so it hasn't been easy, but we're working through it.

Anyway, not sure how I got off-topic there. My grandma was also unattractive (well, seriously overweight). My mom, though, is a musician/singer, so she has always looked young and beautiful. I don't know if I was trying to be like my grandma or not-like my crazy mom. I think I went through extremes of trying to get noticed and trying to not get noticed (like refusing to have photos of me taken for over a decade, mostly during my teens).

I am really lucky to be in a group of people right now who are very real when it comes to faith. My pastor is currently being my sponsor regarding some dangerous urges I get when a particular alter is up front. He and his wife have been so supportive and accepting. I even outright told him, "When I get like that, if you say God stuff, expect me to react badly to it, because I won't think/act like I do at other times." He said he totally understood that. He instinctively just offers friendship, care, support without pushing really hard on the God stuff (although, it's obviously there, 'cause he's a pastor). I think that it helps that his original calling was to work with children and youth (he is subbing as lead pastor right now), so despite knowing almost nothing about DID, everyone feels really comfortable with him. For the longest time, I never connected with anyone closely at our church, even people who I was in "community groups" with. I didn't trust it. I assumed expectation, rejection, etc. When things fell apart and I was pretty much forced to reach out for support, I found it was completely different than I'd imagined. That hasn't always been my experience in the past. I think it's really hard to take that risk, not knowing what kind of response you'll get.

The feedback I was talking about was alter feedback, not God feedback, although I have felt that once or twice in my life. My therapist has been so good about reminding me that all my parts are cared for, loved and accepted by both God and him and even their current rejection of that concept doesn't change the fact that they are special, cared for all the time. If that can get through to those little ones, I think it will be a very healing message. But, we really can't believe in it. We think it's just our therapist trying to say what we need to hear, so he can send us off to God and get rid of us.

I can get that whole modeling thing. I am the same way with my grandma, except with trying to give my daughter freedom to learn who she is, not allowing my anxiety to ruin everything for her by making her so scared of the world. Just loving her and hoping that through that (as unconditional as I can make it, being flawed) love, she has a model for how she can relate to God, in total dependence, feeling safe being helpless, feeling safe receiving when she has nothing to give in return, etc.

Hmm well if she told you that masturbation is a bad thing I disagree. It is very healthy for young teens and even older children to masturbate. It is medically proven to benefit the body and safely educate ones young self about how their body works and as well as a good form of sex education. As long as its done by ones own choice with proper privacy. It's also very healthy for teens and young adults. It shouldn't be a shameful or hurtful thing. It's natural. It also improves your mood, it levels hormone levels, it improves self esteme, it improves blood flow, its also a good way to burn calories. Whom ever would teach a child this is bad, well is not very knologible on the subject.