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Can an alter pass away? (trigger warning)

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Can an alter pass away? (trigger warning)

Postby LucyTate » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:18 am

Evan - 17 - Host, Original

Hello all!

So recently a lot has happened. James, a protector, and Michael, Original and Co-host, integrated. Hi! I'm Evan. This has been a real struggle but it's not what I'm here to ask about today (I'll be talking with my T soon about this).

Harley informed me that, during the large breakdown I had (or well Michael who is/was me had), Eli (Lucy), my co-host, passed away. Is this... possible? Is she lying? I don't know why she'd lie about this but I don't even know if it's true. Can alters get heart attacks?

During the episode, our heart was caused a lot of distress. I was worried the body itself might shut down.

So if anyone can let me know, I'd super appreciate it. Also, it's nice to be here, as Evan and all. It's a big step I think!

Thank you guys!
-- Evan, 17, NB -- Eli, 16, NB -- Natalie, 20, F -- Harley, 25, F -- Lilly, 5, F -- Violetta, 6, F -- Riley, Teen?, ? -- Jasper, 4-6 (cat years), ? -- Jake, 14-15, M -- Drew, ?, M/F -- Domina, 35, F -- Jax, ?, M? -- Tenor, 8, M -- And others
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Re: Can an alter pass away? (trigger warning)

Postby AmmeSO » Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:25 am

Hi Evan
hope you feel better soon. My husband has did, and this has happened twice to a protector/ ex persecutor who was out frequently. Once when he got into a huge fight with my husband, he was injured badly and 'died'. We didn't hear from him for months. He resurfaced after some time, to apologise to me and other alters he terrorized and went away again by dissipating into pieces. Then when the situation with family got unstable and we are in a crisis, he came back to help, this time he has reformed as a protector. He looked different, no longer scary but just tired looking. He is still with us now and working together with everyone. I don't think alters can die, but can go dormant when they don't feel needed or tired.
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Re: Can an alter pass away? (trigger warning)

Postby KitMcDaydream » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:17 am

Maybe it depends what type of DID you have?

For me new alters almost seemed to be created to deal with life changing events I was going through at the time. When those events were over with or again changed significantly enough those alters disappeared and new one's emerged. It just seems to be the way my 'system' works.

tbh I'm not entirely sure whether the original alters have died, just gone dormant or the newer alters are the old one's re-invented!
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Re: Can an alter pass away? (trigger warning)

Postby Sarandipity » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:49 am

Paul had a heartattack. The body felt it. Pain in the chest. He was basically consumed by anger.

Then for a while he was laying on the floor next to the body and around while it was mostly No-one. I haven't heard from him or seen him but I don't, I only know of him. I don't think he's died but I dunno where he is.
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Re: Can an alter pass away? (trigger warning)

Postby Amythyst » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:12 am

Hey Evan,

So in our system, we've had 2 times where an alter has 'died' and then sorta come back but as someone new / different.

Its kinda like reincarnation? Like they come back with a different name and they look different, and mostly they're a different person. But there's also some like, essense of the previous one still in there? Call it their soul or whatever, and sometimes the new one will have some memories of who they were, and some like, habits or similarities or whatever.

Every system's different but all we've read and stuff, tells us that alters can 'die' but they usually 'come back' again somehow.

Viola
Arin(22f); Charlie(6m); Claire(0f); Ewan(4m); Guardian(28m); Janet(4f); Kate(17/22f); L(∞f); Melissa(7f); Mike(35m); Nyssa(10f); Rebecca(∞f); Tegan(5f); Viola(17f); V1(22f); V2(16f); Waste(?); et al.
Dx: DID; previously depression, bipolar.(New) Journey ThreadThe Team
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Re: Can an alter pass away? (trigger warning)

Postby Sarandipity » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:39 pm

I can't remember if I replied to this or not or if my posts got timed out.

Paul had a heart attack. Not dead as far as is known. It seems alters can't die in this system, the body would have to die.

Host at the moment thinks it's possible that Paul and No-one and her are muddled up but it's not that or passive influences. No-one drops in and out as needed. And Paul was awake briefly the other night and then realised he wasn't needed and dropped off again.

The host is just very...ummmm... Anyway, alters dieing, not here. Earlier she was thinking it'd be easier if I died and got reborn because I'm an old man and do old man forgetting stuff, misplaced the house keys, that was the straw - last straw.

Mostly they call me Grey, which the twins took to mean like "a grey" like an alien, ya know those typical grey aliens. But I'm just old. Can't say when I got born in this body or why, does anyone remember their birth anyway.

I'll stop taking up your thread.
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Re: Can an alter pass away? (trigger warning)

Postby LucyTate » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:36 am

AmmeSO wrote:Hi Evan
hope you feel better soon. My husband has did, and this has happened twice to a protector/ ex persecutor who was out frequently. Once when he got into a huge fight with my husband, he was injured badly and 'died'. We didn't hear from him for months. He resurfaced after some time, to apologise to me and other alters he terrorized and went away again by dissipating into pieces. Then when the situation with family got unstable and we are in a crisis, he came back to help, this time he has reformed as a protector. He looked different, no longer scary but just tired looking. He is still with us now and working together with everyone. I don't think alters can die, but can go dormant when they don't feel needed or tired.


Thank you for sharing this story. It's very comforting to know, and this helped a lot. <3 Thank you!

-- Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:39 pm --

KitMcDaydream wrote:Maybe it depends what type of DID you have?

For me new alters almost seemed to be created to deal with life changing events I was going through at the time. When those events were over with or again changed significantly enough those alters disappeared and new one's emerged. It just seems to be the way my 'system' works.

tbh I'm not entirely sure whether the original alters have died, just gone dormant or the newer alters are the old one's re-invented!


This is actually really interesting! I've definitely had alters go dormant before, some are rather away right now actually. I believe this is different to that, this time, sadly. They're still there, just, not the same. Thank you for your reply <3

-- Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:40 pm --

Sarandipity wrote:Paul had a heartattack. The body felt it. Pain in the chest. He was basically consumed by anger.

Then for a while he was laying on the floor next to the body and around while it was mostly No-one. I haven't heard from him or seen him but I don't, I only know of him. I don't think he's died but I dunno where he is.


That's similar to what Harley said happened to Eli. A heart attack, the body definitely felt it then, too. I'm so sorry this happened to Paul. Thank you for your reply <3 <3

-- Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:42 pm --

Amythyst wrote:Hey Evan,

So in our system, we've had 2 times where an alter has 'died' and then sorta come back but as someone new / different.

Its kinda like reincarnation? Like they come back with a different name and they look different, and mostly they're a different person. But there's also some like, essense of the previous one still in there? Call it their soul or whatever, and sometimes the new one will have some memories of who they were, and some like, habits or similarities or whatever.

Every system's different but all we've read and stuff, tells us that alters can 'die' but they usually 'come back' again somehow.

Viola


This is very good to know! It'd be nice to have them come back, I don't mean to sound rude, but hopefully happier and more stable than before. I get what you mean, it makes a lot of sense, and I'll keep this in mind. They're still there, in the inner world, just more of a "ghost" of sorts. Thank you so much <3

-- Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:44 pm --

Sarandipity wrote:I can't remember if I replied to this or not or if my posts got timed out.

Paul had a heart attack. Not dead as far as is known. It seems alters can't die in this system, the body would have to die.

Host at the moment thinks it's possible that Paul and No-one and her are muddled up but it's not that or passive influences. No-one drops in and out as needed. And Paul was awake briefly the other night and then realised he wasn't needed and dropped off again.

The host is just very...ummmm... Anyway, alters dieing, not here. Earlier she was thinking it'd be easier if I died and got reborn because I'm an old man and do old man forgetting stuff, misplaced the house keys, that was the straw - last straw.

Mostly they call me Grey, which the twins took to mean like "a grey" like an alien, ya know those typical grey aliens. But I'm just old. Can't say when I got born in this body or why, does anyone remember their birth anyway.

I'll stop taking up your thread.


Well it's quite alright! Pleasure to meet you. If you're interested, I did get another reply from you earlier and responded. Thank you again and I hope things work out with Paul <3
-- Evan, 17, NB -- Eli, 16, NB -- Natalie, 20, F -- Harley, 25, F -- Lilly, 5, F -- Violetta, 6, F -- Riley, Teen?, ? -- Jasper, 4-6 (cat years), ? -- Jake, 14-15, M -- Drew, ?, M/F -- Domina, 35, F -- Jax, ?, M? -- Tenor, 8, M -- And others
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Re: Can an alter pass away? (trigger warning)

Postby KitMcDaydream » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:38 am

To OP

*possible trigger*

Another thing that happened with us when one of the alters up front at the time was so depressed they decided to ignore an real life allergic reaction in the body, so they could be 'on the other side' with a family member (in real life ) who had actually physically died..

our system simultanously sent everyone 'up front' at once causing the physical body to have an actual adrenaline rush (which is what the alter needed to go for A & E for but was refusing) This pushed another one into action to get up (alter had gone back to bed) to get more anti histamines too and this actually stopped the reaction in the body.

Only since this event have all alters been aware of each other, including child alters the host was unaware was in the system. before this happened only one new alter came out at once for a period of the bodies life to front for 'social life and work stuff'

so for us even when an alter 'tried to pass away' others within the system acted to save the physical body.

Kit & gang
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Re: Can an alter pass away? (trigger warning)

Postby Floralie » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:56 am

Parts can't die, not by making suicide inside or by being killed by another part. All parts are parts of one human being, and they can't just suddenly stop from existing. If you think a person with DID as a one person like we are, you understand we can't just suddenly not have a part of ourselves not there anymore at all, not more than people without DID can. It would mean the role that part had in the system would disappear with them, for example traumas if they're a trauma holder. But they do not and can't, not forever. They can go further away from front, that's the ability we have that healthy people do not have, we can hide parts of ourselves even from ourselves.

People do grow, but for people with DID it seems to be harder than to an average person to just grow and change inside one personality. We are in pieces, and we grow by either creating new parts while older ones go inactive, they go somewhere deep inside and rest, or they recreate themselves/we recreate ourselves, and that's how we grow and change as people. But that is normal learning thru live experiences and it happens when systems needs it, because things are different and we will be different too. Disappearing or "dying" can't happen when a part individually wants to, not as long as they are needed by the system and there's nobody to replace them.

So they can kind of die, because they can stay inside and not come out anymore or for a very long time, or they can integrate and what used to be them is now part of another part or several other parts, or they can remake themselves and come back like they were new, when actually they changed because they grew over what they were before and it wasn't working anymore the way it's useful. But those things are things that kind of just happens, and I believe it's in the end telling more about the system, than about that individual part. I don't think individual parts have a lot saying in whether they want something or not, although when it's time for something to happen, it can just feel natural to them, and feel like their own choice.

Part still can not inactivate another part simply because they fight and they don't like each other and one decides the other one needs to go. They can't commit suicide and stay dead, if they're still needed. They can not have a seizure and die to that, seizure is more likely symbolic. For example if Paul does go inactive after seizure, it's not likely to be permanent, he just needs time to recover from things he got to know. If he "dies", he will become back, maybe like he was someone new, but that new in him will be what he used to be (the "core" of him) + the info he got that changed him. If he stays away for a long time, it means he got to know things that are still unbearable for you to know, and system needs to hide them again, hide the feelings he has now, but system was not ready for. Then it will be for safety.

In our system parts do recreate themselves every now and then. There are some things that can't change, but almost everything can. Some of that stuff that can not change is weird tho, for example hair color. Jules can't ever be nothing but blond, and Ferro will always have dark/black hair. Those are things that can't change. Why the heck is their hair colors so important to system they will always stay? I do not know, maybe it's symbolic somehow, but it's certainly something that just belongs to them strongly. They can't dye their hair either, other parts can, although Lucas won't. But recreations are things that just happens, when things can't be like they used to anymore for some reason, and there's time to be something else than before.

For us I view recreation being same thing than growing is for non DID people, it's just normal changing over time.

These are just my thoughts about it, not the real truth of anything. Simply based to what has happened to us and how we've seen things happening to other systems.
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Leon M 4 (trauma?)
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Rami M 25 inner protector/caretaker manager
Anastasia F 26 inner caretaker, female sexuality
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Re: Can an alter pass away? (trigger warning)

Postby KitMcDaydream » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:59 am

Quoted from Floralie

"Parts can't die, not by making suicide inside or by being killed by another part. All parts are parts of one human being, and they can't just suddenly stop from existing"

I get its not physically possible but from Maddie's point of view, (who did not at the time understand she was just an alter within a multiple system) due to her depression and grief just wanted to be 'on the other side' she saw the allergic reaction as an opportunity to get there (she'd die from the body going into anaphylaxsis) this was HER BELIEF at the time, based on her emotions not on any physical logical facts of what was technically possible.

but because as you rightly point it's physically impossible for a part to die to or commit suicide, her actions triggered the system to 'reboot' if you like, because her thoughts and actions were putting the life of the physical body the others also needed in real danger. It responded by triggering an adrenaline rush to the body, the result of this also being that then all alters were aware of each other.

To protect the others 'Maddie' was then blocked from the front and led to believe she had succeeded in accessing an 'alternate reality' by the system creating an animal alter in the image of the dog she had lost and felt she couldn't live without. Maddie now lives deep inside with the dog alter she also takes care of the younger child alters and seems happy in this new role. Whether she will ever re-emerge in the real world as a 'front' again I don't know, the system may believe it would be too risky so in the real world 'Maddie' no longer exists, her social media has been closed down and no-one is allowed to use her previous online ID/persona.

This has created problems we had not anticipated though - real life people still trying to contact her to find out what happened to her if she died etc as they believed in the persona that was Maddie and unfortunately still see this physical body as their 'Maddie'. (No-one knows we have DID not even family) So for everyone else in the system its a real source of frustration that we can't just tell those on FB Maddie died and they accept it and just stop visiting us as if they're visiting 'Maddie'.
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