We feel like quitting.

Amythyst wrote:Thanks Sarandipity.

I realize I was unclear on one thing, or rather, I said half a thing and not the other half. The new headmate isn't homeless - she was kicked out as a teen but now she's got an apartment and a roommate, she's attending university working on phd in biochemistry, she's smart, educated, and has a future.

There's literally not one single thing in our 'real' life that I can think of, that is better than what she has in her own reality.

She's not delusional though - when she was coconsious with Viola, she understood that this is a different reality - here, her stuff is all just a dream or something. But from the inside, it's real to her.

I think our T yesterday was trying to say that the new alter needed to accept that 'this is real' and the other stuff isn't, but a) she understood that when she was here the other day, but still went back to her own reality, and b) Viola couldn't understand why it was important. Like, why would anyone want to choose sharing a bit of our life, when they already have a better one all to themselves?

If she comes back here again, she's not going to have her education, or her friends, her health, her future. All stuff she has there, that we've never had in our life, in our reality.

Anyways. I don't even know if all this is what's got to us lately. Or just coincidence. Or its just like the thousandth thing and we've just hit our limit and its all falling apart.

After being quiet all day I heard from V2 and we got into an argument over some stuff. And it reminded me that despite how mature she can act, she's still just 16 and isn't always very responsible. Same goes for Viola. Not saying I'm perfect or anything, just, in some ways they're still kids and not entirely responsible.

V1

For us it's better when the twins are asleep or internal. It sounds like for your newly discovered alter she is better off internally.

Beth wanted to be scientist, we studied Chemistry at Uni but it conflicted with others world view so it was sabotaged. She's still bitter about it. So I sort of get the dilemma from two angles.

Firstly she's better off internally and secondly it's not great to have a resentful alter - she's also depressed and agoraphobic.

The only way around all the individual issues I see, which I didn't see this before, is to seek integration.

I thought it was better, or it was generally thought in the system (I'm getting switchy) that it was better to try to sort out each individual alters problems before integration to avoid one massive problem. That has worked to varying degrees but they're all kind of stuck at certain points. Beth is as stated, Paul is stuck with rage, Mandy is stuck as a child, the twins are delusional, Karen is into BDSM I'm not sure what her problem is but it's definitely trauma related because she has been regressing back to age 8 occasionally, Peter is always left monitoring rogue emotions, Rose is convinced she's just a ghost, Patrick is fed up being male in a female body, Lilly I'm not sure about, the overlord is completely detached from the body although aware of it has zero interest. They're all kind of stuck and I can't see a way forward other than integration.

I do still worry it'll be more problems but I think if it's possible it's worth a gamble.

Maybe that's the way it is for this alter, as it stands she's better as she is. Do you feel you're at a kind of stalemate? That's how I feel. Can't go back, can't go forward.

Hi Sarandipity,

I don't feel we're at a stalemate with this alter. Its way too early for that. I think seeing that she's created a nicer life for herself, even if its 'not real' by our standards, has sort of re-opened fresh wounds in the rest of us, about the unfairness of our own situation and the aspects of our own life we're unhappy about, but can't do anything to change.

And there's some envy for her that she has this opportunity, but also some hope for her, that at least one of us could be happy and have their own life if she choses to stay in there.

Other people (singletons - therapist and best friend) seem to have a huge bias towards the 'real world' and discount anything else. Maybe its because they've never experienced anything else? Whatever it is, they think its a mistake to let this alter stay in her own world, they think she should have to, or be expected to, get stuck out here with the rest of us.

We think she should get to decide, and we think her world's better. I don't know what's right or wrong, but either way she's going to choose for herself and we'll honour and support her choice.

As for our own 'real' life here, we're simply not ready yet to grieve and get over the loss of the lives we didn't get to live. I don't care if it's not possible, I still want my own life -- and a body that looks like me, damn it! -- and I'm not ready to stop wanting that. I'm not ready to stop being angry that I didn't get to have it. Same goes for many others of us.

Maybe someday we'll be able to move on and accept stuff, but not yet.

Maybe that's where the thought about quitting therapy is coming from, or at least part of it. That if we're going to clash with our T about this sort of thing, then she's not supporting us any more, she's imposing her beliefs on us. Or maybe its just that we're getting tired of doing this every week and not really knowing if there's progress or not. Or it could be any of a dozen other things, I just don't know.

V1

Amythyst wrote:Maybe that's where the thought about quitting therapy is coming from, or at least part of it. That if we're going to clash with our T about this sort of thing, then she's not supporting us any more, she's imposing her beliefs on us.

V1

I think this would be important to bring up with the T--it's a big obstacle. Her job is to understand your experience from YOUR perspective first, and to really understand all about the new one's life inside and what that means to all of you. It's clearly very important, and a source of good feelings, and it isn't helpful for your T to invalidate it.

We don't have a similar inner world or inner lives situation at least not that I'm aware of yet (there are inklings of other parts who continued on one of the several different paths we've been on--went on to use our college degree for example, or pursued a different topic in grad school, etc), but I'm trying to imagine how my T would respond if I presented him with something like that. I think he would first want to know more about it--more about that life--what are the things that she enjoys and values, and that some of you also seem to enjoy and value and wish that you had. And he would probably be happy about the happy feelings and sad about the sad feelings--with me. He would take in whatever I talked about and add it to what he knows about me, so that he would know me better. And if it was important to me, it would be important to him.

I don't know--that's all I can come up with.

But I'm sorry you're struggling with this. It sounds really difficult and overwhelming. I'm sure I would feel like quitting also.

Hey thanks Gang.

I really hate to admit this, but I think we all have a lot of trouble talking to our T about T stuff, because its so much like talking to our parents? Like the T seems like that sort of authority figure or whatever?

And just cos how our parents like, raised us or taught us or whatever, its not allowed to talk about feelings and not allowed to question them and correct them and stuff like that.

So with the T we get those same feelings, like the words and thoughts can vanish from our head, or the words choke in our throat, like we're physically stopped from saying them.

So we gotta figure out some way to get over that or work around it or something. Cos otherwise we'll just let the little annoyances build up and not say anything then eventually we really will just quit rather than try and fix it.

Amythyst wrote:I don't care if it's not possible, I still want my own life -- and a body that looks like me, damn it! -- and I'm not ready to stop wanting that. I'm not ready to stop being angry that I didn't get to have it. Same goes for many others of us.

Yeah this part definitely goes for me too. I get like body dysphoria or whatever cos the 'real' body is too different from my own body. And like doesn't matter if we get healthy and lose weight and stuff, it's never gonna be me and there's never gonna be any way to make me not dysphoric about it. And I know what I want is impossible but ###$ it I'm not gonna stop wanting it.

T says I should just accept the 'real' body is 'us' and I dunno get over it or whatever but again, why? Why can't I want something even if I know its impossible? Why can't I keep wishing for miracles and magic to give me what I want? Who's that hurting?

Viola

Hey!
Just wanted to check in and see how you were feeling. Although I haven't posted here, we were silently watching and rooting for you. I hope you feel better soon.

Sadly we know the feeling of the T feeling like a parental figure you can't really talk to about everything. Are you otherwise doing okay with your T? If not, you might want to think about looking for a new T (if possible). It's a hassle, we are aware of that, but it helps nobody, especially not you, if you can't be completely truthful with the person that's supposed to help you with all of that.

We are all rooting for you.
Brooklyn

Hey thanks Brooklyn.

I dunno really how we are with our T. Like V1 said, there's been alot of little things that come up and we kinda gloss over them cos we don't wanna derail whatever we're talking about. I think Mike's got some complaints, but he usually does lol.

Its probably best if we do spend a session on this stuff with her, I guess. Maybe make a letter or note or something to give her, so we don't gotta open our mouth and say the stuff first, let her read it and let her start the conversation. Maybe.

We really don't wanna hafta look for a new T again. It was really hard finding this one last year. Anyways we've got appointments booked up to like middle of December, so unless things go really bad we'll at least ride out the rest of the year and see how it goes.

For now we got a bunch of boring work and chores and $#%^ to deal with today. Then tomorrow we'll contact the new headmate again, and see how it goes with her, see how she feels about all this various stuff. If she wants to stay 'here' or go back to her own inner world again.

Viola

That actually is an awesome idea. Maybe just write down what is bothering you when you have a minute and giving that to your T. So you can take your time and re-write things that you're not entirely happy with if necessary, while not being forced to say what you can't formulate or vocalize for whatever reason. That doesn't mean that everything in your note/letter has to be dealt with right this second but somethings it helps just getting it out of your head and into the real world / into the hands of someone trustworthy.

Rooting for you all, Brooklyn

Amythyst wrote:I think we all have a lot of trouble talking to our T about T stuff, because its so much like talking to our parents? Like the T seems like that sort of authority figure or whatever?

And just cos how our parents like, raised us or taught us or whatever, its not allowed to talk about feelings and not allowed to question them and correct them and stuff like that.

So with the T we get those same feelings, like the words and thoughts can vanish from our head, or the words choke in our throat, like we're physically stopped from saying them.

So we gotta figure out some way to get over that or work around it or something. Cos otherwise we'll just let the little annoyances build up and not say anything then eventually we really will just quit rather than try and fix it.

Viola

This is the process stuff that is more important than any stuff from your life that you would talk about, if the goal is to really change core beliefs and if (big if) this T is the right one for you.

Did she really say that you "should just accept the real body" as you? Or was it more of a possible implication or suggestion? Because it concerns me that she's saying that you "should" do anything. I mean, things are very different for us, but I can't imagine our T saying that we should do any particular thing. He wouldn't presume to tell us what we should or shouldn't do. Now, I might think that he's implying that we should do something--and then I would need to check out that belief with him, because he might have meant something completely different.

I'll give you a detailed example of how this happens with us, in case it's helpful: Last week, when he asked if we could talk about those types of therapy questions face-to-face rather than by email, we totally took that as meaning that we should talk about them face-to-face, and that there was something wrong with us wanting him to talk about them in an email, and that he didn't like having to write out his opinions, etc, etc, etc...and ###$ this we'll just never write him anything again because he hates it and then he'll hate us. All these things that he assured us that he didn't mean. It was just a preference he had, but he could see how important it was to us to communicate that stuff in writing rather than using our time there for it, so of course we could keep doing it.

And that was it. From his point of view, he was just wondering if we would be willing to do something he would prefer, but as soon as he saw how much it meant to us to continue to do what we were doing, then it was fine with him to keep doing it that way. Because our strong need mattered more than his preference.

But that wasn't true when we were growing up. If a parent wanted something to be a certain way, it didn't matter how much we needed it to be different. If it would inconvenience them, then forget it--it was their way or the highway, and if they did grudgingly end up having to do what we needed, it was with an attitude of resentment and dislike. So we expect our T to be the same way.

Anyway, I don't know if that's useful or applicable to you, but this kind of thing is where real changes happen for us.

Thanks Gang,

I don't remember how exactly how she said it about the body and acceptance and stuff, but that's how it felt anyways? That I should get over it, cos its impossible to get what I want.

Its stuff that I get selfconsious and awkward about and its hard to talk about sometimes, especially like in person? hate to admit it but we sometimes care way more what people think about us than we should.

And like, I 'know' it sounds crazy, or I assume it does, to like, normal people. I think I just started talking to her about it cos I was already kinda upset and stuff about the headmate stuff and trying to explain that just cos something's not real to us, doesn't mean its not real to them. Like, different contexts or whatever. things can be real within their own separate framework or whatever.

(I wish our philosopher friend was still friends with us, cos I think she'd at least listen and try to understand this stuff better, and maybe help us to define it more 'sciency' or whatever, with the right words and stuff.)

Anyways so I was uptight and feeling awkward and thinking she was already gonna think I'm nuts and stuff, and wanting something that's 'impossible' and whatever. So yeah, it really felt like she was telling me I should give up on that cos its not gonna happen.

What you're saying tho is good, and yeah the example helped. And it could be that we're reading into her words cos of how it was with our parents and stuff? Like things had to be their way, or else. And we couldn't express the wrong emotions or question/challenge them, or we'd get guilt-tripped and/or smacked.

Viola

To me it sounds like your new head mate can have both.

She can have her inner life and when she's in the body she can experience that too.

Most alters in this system have some semblance of both. They can fit in and function in our life out here but they have whole other lives internally. Most are quite ready to give up their internal lives but for them it's coming with alot of grief, internal destruction and facing things. The ones who aren't ready to give up the internal stuff is because they rarely have connection or are in the body.

I think your new head mate can have both for as long as they want. And you're aloud to be frustrated and annoyed and upset for as long as you want that the body isn't you and life hasn't gone how you hoped. You can do that as long as you want because it's your choice and nobody can tell you different - I think a bit of Mandy came through their. I couldn't think of anything useful to say and then bam it was there and with conviction..and I'm just No-one, all that was definitely more Mandy than me.

We can give you a philosophical idea about the whole thing, dunno if it's helpful because were often told our philosophy causes delusions. Who is to say that any one reality is more valid than another? Who is to say that this physical reality is the only reality there is? Science had started to bring virtual reality into being and it has many applications - who can say people will not live whole seperate virtual lives in the future and not to do so would then be odd? Small minded people may say your alters internal life is less valid than your own physical life but why..why are they saying that? - because it's the only reality they know or because they're frightened by it or because they want you to conform to their version of reality that is singular, confined to the physical world? The mind is the only true escape from physical reality - you have easy access to that escape which is enviable and not something to shut down or supreess or force into the mundane reality of the physical world. It's a death to shut off your inner world and force it to conform. Single minded people dream, they day dream, that's acceptable, a living thriving internal life is healthy, in our opinion, whether single minded person or multiple. Single minded people have a subconscious, they have an inner voice, they have unexpressed hopes and dreams - yours are living out internally, that's a positive. Also who is to say that this life isn't existing on some other metaphysical plane, that it does indeed exist somewhere - who can say that either way for sure, nobody, as far as we know. The twins.