organizing a system

Hey everyone,

So... I've always assumed that young parts are not actual children, and therefore can take more adult tasks upon themselves. A 12 y/o part does most (if not all) of our cooking, an 8 y/o part does most of our cleaning, and when the going gets rough it is not unusual for a 10 y/o part to take over full daily life for a while.

However, I think I may have asked/expected too much from them lately. I found a couple of messages saying that they are angry that they have to do stuff like this or else it won't happen. I feel ashamed that I (an adult part) feel too tired/depressed to step up and take care of THEM. I mean, I do work and socializing, but I can barely take care of myself/us apart from that.

The new T said that I should give consequences to parts who happen to come out at inappropriate times, and I think that these dynamics make it that I feel really uncomfortable with that idea. I want to believe (and I believe) that we are all doing the best that we can. No one is malevolent. So I don't want "punishments". Especially because I want us to all try and help each other.

I think maybe I need to step up and "be the adult", but I think I can't do it in our system. It already takes so much energy to do that in the outside-life. But would it be more age-appropriate for the other parts? Most of our system consists of littles (there is only one other adult and he's been nowhere to be found for the last year or so), so it would basically mean that I'd have to do everything by myself. I want every part to be equal and for their needs and wants to be considered, and I don't want a role that is somehow "more important". :/

Hi fireheart,

Yeah we don't do punishments at all in our system. I don't even know how that'd work? When someone does something really 'wrong' it's like, mostly we just shake our head and be disappointed. Or try to work with them to find out why they did it, like if they were acting out cos of frustration or whatever.

Our system is mostly young, but not all children. We're like, mostly teens doing the everyday stuff. Arin is the only 'adult' who's active and she's not always here. Plus in a way she's even younger, only being 'a few months old' in the sense of when she actually grew up and started fronting.

I dunno if our way of doing things is any better, but we basically just leave it to whoever is fronting to do whatever needs doing. We can't really do stuff like switch in and out for specific tasks, it's more like switching for days at a time.

And yeah I agree that child parts aren't actual children, but I think they still think like kids? Like, I think for our system at least, the littles might be capable of doing a lot of things, but I don't think they'd actually want to, or be interested in it, or do it well cos they wouldn't have the attention or whatever.

Maybe you can make those tasks your littles do, more fun for them? Or let them do stuff that's fun as a reward / to thank them for doing the unfun chores?

V2

we basically give jobs following the structural dissociation. it split some abilities to be with some parts. we also try to keep it age appropriate. eg Maya feels the body needs better than others, so it is her job to remind us to eat. she is not making the food.
we have the luxury of having adults to spare when it comes to everyday life though.
the thing I am wondering about is if you are repeating a trauma pattern. Did you have to take care of things as a child? maybe even with the truth that if you didn't take care of it, it would never be done?
cause we did, from really early on, with tasks that were overwhelming or so hard they were painful. if this is a pattern we would try to find a different solution or reframe the whole thing completely.

punishment is not a solution. it introduces fear into the relationship. you don't want to rule a system with fear. that leads to war, which won't make life more stable.
for us, parts don't show up at the wrong time because they are spiteful. something triggered them. there was a need. it was a mistake and they are scared about having made a mistake. it would be a lot more valuable to figure out what happened and why and how you can support them better than to just throw a consequence at them without offering the help they need to even stick to the rule in the first place. (maybe look at the DID-adapted behavior chain analysis on the blog, its what we would use here)
consequences add pressure to do things differently. they only work if the part actually has the ability to do things differently. otherwise you are creating a rule of terror.
so first, figure out what happened and why, support where needed. and after practicing that for a year or so with great success, you could add a consequence.

I don't think that you can just be a part among parts if most of your parts are Littles. The adult stands out, has different abilities and therefore different responsibilities. the adult can get help from the outside, but they just won't be equal with the other parts. I think this is actually the way to go, from what you describe about your depression and exhaustion. If you can't take care of things, get outside help instead of inside help in this case. let adults help the adult instead of asking the Littles to do that.
yes, technically young parts believe they are young and everything else follows the belief. it means that they can learn more about the world outside and solve more of the trance logic that tells them that they can be small AND live in an adult body at the same time. it means they 'grow up'. I don't think you get good results by just treating them like adult without solving the 'spell' of childhood.
it is tricky business, to manage life and the inside, when there are so many Littles and not enough adult parts. naturally it becomes overwhelming. maybe you can find help for at least the outside life.

Thinking out loud here:

SF and I expect our bio-kids to do chores. We don't expect them to work like adults though. They need more breaks, encouragement, fun time, and rewards than adults do.

As such, I wonder if your littles that are doing chores are less upset about the chores and more upset about lack of appreciation and lack of fun activities that they enjoy.

Perhaps the solution is appreciation, validation, and rewards? (And maybe a day here or there where you do their job so they can rest.)

fireheart wrote:The new T said that I should give consequences to parts who happen to come out at inappropriate times, and I think that these dynamics make it that I feel really uncomfortable with that idea. I want to believe (and I believe) that we are all doing the best that we can. No one is malevolent. So I don't want "punishments". Especially because I want us to all try and help each other.

Yes, this is yet another wrong-headed idea from this T, and your instincts are good. I agree with what others have said.

We have littles who take care of a lot of everyday things, but the more I've become aware of that, the more I've tried to have the ones who like various chores or activities be the ones who do them. And we use lots of incentives and rewards. My T says that he's "a big fan of treats," and that works well for us. They can't always be sweet treats, but we use other things like getting to watch a favorite TV show, little toys, or some other kind of reward.

Omg. Sorry. I just read the part about feeling bad that child parts of yours have to do things.

You're an adult. There's chil sewing football balls and trainers in some parts of the world and that's their real actual life as a child. You're worried because you have a few child parts doing some adult stuff. If you were wholely mentally retarded to a younger brain age then the aim would be to teach you to do adult things even though you had the mental age of a 10 year old and that'd be OK and the aim because functioning to the best ability possible is necessary to survive.

So if I wasn't clear enough in my opinion on this child parts in a DID system doing adult stuff is not a bad thing. Firstly they're not actual children and secondly actual children bake cookies and clean their rooms, cook dinner etc etc because if they didn't how on earth would they ever learn to do these things. You don't become an adult and miraculously learn to cook. You learn as a child. Just because you have parts stuck at child ages doesn't mean they should not do chores.

sewing footballs is not what children should do. that is the worst example I have heard today.

I think it makes a difference if they feel supported or not. If they get praise and if they feel secure. If there is fear coming in, that things won't be done unless they do them, that is a fear message to me, that doesn't feel safe anymore. When its not safe anymore it starts to feel like stress instead of playfulness. adding real life stress to trauma stress. I bet they are actually willing to help but there is an additional emotional factor that gets in the way.

Thank you for the replies. That's very helpful, this is a lot to think about.

Today I took the 12 y/o part out shopping to buy a travel bag (which she got to pick) and had ice cream. Then she got to pick dinner and I bought pre-cut vegetables so that it would be less work and I could do the cooking. Then she played with clay and looked at the book we gave her for Christmas. And then we listened to music she likes.

I think all of that was much-needed. The difference from before is that I'm working more hours and it means there's less time/energy to do fun stuff. Which is of course totally unfair, because we're all putting in more effort.

They DO like the chores. Just not with the pressure.

When I read your message, birdsong, I felt a lot of shame. I don't want to be like this, and yet here I am. Is it replaying old dynamics? I'm not sure, but maybe.

Either way, I'm going to try to find a way to make this work better.

please make a difference between guilt and shame.
guilt says I did something wrong
shame says I am wrong as a being and there is nothing I can do about it.
I am not even sure if it is a place for guilt, but it is surely not a place for shame.
shame locks us in our old behaviors and worse. guilt guides us to try new behaviors
trying new behaviors always means that we will fail with some of them. that is how we learn.
then we correct behavior and try something new. there is really nothing bad about this, just a process of growing.

I am glad you got some fun time in. don't we all need more of that...
we regularly hit the place where our Littles get grumpy or they are too tired to stand and in a terrible mood. mostly because I am taking too much time front doing mind work. it takes practice to find the balance. and what is balanced today might not be balance tomorrow. this is real work and I don't want you to feel bad about it.
Asti&L

Hmm, it is shame about being very flawed.
But I'm trying to be kind and brave and do things that lead to connection, so maybe it's okay, even if it isn't "good enough" yet.

Just some past stuff that you touched accidentally, no need to worry about me.