SO Reading our Journal (again)

How can she expect you to be more open, when (from your posts) she always gets hostile when you try to talk to her about your DID? How can she expect Pixie to be more open, when your wife has made it clear she wants nothing to do with any of your altars?

K

** Yes reading the journal was wrong. **

I have a hunch why she might have read it... If she has been reading books about other SO's, there's a good chance she read about different handwriting from different alters. From her background, I could see where she may want to verify this without Zor's knowledge lest her asking influence handwriting samples.

I know one of the things that made SF believe was when she tried to imitate the speaking styles of some in the system... and couldn't. "I guess this is real huh." "Yeah."

STILL WRONG TO READ IT!

It may be a good idea to add something like this to your conversation (assuming it's true): "Even though you and I are open about most things in our relationship, that doesn't go for everyone in my system. I'm disappointed, but Pixie (etc.) is really hurt."

SOHank wrote:** Yes reading the journal was wrong. **

I have a hunch why she might have read it... If she has been reading books about other SO's, there's a good chance she read about different handwriting from different alters. From her background, I could see where she may want to verify this without Zor's knowledge lest her asking influence handwriting samples.

I know one of the things that made SF believe was when she tried to imitate the speaking styles of some in the system... and couldn't. "I guess this is real huh." "Yeah."

STILL WRONG TO READ IT!

It may be a good idea to add something like this to your conversation (assuming it's true): "Even though you and I are open about most things in our relationship, that doesn't go for everyone in my system. I'm disappointed, but Pixie (etc.) is really hurt."

I am still working to get her to realize that Pixie, etc are not "part of me" but "parts IN me/us". She still sees them, as the doctor somewhat does, too - as pieces of ME, as if they were lesser or segments of ME, not that we're part of a single whole together... Some of that, I'm sure, comes from that she's only seen (that she's been aware of) and known me...

I let her see a sort of "map" Pixie drew and she, like the doctor, asked the same question- "shouldn't you be in here (the heart in the middle)? The parts are all drawn with a line connecting to the heart, the single self... "From how they see it, we're the same, even if I'm here the most." She gave me an odd look, and I added, "we're part of a single self, they're unique like me... not part of me". IDK if she accepted that, or if she does yet... but she didn't argue it or deny it... so it's a start, right? It's a something to build on.

raptureblues wrote:Thank you for responding. I perhaps do not understand what is required in relationships as I have no desire to partake in such a thing, but from what I have observed of the relationships between others within my system and outside people, openness and expressiveness can and likely should be a flexible thing based on the situation and your own comfort. I can logically understand that your wife perhaps feels in the dark and justifies the boundary violation under the notion of "but I have to, because you won't tell me", but the difficulty is she is not first accepting that a large part of this condition is about attachment and trust.

I think some of this is b/c she DOES feel shut out and in the dark, confused, scared, and even angry still... all valid things to feel... but a large part of this is that she still sees "them" as "parts of me" rather than pieces that make up who we are, me included, as a whole. I showed her a system map Pixie had drawn out at one point, and she thought it was add the "heart" representing the "whole" had lines coming off to all parts- including ME. She asked "shouldn't you be the heart" or "in the heart" maybe... but she, like the doctor, didn't consider how THEY (the others) see me... how we co-exist as part of a single whole, rather than them a lesser part of ME.
She didn't seem to accept it entirely but didn't deny/reject it either. I am hoping that, and the book she's read the "SO chapter" of, and the willingness to read the other one, will help kind of open the door a little and get her to consider a little differently all of this. THAT would be a huge step and huge help for us.

raptureblues wrote:It is okay to not feel comfortable sharing certain things, even a lot of things. You aren't lying or withholding information out of spite. It is a private and complicated thing, this condition we all live with. I would make the argument that no-one has any right to know more or less about you simply because they are your partner, or your parent, or a member of your family, or so on and so forth, but I am probably not the right person to discuss such a thing considering I lack personal experience in that matter, and I am also a very private and reserved person compared to a lot of people, I suppose.

From what was said in a recent post, you talked to the wife and she responded well enough to attempt to read more on the subject. I hope that leads to an improvement with regards to this matter. I wish you all luck with it all.

- Charles

I am trying to figure out how to share more with her, I WANT to... but there's a lot of fear and even shame to overcome- even with her- about this. I'm still struggling with it myself, and my writings (my parts) are extensions of my feelings and thoughts... they are as much internal as my inner thoughts. For the others, I need that to be secure for them to feel safe sharing and opening up- and I am trying to get her to understand that.
Once she can get past her anger towards and perception of the others, I think that will come a lot easier. For now, at least, she's still in the denial/anger stage and not letting that go. That NEEDS to happen first- and it's been a long time since she found out- but every week with our home Bible study group it's a reminder (we're not at the church we'd been attending when this all came out, for example), and it's cost us a lot in terms of social life activity and friendships... that's a constant reminder. She's scared even her parents would freak out and not understand and quit coming around as often...

Those are valid fears- some I share, too. In fact, that's a HUGE PART of what makes it HARD to tell her some parts of some things. Given her continuing negative view of some of us, it's hard to NOT fear sharing more and that possible rejection- like many of the people I know and even she reminds me we have to be concerned with rejecting me.
It's a constant concern and there IS a sense of shame even with this. It's not logical or rational, I get that, but it exists anyway. Not that that should get between spouses, but this has shaken more than just my life... it's shaken everything about me that I've known, my entire sense of self-awareness, self-identity, etc. It's ALL been horribly shaken and I don't even know yet where that will all settle out and fall out into. It's still a mystery to me... so much about the others I don't know, in an interpersonal and connected way... so much about myself I don't know (both singly me, and collectively all of us "me"). So there's a lot to process and sometimes I NEED it private to just extend my thoughts, and I HOPE she can understand that once she begins to see past the limited scope she's allowed herself to see so far.

I agree with what other have said about this being a clear violition of boundaries. I'd also like to add that it shouldn't be necessary to specifically ask her not to read your journal. In general, unless you are invited to read someone's journal, not reading it is the standard. Reading it anyway, several times even and after specifically being told not to, reads as very concerning to me.

Zor wrote:It's a constant concern and there IS a sense of shame even with this. It's not logical or rational, I get that, but it exists anyway.

Concern and a sense of shame seem like a natural consequence given her actions.

How long have you all known you are a system? Something about the fact that she is still thinking of everyone as being 'extensions' of Zor really stands out to me.

Exploring wrote:How long have you all known you are a system? Something about the fact that she is still thinking of everyone as being 'extensions' of Zor really stands out to me.

We found out suddenly, and in a dramatic shocking way, late April of last year. The others, the other parts of us, had been "friends" online of mine for years, and had been talking to friends (real 'outside' world) of mine for almost a year (some longer)... and someone somewhere got suspicious of them, causing them to enlist the aid of one of the friends to do some IT security background like investigations... long story short, he found out they were ALL ME.

He and a pastor friend of ours came over to confront me- thinking at the time it was knowing and willing deception- that I'd made them up for some reason and it was all a lie or a game or whatever. I had NO IDEA this was about to happen, and they told my wife and I (separately, telling her while I was helping do something, then the two of them confronting me about it)...

I knew something was wrong b/c I had NO memory or awareness of ANY of the others' actions, conversations, etc... and had been having memory gaps and losses of time for years- I'd chalked it up to forgetfulness (which I was known for) and the blackout disorder I'd been diagnosed with since 2002 (unknown now, but thought to be seizures, a heart/BP condition, and eventually narcolepsy before being disproven of each and all of those).

So it's been less than a year- and in this time our entire life has been in upheaval. We've lost good friends, we have lost connection to our church, and there's always a fear of losing others... We've been married since March 2002, so this was literally 16 years after we've been married that this was discovered and came out- it's altered entirely everything I knew of ME, and that she has, too...

Zor, our system was also 'discovered' in an abrupt and dramatic way, when Stephanie (our host of 25+ years) simply 'disappeared' overnight, apparently without warning. I say 'apparently' because in retrospect, there had been warnings and signs for at minimum the decade prior.

Three times this morning I have prevented Viola (under Anger's influence) from posting on this thread, because her words were ill-chosen and fueled by anger.

The point she wished to make however was, perhaps your wife needs to spend time with other members of your system, so that she may see for herself that they are not merely 'lesser parts of Zor' but are in fact their own distinct people, with their own sense-of-self. And that they are deserving of respect and privacy, as individuals and in whole as parts of your system.

As long as there is no concern for physical safety or bodily harm, perhaps it would be an option to consider, that you simply turn the body over to Pixie and/or others for a day or two, so that your wife has no choice but to interact with the others?

This suggestion comes from our experience, where there is no longer a Stephanie here for friends or family to cling to as the 'real one' while believing the rest of us are merely figments or characters, or symptoms to be avoided or extinguished.

I apologize if this suggestion comes across as insulting, disrespectful, or disruptive. And I do hope for the best for all of your system, and the relationship you all have with your wife.

Rebecca

VioletFlux wrote:Zor, our system was also 'discovered' in an abrupt and dramatic way, when Stephanie (our host of 25+ years) simply 'disappeared' overnight, apparently without warning. I say 'apparently' because in retrospect, there had been warnings and signs for at minimum the decade prior.

Three times this morning I have prevented Viola (under Anger's influence) from posting on this thread, because her words were ill-chosen and fueled by anger.

The point she wished to make however was, perhaps your wife needs to spend time with other members of your system, so that she may see for herself that they are not merely 'lesser parts of Zor' but are in fact their own distinct people, with their own sense-of-self. And that they are deserving of respect and privacy, as individuals and in whole as parts of your system.

As long as there is no concern for physical safety or bodily harm, perhaps it would be an option to consider, that you simply turn the body over to Pixie and/or others for a day or two, so that your wife has no choice but to interact with the others?

This suggestion comes from our experience, where there is no longer a Stephanie here for friends or family to cling to as the 'real one' while believing the rest of us are merely figments or characters, or symptoms to be avoided or extinguished.

I apologize if this suggestion comes across as insulting, disrespectful, or disruptive. And I do hope for the best for all of your system, and the relationship you all have with your wife.

Rebecca

The big problem with just turning over control for a long time- she already expresses discomfort with them being out and around, dealing one on one with them... and stated the other day her biggest fear is literally something like what you describe happening... me being gone and one of them being here, she said Pixie b/c she's out the most and most vocal of them at this point... but the idea of being married to and living with Pixie is something she's very concerned about and doesn't WANT to do. It would absolutely push her away, by her own admission...

So that kind of thing worries me - that it would be more destructive than productive.

I understand the concerns.

Some times however, it is best that our fears are faced head on.

You know your situation best of course, we will not press the point further.

Good luck Zor and Pixie and all in your system.

Rebecca

I really like Rebecca's idea if there is a way to implement it without "upsetting the apple cart". Are you internally aware of some of them enough they could talk "through" you. You stay out, but relay the conversation. Perhaps that would allay some fears... Maybe do a jigsaw puzzle and switch in and out for a few minutes at a time???

Zor wrote:I am still working to get her to realize that Pixie, etc are not "part of me" but "parts IN me/us". She still sees them, as the doctor somewhat does, too - as pieces of ME, as if they were lesser or segments of ME, not that we're part of a single whole together... Some of that, I'm sure, comes from that she's only seen (that she's been aware of) and known me...

I let her see a sort of "map" Pixie drew and she, like the doctor, asked the same question- "shouldn't you be in here (the heart in the middle)? The parts are all drawn with a line connecting to the heart, the single self... "From how they see it, we're the same, even if I'm here the most." She gave me an odd look, and I added, "we're part of a single self, they're unique like me... not part of me". IDK if she accepted that, or if she does yet... but she didn't argue it or deny it... so it's a start, right? It's a something to build on.

I can relate to your wife on that. I still struggle sometimes when I think about it. They are all Sunflower and none of them are. They make up a system and can influence and co influence the body. I can see their influence often even when it is Sunflower who is OUT. They are together but separate. It makes pronouns tricky… Even things like should I consider the system “Sunflower’s system” or “the Sunflower system”… Eventually I take a step back and think, “they are important and I care about and support all of them” and let go of the specific mechanics of the “structure” and just let it be whatever it is.

Acceptance can be a lot easier than understanding. Several people we know are accepting and sympathetic. But their understanding level is along the lines of "eventually everyone will be glued back together right”. Asking how long until its “fixed”. When I explain that this takes a long time and isn’t about “fixing” as it is processing the trauma, cooperation between parts, working together, that they may always be separate, and that that is okay, they start to get confused. With the medical marvels available, I think it confuses people when they see there are limits to what it can “treat”.