The Evasive Alter

Hey there. This is the host of an OSDD-1b system speaking here.

Recently, my therapist and I wanted to talk about an alter of mine who is a persecutor kind of alter. He is supposed to be like my abusers for whatever reason and holds a lot of, what a normal person would consider to be, really evil beliefs and thoughts. At first I was hesitant about trying to talk about this alter with my therapist because I didn't want him to think poorly of me, but in the end I got up the courage to come forward with what I knew about this alter.

In between sessions, I tried to draw a picture of this alter and write some details about him down, but what ended up happening is that I ended up drawing a completely different alter (let's call him Peter) and wrote about Peter instead. This led me to believe that the persecutor alter might actually be Peter in disguise or something. But, after much deliberation, it was discovered that this persecutor alter was simply hiding behind Peter after all. But this isn't the first time that this has happened.

You see, this persecutor alter is complicated in the sense that he is able to hide behind other alters, change his identity (and even gender expression) at random, and even "fuse" with other alters that I have to make them act out. I believe he does all of these things to keep me from detecting and identifying him correctly and, thus, be able to get the real help that we need.

The reason I'm bringing this up at all is because I want to help him. He's the only alter that I have that doesn't get along with the rest of us and causes the most amount of chaos. Not only that, but I have a suspicion that he might be closest to my trauma, given that he's imitating my abusers a lot. I want to see what he's hiding from me and also I want to properly give him an identity. Maybe if I were able to do those last two things, I would be able to be at peace within myself and wouldn't have to keep taking this damn medication I'm taking that's partial purpose is to keep the persecutor alter from barraging me with flashback thoughts.

we are in a very similar situation, and reading your post helped me realise a few things. i don't know how much i can help, but i'll try.

we have someone here that seems similar to the alter you described. he recently tried to pretend to be someone he wasn't to scare me. it seems like he doesn't have an identity outside of being the One In Charge. we had to lock him up recently because he tried to ruin a lot of the progress we'd made, he also hurt people inside so we had to do something. even while locked up he's still able to influence us through someone else (who does not want to do what he asks but it's difficult to ignore him).

what you said about wanting to help your alter because they're likely closest to trauma really made me stop and think for a minute. i'd been wondering if the One In Charge had to deal with the worst of our trauma, and whether his way of dealing with it was keeping us all in line. if he keeps us in line with The Rules, of which The Rules are designed to get us through abuse, then he has a way of dealing with the trauma. because we started uncovering stuff recently, fighting denial, trying to work as a team, it goes against The Rules, which goes against his "job", which makes us "unsafe". we don't live with our abusers anymore so we are safe, but he might not know that, or might think we won't be safe forever and will end up back there.

i think the main thing is your alter probably feels you aren't ready to remember things, and they might not know that the abuse is over. i think you're probably right that this alter is closest to your trauma, so they might be in a state where they feel it's necessary to keep mimicking your abusers to keep you all "safe" (at least with us we're made to feel like if we heal we'll get too "complacent" and if we ever end up back with our abusers we're going to be screwed because we stopped following The Rules), even if it does the opposite.

what you said about giving them an identity makes sense. finding a safe way to communicate with them, asking them what they'd like to be called, how they'd like to be seen, and grounding them in the present as much as possible - that might help with stabilising the situation. i think the main thing is making it clear that they can have a new "job", a new purpose that means they can work with all of you without upholding previous trauma, so you can all heal.

i don't know if all that rambling will help, but i hope you can find a way forward.

- alice

Mosaic Butterflies wrote:I want to see what he's hiding from me.

Mosaic Butterflies wrote:wouldn't have to keep taking this damn medication I'm taking that's partial purpose is to keep the persecutor alter from barraging me with flashback thoughts.

I picked those 2 points to quote because I feel like you are contracting yourself. You want to see what they are hiding but you are taking medication to stop yourself from seeing what they are hiding. Maybe this part is sending you flashbacks because they don't know a better way to communicate or maybe its to prove you don't want to know things or maybe there is another reason.

I would advise you try to get your words and actions to like up more because consistency and honesty and trust are really important. So the part that is holding most of our trauma knows I love and care for her, that I don't want her to be in pain. But also that I find her emotions completely overwhelming and debilitating. She knows that I want to help her more but that I don't have the capacity to do so. She also knows we are trying to help her more by going to threapy, by being more accepting and by acknowledging each others needs more.

raptureblues wrote:we are in a very similar situation, and reading your post helped me realise a few things. i don't know how much i can help, but i'll try.

we have someone here that seems similar to the alter you described. he recently tried to pretend to be someone he wasn't to scare me. it seems like he doesn't have an identity outside of being the One In Charge. we had to lock him up recently because he tried to ruin a lot of the progress we'd made, he also hurt people inside so we had to do something. even while locked up he's still able to influence us through someone else (who does not want to do what he asks but it's difficult to ignore him).

what you said about wanting to help your alter because they're likely closest to trauma really made me stop and think for a minute. i'd been wondering if the One In Charge had to deal with the worst of our trauma, and whether his way of dealing with it was keeping us all in line. if he keeps us in line with The Rules, of which The Rules are designed to get us through abuse, then he has a way of dealing with the trauma. because we started uncovering stuff recently, fighting denial, trying to work as a team, it goes against The Rules, which goes against his "job", which makes us "unsafe". we don't live with our abusers anymore so we are safe, but he might not know that, or might think we won't be safe forever and will end up back there.

i think the main thing is your alter probably feels you aren't ready to remember things, and they might not know that the abuse is over. i think you're probably right that this alter is closest to your trauma, so they might be in a state where they feel it's necessary to keep mimicking your abusers to keep you all "safe" (at least with us we're made to feel like if we heal we'll get too "complacent" and if we ever end up back with our abusers we're going to be screwed because we stopped following The Rules), even if it does the opposite.

what you said about giving them an identity makes sense. finding a safe way to communicate with them, asking them what they'd like to be called, how they'd like to be seen, and grounding them in the present as much as possible - that might help with stabilising the situation. i think the main thing is making it clear that they can have a new "job", a new purpose that means they can work with all of you without upholding previous trauma, so you can all heal.

i don't know if all that rambling will help, but i hope you can find a way forward.

- alice

Thank you for your input Alice. And, honestly, your One in Charge sounds so very much like my persecutor part. It's astounding, really.

But yes, I'm going to try and offer him an olive branch again. Maybe that will help. And I'll see about trying to give him a new job. This all probably won't happen overnight, but I'll try to get the ball rolling anyways.

-- Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:32 pm --

NyxX wrote:

Mosaic Butterflies wrote:I want to see what he's hiding from me.

Mosaic Butterflies wrote:wouldn't have to keep taking this damn medication I'm taking that's partial purpose is to keep the persecutor alter from barraging me with flashback thoughts.

I picked those 2 points to quote because I feel like you are contracting yourself. You want to see what they are hiding but you are taking medication to stop yourself from seeing what they are hiding. Maybe this part is sending you flashbacks because they don't know a better way to communicate or maybe its to prove you don't want to know things or maybe there is another reason.

I would advise you try to get your words and actions to like up more because consistency and honesty and trust are really important. So the part that is holding most of our trauma knows I love and care for her, that I don't want her to be in pain. But also that I find her emotions completely overwhelming and debilitating. She knows that I want to help her more but that I don't have the capacity to do so. She also knows we are trying to help her more by going to threapy, by being more accepting and by acknowledging each others needs more.

You know what? You're right. Thank you for pointing out that inconsistency. It's important that, if I want to help this part, that I'm being consistent with my actions if I want to achieve my goals.

I think what I might try to do is ask my psychiatrist to lower my medication to an amount where I can properly listen to and communicate with this part again (because the meds actually silence the activity of my parts, for the most part). I still need the medication so I'm not getting overwhelmed, but I also still need to talk with this part and help them deal with these flashbacks instead of trying to ignore them.

And, now that I think about it, this part primarily speaks through flashbacks, so it might be correct to assume that this traumatized part has no other way of expressing what the problem is.

This sounds very similar to our "New Part". We don't know the gender or name of this part. My therapist says it's not "new", just making itself known for the first time. This part is wanting to kill me (the host) and harm me. This part pushes away the other parts. This part seems to be in control and in charge and the strongest one lately.

My therapist and I are having a struggle with this part, and it's becoming dangerous because it's physically harming us. It's so scary and not sure what this Part wants/needs.

I just wanted to remind, it's not one or two cases, when there's been a little behind the scariest introject/persecutor, and those introjects start to act out, when the little one gets scared. Don't get stuck with the thought of little in there, because there might not be anyone, but keep it in mind when you are trying to figure out when they are triggered. Then it's probably the little who is closest to trauma. And those flash back might not be to punish you, but they might be the little telling about what's happened to them.

If they are really small, and the memories are not in the memory system that can be reached with words, it means showing pictures, sounds, sensations is their memory. They are not able to talk about it. I don't remember the names of the memory systems, but I think they were sam-memory and vam-memory. Don't remember which is which, but the other one is not capable of verbalizing the memory. From that memory traumas need to be removed and placed to the other memory system, and when they are there, it is possible to talk about them, and have words to describe them.

If there is a little one behind it all, they need that scary thing to protect them from all the others, and keep others protected from the information they hold.

I can't know what kind of hidden parts you have, but you know if it sounds sensible, or off topic.

edit: This came to my mind, because the part is hiding. If it's very strong for real, it doesn't have to hide. It can just push away others, and you knowing where it is, would not change anything. So to me it sounds it has something to hide within itself. Like the fact it may not be as strong or bad it seems to be, when you are not able to see it.

Mosaic Butterflies wrote:Thank you for your input Alice. And, honestly, your One in Charge sounds so very much like my persecutor part. It's astounding, really.

But yes, I'm going to try and offer him an olive branch again. Maybe that will help. And I'll see about trying to give him a new job. This all probably won't happen overnight, but I'll try to get the ball rolling anyways.

i'm really glad i found this thread, to be honest. it's always really helpful when you find someone with similar experiences, especially when there's so little advice out there for stuff like this. i really hope things work out for you and the others. it'll take a while, but each step is progress, even if it's a small one.

Floralie wrote:[...] If there is a little one behind it all, they need that scary thing to protect them from all the others, and keep others protected from the information they hold.

[...] edit: This came to my mind, because the part is hiding. If it's very strong for real, it doesn't have to hide. It can just push away others, and you knowing where it is, would not change anything. So to me it sounds it has something to hide within itself. Like the fact it may not be as strong or bad it seems to be, when you are not able to see it.

this feels really important so i'm quoting here for reference because i want to go back and find this later, if that's alright.

- alice

Floralie wrote:I just wanted to remind, it's not one or two cases, when there's been a little behind the scariest introject/persecutor, and those introjects start to act out, when the little one gets scared. Don't get stuck with the thought of little in there, because there might not be anyone, but keep it in mind when you are trying to figure out when they are triggered. Then it's probably the little who is closest to trauma. And those flash back might not be to punish you, but they might be the little telling about what's happened to them.

If they are really small, and the memories are not in the memory system that can be reached with words, it means showing pictures, sounds, sensations is their memory. They are not able to talk about it. I don't remember the names of the memory systems, but I think they were sam-memory and vam-memory. Don't remember which is which, but the other one is not capable of verbalizing the memory. From that memory traumas need to be removed and placed to the other memory system, and when they are there, it is possible to talk about them, and have words to describe them.

If there is a little one behind it all, they need that scary thing to protect them from all the others, and keep others protected from the information they hold.

I can't know what kind of hidden parts you have, but you know if it sounds sensible, or off topic.

edit: This came to my mind, because the part is hiding. If it's very strong for real, it doesn't have to hide. It can just push away others, and you knowing where it is, would not change anything. So to me it sounds it has something to hide within itself. Like the fact it may not be as strong or bad it seems to be, when you are not able to see it.

You are right as well, I think. If this part really was a strong one for real, it wouldn't need to hide. I think that, actually, this part feels scared and quite frankly ostracized by the rest of my system simply because they hold so many flashbacks. That's not very fair to this part that I have.

...Last night, I was trying to draw my alters for fun and I ended up making a picture of this persecutor part of mine. Apparently they wanted to be made as a woman this time and, when I was finished, I took a look at the picture and saw what looked like an incredibly sad person. And she had a mouth covering on too, like maybe she's too afraid to tell something or she's afraid that she's going to hurt people if she opens her mouth. Behind that mouth covering, she has a lot of very sharp teeth, so that's where that last part comes from.

There might be a smaller version of her somewhere within my system, but I can't be sure of that as of right now. But one thing is for sure: I am going to do my best to listen to this part more and I will try not to judge it. After all, we're all hurting. It wouldn't be fair to look at her as a bad person for just trying to survive.