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Great Book so far..."Many Minds, One Self"

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Great Book so far..."Many Minds, One Self"

Postby lumpy68 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:25 pm

Hiyas :)

I am starting to read a great new book I got in Boston by Richard Schwartz and Robert Falconer called "Many Minds, One Self: Evidence for a radical shift in Paradigm". It's about how and why this concept of "Unitary Mind" came about and how through out history and cultures around the world, "Multiplicity" was the norm and viewed as healthy and "Normal". The authors are not saying everyone has DID, but rather that the concept of a "Unitary Mind" as in a single part of personality in western culture is even a newer one and to be "Multiple" is not only "normal" it's "healthy" and is this way by default. "Multiplicity" is not Pathological. Compartmentalizing and being unaware of other parts however is like in DID. They even go on further to show throughout history how many great thinkers were very open about their parts who had fully developed personalities. And also is a product in Human evolution that we are.

Psychologically speaking the authors do agree with much that Pierre Janet stated about what is now called DID, however they disagree that it is a mental illness to be "Multiple". Carl Jung and William James as well as many others felt that "Multiplicity" is a normal and healthy part of being Human and not a disorder on it's own. That Trauma however does cause polarization as well as isolation of our parts and that is the cause of suffering.

From the very title of the book, they make it very clear that EVERYONE is "Multiple" by very Nature and is not some obscure or rare mental illness like DID.

They make some very good arguments and use many examples in history as well as cultures that are hard to argue with. They go into the history of Western culture and when the concepts of a "Unitary Mind" began and why. Most of which were for Political or Religious reasons. An example is that during the Dark and Middle Ages, signs of it were considered "Possession" by the Devil or Demons and would get you burned at the stake if it wasn't determined to be "The Holy Ghost" that was possessing someone. It was actually a Catholic Nun in the 1500's who first proposed that it could be caused by a medical condition instead which saved her fellow nuns from such a fate that turned it into a "Mental Disorder".

Now I hope I don't offend anyone here by this. I know there has been at least one poster who resented that "Everyone is Multiple" instead of us exclusively holding this "Odd" condition. Again I must make very clear that I and the authors are not suggesting by any means that everyone has "DID".

However what if everyone is "Multiple" and this concept of "Normal" people only having a "Single Personality" is in fact false? The ramifications are HUGE! Spiritually, psychologically, biologically, emotionally, and so on.

Now some may ask themselves, "Why on Earth would anyone want to make this case so strongly? What motive do they have to stick their neck out like that professionally?"

I don't think it's financial gains considering how controversial this topic is. Very few are even willing to admit that DID is valid let alone commit to the vast amount of study and dedication that is required to help those like us here. Historically, It's a death nail in a professional's career to go there.

Knowing a bit about the Author of "Internal Family Systems" (IFS) Richard Schwartz and meeting him several times in person and studying his work, I truly believe it's for humanitarian reasons that he is sticking his neck out like this.

The reason I say this is because of the ramifications that it holds that they are strongly stating this.

Consider this...The authors have discovered on their own as well as discovering it throughout history that Everyone has another part of themselves that is NOT a "Part" but is what they call the "Self" and that that is our "Psyche" or "Soul" and has the ability to be Compassionate, Curious, Calm, Confident, Courageous, Creative, and Connected as the default state, then from such a state of mind or being not only can we all heal from within, but also are much better Human Beings as a whole as well. It's basically "Mindfulness" combined with Compassion. It's active rather than passive.

Sadly in Western culture, Science and Spirituality have been at polar opposites officially and so has been a taboo subject for many years and seen as unprofessional to mix the two as ridiculous as that sounds to me. I mean I saw this even last month in Boston when Respected Neurologists in the field of Trauma tip toed around the mechanics underlying "consciousness" but were very nervous about discussing it for it by very nature got into spiritual realms. Even though "Psychology" is the study of the "Psyche" aka "Soul" or "Self" (with a capital "S"), to openly discuss the matter is taboo.

Historically they point out that even having one "Soul" isn't even traditional depending on the culture. Some cultures like the Dakota Sioux they say believed in as many as 4 souls while others only 2 or 3.

"Possession" is also an aspect of this topic and not by chance either. As "Crazy" as it may sound, even today it's a welcomed practice in other parts of the world and even here in the United States. It's considered a "Blessing" to be "Possessed" by the "Holy Spirit" in Christianity and is not considered a pathology at all and many people convert to a religion as a result of it.

I find this to be very fascinating on so many levels.

For one, my parts really like being validated and not be made out to be some fabrication caused by childhood trauma. They also seem to understand that while it's considered healthy to be multiple, that the trauma we have been through has caused encapsulation of them and that they need to meet the others and all work together for us as a whole to be healthy and recover. That there is no fear of being rid of in the guise of recovery.

Another aspect I can relate to is that from my research that this concept of a "Self" who is not a "personality" is within all of us and is the key to recovery and is not external. That by tapping into it not only can I heal my parts, but is also the best place to lead a healthy life from instead of the parts who don't wish to have the burden of running the show.

And perhaps one other thing that I find calming is the notion that everyone is Multiple as well and I'm not the freak that the system has me painted as in this society. Instead of fearing my parts, I am now very curious and compassionate towards them as well as my inner worlds. That Socrates was correct, that within us we all have the answers if we simply seek within. He himself was open about a part he called his "Daiman" that was his personal Oracle of wisdom.

I tend to be a William Jamesian in the way of believing that "Experience trumps theory". Meaning that if a concept or theory doesn't match my personal experiences, I tend to not give it much credence. Not to say that it has to. But I use this as a rule of thumb personally. I have never given birth to a child (I'm a male), but I fully understand that others still do and is valid and real. :)

But when it comes to complex theories and concepts such as these, I always check my internal compass or "Viscera" to see if it's a match.

An example is this very topic. While Freud at first came to the same conclusions as Pierre Janet and William James about the connections between early childhood Trauma and Dissociation, he recanted that soon afterwards and came up with that ridiculous crap about the "Oedipal Complex" to replace it and that childhood sexual abuse was all fabricated and false memories just to get attention. How many still buy that crap even today is terrifying!

Pierre Janet's "Structural Dissociation" model that was spot on but dismissed due to Freud's cowardice and fear of reprisal by the powerful men who were paying for him to treat their daughter's who mostly were their victims did a huge disservice to humanity and is why was buried for so many years until relatively recently.

But although I fully agree with much of Janet's work, I also agree more with William James and Carl Jung who didn't feel "Multiplicity" was a Pathology by it's self, but rather was an innate and healthy aspect of being Human. It's what happens to our parts by trauma that is the issue not the having them that is.

One other thing I find fascinating is that so many of the break throughs in how the human mind is being discovered to work at a very core level is a direct product of studying DID. The very field of "Psychiatry" is at it's very roots based upon DID "Hysterics" in the 1800's. It was a famous women and case of "Anna O." who herself had DID in the 1880's and was the inventor of "Talk Therapy" as well as many other Humanitarian contributions to mankind in the 20th Century as well.

On page 36 of the book they write something I find of interest...

"When earlier theorists studied the psyches of trauma patients, they discovered their multiplicity. This was in part because from the IFS perspective, while trauma doesn't create parts, it can have the effect of making each part more extreme and separate from other parts, thereby making them more apparent to the client and the therapist. As Nietzsche had observed years before, "The value of all morbid conditions is that they show us in a magnifying glass certain conditions that are normal, but as normal are hardly visible." (1968, p. 47)."

So far in this journey with all of this "Multiplicity" stuffumz, is that is that it's becoming increasingly clear to others as well as myself that the very model of reality between "Singularity" versus "Multiplicity" radically dictates our behaviors regarding this subject matter recovery from trauma.

If on one hand a "Singular Mind" is the believed, then "Mindfulness" in the shallow Pop Cultural view is correct and that these "Thoughts' that pop in and out of our heads at any given moment are just worthless "Noise" as it's perceived, and the act of just viewing them as such and allowing them to emerge and then drop away makes perfect sense.

However, on the other hand if "Multiplicity" is in fact the actual way the human mind operates, then the very same would be considered unhealthy and problematic as it would be to treat another person in such a dismissive way which has been shown to make matters worse not better. This seems to be the prevailing experience of those who are making great strides in the treatment of trauma.

Due to the increasingly popular fad of "Mindfulness" in it's bastardized current forms, it's becoming increasingly discussed about the crucial differences in how it is to be practiced with regards to treatment of trauma by the worlds leaders. By this I am specifically referring to "Mindfulness" without Compassion. Although I am still quite ignorant on the deeper matters of "Mindfulness" in a traditional way, my gut tells me that "Mindfulness" was never intended to be practiced without Compassion.

Onno Van der Hart mentions this in a recent interview about treating Trauma and Dissociation with Bessel van der Kolk. Many others have also come to this understanding as well such as Richard Schwartz who is the co author of this book. "Mindfulness" combined with Compassion is the key to it's truly being effective. Sure, clinically sterile and devoid of humanity "Mindfulness" as it's being practiced these days, does activate the frontal lobes and does have some usefulness in and of it's self. However if combined with Compassion and empathy as I am quite sure the Buddha intended it to be, for that is at the very core of his teachings, it elevates it to a much higher level and effectiveness at least regarding recovery from trauma and especially relational trauma such as ours.

It's not enough to simply "Observe with curiosity and without judgement" the thoughts and feelings that may come and go and ignore them to be dismissed as simply "Mind Noise", It's crucial to engage in dialogue with these parts and view them as just as valid and important as you would anyone else that we cared deeply about. It's about trying to be in this "Self" who has the compassionate and caring qualities to engage in those parts so that they can be healed. It's secure attachment from within. It's If I recall it's not considered healthy to "Dissociate" from our parts by being dismissive under the guise of being "Mindful" and detached from them. To consider parts of our selves that are vital and important simply as "Noise" to be ignored "Without judgement" perhaps with a dash of curiosity seems to fly in the face of wisdom. And my parts say is Very Rude!

I have much work to do on that subject! I stayed up all night writing this and ignored the part of me that insisted I don't as well as Cody who hates it when I bash "mindfulness" in it's popular form for he is a real people pleaser and doesn't like to upset anyone.

But the part of me who really needed to express himself has also been neglected much lately and so I did want to acknowledge him in this post.

To wrap it up I feel I did a relatively decent job in expressing the outcomes of the two paradigms of "Singularity" versus "Multiplicity". This forum is perhaps preaching to the quire. But even here, I wouldn't be shocked to hear some grumblings from parts which is fully understandable. :)

This "Evidence for a Radical Shift in Paradigms" has very dramatic outcomes once fully digested. One of which is that being "Multiple" is not in or of it's self a Pathological Illness.

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Re: Great Book so far..."Many Minds, One Self"

Postby ItsJustUs » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:33 pm

That's very interesting. Thank you for taking the time to share with us.

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Re: Great Book so far..."Many Minds, One Self"

Postby Amythyst » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:23 pm

Hi Lumpy,

Good review, it's a lot to take in though. Very thorough.

Good to see you back, we missed seeing your name on the forum.

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Re: Great Book so far..."Many Minds, One Self"

Postby myce » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:57 am

Good post thank you again Lumpy. I am skeptical that multiplicity could be non-traumagenic, but I reconsider. As you noted, Western culture and the churches have trained a particular paradigm on the Self. I think multiplicity is common but DID is unique. Creative people often tap into a mind they feel is not their own to produce their work. I think forms of pathological dissociation are misunderstood as ADHD, depression, anxiety, etc. Attachment trauma is trauma and even normal cultural practices can split young children. A strong front can push away the hurt parts but they lose compassion.
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Re: Great Book so far..."Many Minds, One Self"

Postby NyxX » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:29 am

I think it's a question of degrees. A stubbed toe hurts but not like a broken one.

I think singletons are made up of many parts but they are like a completed jigsaw puzzle all those parts make a unified whole. They grow together they work together. Maybe they can strengthen parts and suppress others to create the different selves they have for different roles. But at the end of the day they have a single sense of identity and self.

For us we don't make a single picture. I have the same number of puzzles pieces but they come from a dozen or more puzzles and not all of them are even jigsaw puzzles. We don't make a unified whole we don't grow together we don't work very well together. Our sense of self and identity is so divergent that we are many not one.
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Re: Great Book so far..."Many Minds, One Self"

Postby lumpy68 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:44 pm

Dear Myce

I really want to applaud your contribution here Myce!

I absolutely agree with the your statement...

"I think multiplicity is common but DID is unique."

By very subject this is a very confusing topic. The reason I say this is because of terms and language that get used. One culture WITHIN let's say the field of Psychology will use the term "Ego States" while another who is talking about exactly the same thing may call it a "Sub Personality". The list goes on and on with discussing exactly the same thing but with so many different terms depending on whose lens you are viewing it from.

This subject also gets even more complicated when you introduce "Consciousness". Again what exactly does that even mean? But without a firm grasp upon basic underlying structures that are so much apart of the concept of "Personality" it's really hard to discuss in a meaningful way. I certainly am not implying that I have a firm grasp on these subjects. The world's experts who have spent most of their lives studying it as well as studying the life time works of those before them and their peers, don't all agree on the matter either. So it's not to say that any of us are just "Dumb". These have been controversial from the time they were first started to be explored. Whether it be in ancient India, China, Europe etc. In addition to that they have never stayed the same either. As one model gains popularity the older model may be replaced by it.

myce wrote:Good post thank you again Lumpy. I am skeptical that multiplicity could be non-traumagenic, but I reconsider. As you noted, Western culture and the churches have trained a particular paradigm on the Self. I think multiplicity is common but DID is unique. Creative people often tap into a mind they feel is not their own to produce their work. I think forms of pathological dissociation are misunderstood as ADHD, depression, anxiety, etc. Attachment trauma is trauma and even normal cultural practices can split young children. A strong front can push away the hurt parts but they lose compassion.


One thing that really caught my eye in your post Myce was your statement...

" I think forms of pathological dissociation are misunderstood as ADHD, depression, anxiety, etc."

Dr Gabor Mate' is now saying exactly the very same thing.

I am watching a very good DVD I got in Boston last month called "The Myth of Unitary Self; a dialogue on the Multiplicity of Mind" by Dan Siegel M.D. and Richard Schwartz. PhD

His field of study is "Interpersonal Neurobiology"

I have been a huge fan of Dr Dan Siegel for a few years now for he really seems to have a very good grasp on Attachment Theory. He is a Developmental Researcher as well as Clinician. I didn't even know until this morning when I started to watch it that from the 80's on he has been one of the go to People for treating DID in the L.A. area. For some reason which he doesn't understand from early on MPD clients were being referred to him for treatment. I knew he understood us deeply based upon many interviews I have watched of him, but I also just thought it was because of his Attachment research and Neurology etc. He I believe is the one who came up with the "Window of Tolerance" as well as being very big into "Mindfulness" as well as Attachment Theory. He's playful and funny too. :)

I mention this because he talks about "Integration" often. He specifically states it's NOT putting everything into a blender and pushing Puree. That he calls Homogenization.

I've taken the time to transcribe a excerpt from the video on this and will quote him here now...

Daniel Siegel M.D.

"The brain is designed to work in states. There is never is supposed to be a time when there is a homogeneity of states. The idea of a unitary self is a false idea. There is never a developmental push for unification.
There may be a time when there is a push for something which is called integration. Which is different from homogenization.
So integration is defined as "The linkage of differentiated parts". That's just the definition."


I so wish I could just have a link to these video's but they are not online and I had to purchase them at the Conference on Trauma in Boston. I am a very slow and bad typer so to quote them exactly as they state it takes forever for I have to keep rewinding to go back and correctly write out the entire sentence.

There are many other lengthy discussion on the same topic which he also goes into greater details and also involve MPD/DID which I really want to take the time to transcribe for all of you. He is a very playful and enjoyable person to watch. It's grueling work to transcribe like this but I feel is very well worth it. I'll do it in another post for I fear that added to this one may be too daunting due to the length though. :)

But to get back to why I quoted Dr Siegel is That Dissociation is the lack of linkage between differentiated parts. It's the lack of "Integration". (WOW! That firefighting helicopter flew right over my cabin and shook the windows! Lot's of fires close by as usual here). So when Myce stated that....." I think forms of pathological dissociation are misunderstood as ADHD, depression, anxiety, etc. " I can't agree more! But that is really a no brainer. But something that is over looked or never even acknowledged. From this perspective I am starting to view my symptoms in this manner as well and finding that it's been very helpful.

An example lately which has been problematic, is what I used to call "Anxiety", or my misdiagnosed "ADHD" (but in my diagnosis of it the "H" was "Hypo" not "Hyper"). The experiences that I call problematic is this...I start to do something and very quickly as I am beginning to work on it I have very strong urges to stop that and do something else that is nagging at me to do. But not just one or two things but rather 4 or 5 at once. I can only do one thing at a time and so is frustrating as well as feels like I am torn apart in many directions all at once. I start on thing then have to stop that and do another on this "Hot List" and end up not completing any of them which makes it all worse. I used to think it was "ADD" but now I am learning that those are the needs of my parts instead. Not knowing this it just felt like very intense "Anxiety". But now that I view as parts needs, I try to answer their needs as best I can, for they are all healthy needs any way and when I am able to, I feel much better. My Life improves.

Anyway Great Contribution Myce!

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Re: Great Book so far..."Many Minds, One Self"

Postby lumpy68 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:04 am

Hiyas Mates

I see that this thread was deemed "Book Review" Huh

What Evs hehe

It's really about dialogue about "Multiplicity" and expounding on it from different sources if you ask several parts of me.

Before I transcribe more from the Video "The Myth of Unitary Self: A Dialogue on the Multiplicity of Mind" by Dan Siegel MD and Richard Schwartz PhD, I want to try and explain why I am posting these since there seems to be some resentment on this topic for reasons that baffle me.

One reason is that it's becoming very obvious that in the field of Trauma and other fields there is a serious Paradigm shift starting to take place. The Paradigm shift is this...

The concept of a "Unitary Self" or "Singular Self" is false. The findings are based upon very strict and well done research from many fields and is about how the Human Mind seems to operate naturally. In essence "Multiplicity" is not a Pathological Disorder like has been pushed but rather the natural way the Human Brain operates.

It's natural that when Paradigms Shifts begin to happen that there is always a backlash and often can be hostile. Dissociation is a natural condition of the Human Mind and experience. And not just for Trauma survivors.

Here are two good examples of those who are resisting "Newer" information and cling to older belief systems even today with so much overwhelming evidence to prove that they are in fact true....

http://www.fmsfonline.org/?ginterest=MultiplePersonalityDisorder
Well ok this organization actually do believe in MPD/DID for many of them are actually worlds experts professionally in creating it in both children as well as adults under the CIA's MK-Ultra and other related Projects that have been declassified. So although they are trying to say DID doesn't exist and is fabricated, it is no secret now, that these very members actively and professionally for most of their careers did actually create it. But to a layperson it would appear to be the opposite.

But here is another fun one...
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/about-the-society

I actually know people who buy into this.
How can one even argue with this? The World is Flat in 2018? :shock:

I mention these two examples to show that somethings are just to hard to swallow and dissociation sets in to the point of Psychosis.

(Wow!! Two Helicopters almost clipping my tree tops with their buckets for the local fires!)

But to be honest we all have issues at times in our lives that just too difficult to digest (some can even cause Dissociative Disorders!) and are overwhelmed by them at first, or for years. So I am using them as examples that it's a human condition and experience. But World is Flat? Sheesh! :roll:

Back to the posts though...

To be honest I am not sure why this community is having such a hard to with this topic considering the outcomes of such a shift in our views of Reality based upon research and those whom we all respect here like Dr Onno Van Der Hart, etc. But perhaps for the very same reasons anyone would regardless of their conditions? It's a big change in our realities.

But the most exciting thing about this new shift is the outcome of it. The outcome of it directly effects us in several ways. But to me, most importantly the findings that it contains. That Everyone has the internal ability to heal from even as harsh as Traumas as we have been through. Within it is now being drawn the road map to unheard of results in recovery for those like ourselves.

Perhaps those who are not following the leading findings in Trauma treatment don't see or understand this yet. But it's within this "Multiplicity" that holds the keys. Odd as that may sound, they are all coming to similar conclusions. The research is all pointing down that path.

Don't just take my word for any of this but try to keep an open mind.

I'll leave this post now to move on to the next one and transcribe some really good stuff from the above mentioned video.

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Re: Great Book so far..."Many Minds, One Self"

Postby myce » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:07 am

Thank you lumpy. I have identified at least three and maybe more non-DID multiples in my family. My mom is one, a strong ANP with little self-awareness or symptoms. She is a decent person but her own attachment trauma made her negligently unfit to be a mother. ANP parts are naturally phobic of pained EP parts, possibly their own children. I know little about her upbringing except that her parents were cold/authoritarian. But I know her trauma because I came from her. Parts of me hate her for it, although I know she tried to be more compassionate than her own parents.

My dad's family have a natural predisposition for dissociation. I used to think it was a spiritual phenomenon, but I don't think of it that way now. My late aunt was what I call a witch, a healer. She never used the term to describe herself but that's what she was. I thought it was odd that she married a cowboy who was so different from her. But they shared a love of the earth and creatures that bonded them together for decades. She might have been multiple.

As a child I was taught about a god who was said to be infinitely good and benevolent, yet he was to be feared. That is a contradiction that resembles the mind-splitting paradox for a child who fears the one who is supposed to protect them. Their love and protection is conditional. It is a form of mind control that has been passed through the ages in some families. I can look at it dispassionately. It was strategic for survival. I think the Father of the Bible is cruel and violent, but his contemporaries were worse. They favored child sacrifice.

I have been reluctant to share my own recent experiences with “mindfulness” for a few reasons. Lack of clarity. Before I learned of my diagnosis I was blocked from self-awareness by the paradigm of singularity. I was unaware of my multiplicity even as we talked to ourselves and referred to ourselves as “we” in private. Before I became aware I thought, “why do I talk to myself?” and the answer was “We talk to ourselves so we can forget.”

It begins to make sense. I can hear what my mouth is saying when I'm talking to myself and I can cry to release tension. But feeling is different. It is as if Shield's angry ruminations are partially-processed trauma still stuck. If I “focus on being self-aware” then I am listening and feeling more than talking and ranting at myself. Sentinel/Shield could not do that on her own but told “me” whoever that is to do it. Then I become aware of myself as multiple rather than just me talking to myself compulsively. I can move around my system a little easier. Shield can also feel more integrated and calm. But this way of mindfulness can be destabilizing too.
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Re: Great Book so far..."Many Minds, One Self"

Postby pamelaperejil » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:22 am

NyxX wrote:I think it's a question of degrees.


I agree. (non here)

This is a post copied from BPD:

I don't choose my personas, they choose me. Almost like demonic possession.

I may be the good girl, trying to do the right thing in an ugly world.
I may be the neurotic bitch, wreaking vengeance on those who slight me.
I may be the autist, so focussed on one thing that the rest of the world just melts away.
I may be the self righteous sniper, patting myself on the back while secretly gunning down everyone I meet for one flaw or other.
I may be the performer, desperately needy and starved for approval and attention.
I may be the con artist, cynically sizing up a target.
I may be the sinner, beating myself bloody to atone for my sins.
I may be the hedonist, succumbing to the nearest pleasure.
Etc. You get the idea.

They come and go, seemingly of their own accord. I have no idea how or why.
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Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)
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Re: Great Book so far..."Many Minds, One Self"

Postby lumpy68 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:54 am

Dear Myce :)

Thank You for for quite a bit that really struck home for myself.

Your following piece really struck many nerves with me. I may be very tired and relaxed , but it brought up so many things with my own Mother who just passed a little over a year ago. It's like all these churning very strong feelings and emotions all boiling just under the surface and yet am very numb and detached from them at the same time.

My own Mother come to find out the last few months of her life (86) she told me that she had been sexually abused by a "Gross, fat man that lived down the road from her when she was 5. This was not one of those quaint over a cup of coffee discussion but rather during a very big fight when I was in hind sight just trying to get her to be a Mommy for me and acknowledge the sexual abuses I had gone through since the age of 3 at the hands of the baby sitters she would send us boys to. it was a shocking moment of clarity although still very triggered. Her own denial of her own is in hind sight to a large degree why she would keep sending us back even knowing at the time it was happening.

She was a very high strung person and very bitter and enjoyed being cruel to us at times. Her Father who died of old age before I was born was a Tyrant I am told by my oldest half brother who is 14 years older as well as my cousins who knew him well. They were about to retire when she was very young for she was number 11 and worn out. Had I never been sexually abused as a small boy I seriously don't think I would be too much better off besides how it has all but prevented me from physical intimacy with my partners. I mean all of us boys are disasters and I seriously suspect my full brother who was abused as much as I was or even more I think has DID too. Our older half brother may not but still has very serious issues due to our Mother as well. I loved her as much as was possible as it was, but the damage is the lion's share of my DID in my view really.

my earliest years being raised by her were not pretty and she was a serious wreck after the shock treatment for 6 weeks when I was 9 months old. Much of the stuff wasn't that she was a bad person or evil by any means but untreated serious childhood trauma certainly took it's toll on all those around her. I took the brunt of most of it with only a short break when I was in my early 20's for only a year or two.

Your own experiences you shared really brought up so much and yet am still at the same time blind to it. I just bit off another small chunk to chew on for a bit. Thanks for that.

myce wrote:Thank you lumpy. I have identified at least three and maybe more non-DID multiples in my family. My mom is one, a strong ANP with little self-awareness or symptoms. She is a decent person but her own attachment trauma made her negligently unfit to be a mother. ANP parts are naturally phobic of pained EP parts, possibly their own children. I know little about her upbringing except that her parents were cold/authoritarian. But I know her trauma because I came from her. Parts of me hate her for it, although I know she tried to be more compassionate than her own parents.


This following piece even though am sleepy still is very triggery for me.

myce wrote:As a child I was taught about a god who was said to be infinitely good and benevolent, yet he was to be feared.

That is a contradiction that resembles the mind-splitting paradox for a child who fears the one who is supposed to protect them. Their love and protection is conditional.

It is a form of mind control that has been passed through the ages in some families. I can look at it dispassionately. It was strategic for survival. I think the Father of the Bible is cruel and violent, but his contemporaries were worse. They favored child sacrifice.


I was a militant Atheist up until a few years ago. I never dreamed it was even possible for me not to be. I had to quit drinking for I became a black out drunk and tried so many times on my own and failed so went to Alcoholics Anonymous. I almost bolted my first meeting when we had to do a Catholic Prayer and everything was "God this and God That! They insisted I have a "Higher Power" and claimed it could be anything I wanted it to be. I was robbed of a choice because as it just kinda evolved even before I joined AA, I was brought to my knees by the spirit if you will of the infamous Calamity Jane. And it was not a pleasant experience at first. She became my higher power and not by any choice of my own! Winnie the Pooh would of been my first choice! :)

But back to this God thang.
It's a very long and complicated history and story of all of this stuff but mainly one reason I hated Christianity as well as the Catholics was their corruption, brutality etc. But I was always offended by the God of the old Testament as well. The sexism, slavery, genocide, war in God's name, etc used to offend me and trigger the day lights out of me. It still can and does.

Also the message of obedience and conditional love as a father is I do agree is the same situation that causes Disorganized attachment which is at the heart of Trauma disorders most often. Threatening a small helpless child to love you or die is not what I would call a Father I would ever want.

I do believe in a God I suppose now. But it's certainly not a mean one like that! Mine came about through gradual experiences that used to throw me for a loop. I may call it "God" and when talking to religious people I speak the same language as them, but not the mean cruel one that is portrayed in the old testament.

It's actually been a very healing and loving experience that is melting away that ice. I welcome more of it always :)

I just finished watching the video of Dan Siegal and Dick Schwartz about multiplicity as the way the brain is wired and functions. Both have worked with DID for many years in their own practices and was so very refreshing to hear them both discuss this. Dick Schwartz is especially passionate (in his calm quiet way) about how he is against the pathologizing of Multiplicity as the result of trauma. They both fully agree that we are all are "Multiple" by nature but the difference between DID and Non Trauma multiplicity is the way it compartmentalizes due to Dissociation.

It was also very refreshing to hear them both speak out against the Homoginization of parts to be melted into one in the name of "recovery" to try and make a "single" self under the guise of what they falsely call "Integration". Dr Dan Siegel says how horrible it's been that the term "Integration" within the DID community is actually far from the definition. It's not about getting rid of parts but rather about removing the barriers between them due to trauma and having them all work harmoniously together. Dick Schwartz is the inventor of "Internal Family Systems" (IFS) and feels very strong about it too.

myce wrote:I have been reluctant to share my own recent experiences with “mindfulness” for a few reasons. Lack of clarity.

Before I learned of my diagnosis I was blocked from self-awareness by the paradigm of singularity. I was unaware of my multiplicity even as we talked to ourselves and referred to ourselves as “we” in private.

Before I became aware I thought, “why do I talk to myself?” and the answer was “We talk to ourselves so we can forget.”

It begins to make sense. I can hear what my mouth is saying when I'm talking to myself and I can cry to release tension. But feeling is different. It is as if Shield's angry ruminations are partially-processed trauma still stuck.

If I “focus on being self-aware” then I am listening and feeling more than talking and ranting at myself.

Sentinel/Shield could not do that on her own but told “me” whoever that is to do it. Then I become aware of myself as multiple rather than just me talking to myself compulsively. I can move around my system a little easier. Shield can also feel more integrated and calm.

But this way of mindfulness can be destabilizing too.


This last block is quite insightful and read it quite a few times for there are layers to it.

I was very fortunate in the sense that within a few months of being told I was DID by crappy T' without using any sort of diagnostic tools to do so, just verbally, I went to New England to try and make it to Bessel's Trauma Center in Boston for help. I wasn't able to be seen, however his intake team did strongly suggest I try and get a T who knew "Internal Family Systems" (IFS). I had never heard of it before and boy when I looked into it I quickly saw why they did! It spared me so much suffering simply by the "Multiplicity" they say is inherent in everyone since before birth even. So regardless if I was correctly or Mis-diagnosed as having DID due to the butchered and abusive ways stuff was dumped into my medical records, it mattered not for either way is the same.

I was still very phobic of parts but just the shift has greatly helped all by it's self. Myself growing up I knew I had "Parts" of me but like you mentioned the "singular" view of reality hid them very well. I used to call my Depersonalization which has always been very severe since age 3, "Cloudy" for when I was in a dazed and checked out from it, and the other part that wasn't "Clear". My friends growing up and all the way through adult hood just blamed all this "Multiplicity" on me being a Gemini! I am a "Twin" they always said and it drove them crazy that I would flip from one to another randomly like "Dr Jeckyl and Mr Hyde" And all because I was a Gemini. I went with it because I couldn't explain it by any other means.

As Nietzsche had observed years before, "The value of all morbid conditions is that they show us in a magnifying glass certain conditions that are normal, but as normal are hardly visible."

In some ways I am very grateful for the childhood I had that helped create the way I am now.

Had I had a much healthier up bringing I don't think I would be the same way I am now. I'm sure genetics played a role as well given our family history. But I don't think I would be as highly developed in the odd ways I am now which have greatly helped me do and see things in ways I don't think would be possible otherwise.

You wrote...
"If I “focus on being self-aware” then I am listening and feeling more than talking and ranting at myself. "

This is a huge part of why people meditate and practice "Mindfulness". It's not "DID but rather shifting out of parts and into the "Self" or the "I" versus the "Me" as some call it. It's Frontal Lobe being back online rather than the lower reptilian brain. If I'm not mistaken it's also the realm of "Executive Functioning" . Something that gets knocked off line when our nervous systems take over due to being triggered. Everybody does that. It's not trauma exclusive. "Healthy" people when they get triggered stop themselves and step back to cool off or collect themselves to get back into the self aware mode rather than acting out of being upset.

I mean one can view it a million different ways. But the more we do it the healthier we become. It's a skill that is developed developmental as we are growing in childhood. Small children can't really do it much at all or may struggle. Trauma really knocks this out and so growing up always triggered it hardly gets a chance to get nurtured.

Oddly enough, it's one of those things that I am grateful for as a result of my trauma and severe dissociation. In some ways along with a very good working memory along side my parts and dissociation ,with me it has been highly developed. But the down side of it for me is that I am also severely compromised when it comes to feeling things. Which tells me has been developed mainly in my left hemisphere while the right area is very stunted, is my guess. I mean I do have great empathy and compassion towards others in this mode, but it's all outward and never inward in that regard. And yet am very "Self" aware and insightful as well. It's very Dissociated for sure! lol

I have so many highly developed "Parts" and they are often online at once but the main ones share memories while my "watcher" part observes from a neutral stance. Makes for a great Philosopher and Artist as well. It's also a very spiritual place of being for me as well.

Your post really is very rich with so many things that spark my interest and like I said has so many layers to it. But alas I really need to get to bed. I have much to do tomorrow and it's almost 5am yet again ugg lol

I'll try to post the more of the video next week for I have the Boy on weekends. :)

Thanks for a Great Post Myce

Warmly
Lumps
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