in crisis

Thanks Colin. It means a big lot to K that you posted here. He feels super alone with his issues. He feels that our T (long before this whole episode) is scared of him. Maybe scared of protectors. But scared of him. He wonders if something bad happened to her once with a client with a protector.

he feels like she approaches him as if he is a raging animal, like a dog barking and growling , and she just says nice doggy, nice doggy (in the form of you are doing your job, you are brave, good for you) to get past him. Or until he stops barking. However he has never ever been aggressive toward her and rarely been present (or listening for that matter).

Like if you've seen the show leftovers. in season one the barking dog in the back yard.

I guess being a protector in the ages of real threats was easier. Things were clear. Now, less clear. Instincts are triggered but often for no reason. But I really understand where he is coming from. And he says he doesn't know how to fix this with our T. I ask him to be patient. But his is a doer not a wait-and-see-er.

Thanks Colin

i really feel like if I am not the client she needs me to be she doesn't want anything to do with me.

I realize that this is probably an old feeling.

But it feels so crushingly real.

Hi SamsLand

That's playing it safe on her part. That is her prerogative but she is professionally bound to inform you of such.

Take care... Brett

Hi SamsLand

I finally got through reading your whole thread. You've been through quite a journey with everything.

When it comes to cancelling appointments, I think there are a number of reasons this can contribute to a T thinking you are quitting and to react.

> Many people quit therapy unofficially by cancelling appointments. Enough people have done this that a therapist can reasonably expect that some patients will end therapy like this. This is not a good end to the therapeutic process and so they will usually call and ask if you are ending in order to make it clear to you that that's what you are doing, even if you don't realise it. That's not what you personally seem to be doing, but given the cancelling, the therapist has no way of definitively knowing this without you doing something that seems to re-engage you with the therapy process.

> Cancelled sessions show a lack of engagement in the process. I said to my therapist the other day that I wished that I had cancelled and his response was that if I had cancelled that session, then why not every other session also. He pointed out that realistically, if you aren't cancelling for some specific unavoidable reason (e.g. I cancelled due to being in hospital a couple of times this year), then cancelling today is no different than cancelling any other day; there is nothing that makes cancelling this session different than all the other ones. Therefore if you cancel today's session, you may as well cancel all of them.

If you are just going to therapy based on when you feel like going and when you have a connection or when you feel like it would be helpful, then there isn't really much of the actual therapy process that you are interested in working on because that would engage you to keep going, even when you didn't really feel like it. I think you said in one of your posts that you didn't think the session before she goes on leave would be helpful. In theory, one would go to the session before she leaves and work through why you didn't think it would be helpful. If you didn't want to do that, she would understandably think you aren't interested enough to continue, that you were basing your desire to go to therapy based on what feelings you get out the interaction that might lead you to do some work, rather than primarily being interested in doing the work and taking any opportunity to do that, particularly at times when you struggle to see it as beneficial which is probably the time that it would be the most beneficial. This is why she took it badly that you cancelled, she probably wants you to be engaged in the process, want to do the work and be getting out of it something that is worthwhile and therapeutic rather than feel she is catering simply to your feelings of what doesn't "feel" worthwhile but isn't objectively any different than the opportunity to work on stuff in any other session.

> If you cancel the session, then she has to ask herself why. I don't know if she's a good therapist or not but generally it's probably not very comfortable question for therapists to ask themselves, they wouldn't feel like they'd handled everything perfectly the whole time.

> Cancelling a session says you don't want to be there. If you never discussed in session why you want to cancel, that doesn't really leave the therapist with an opportunity to discuss with you and feel like you've makes a well-reasoned choice. Helping the therapist understand your choice to not want to engage in the process for the session you are cancelling is courteous to the effort they put in to work with you. You can't really help them understand a decision to cancel if you don't discuss it with them in person. And they can't really help you understand your decision to cancel if you don't discuss it with them in person. That leaves them to feel they haven't had the opportunity to understand and respect your decision and to realise the decision is made with you having fully thought through why you are cancelling and understanding it. If you haven't fully had the opportunity to think through in session why you are cancelling, you've essentially denied your therapist the opportunity to do their job, which goes further towards them thinking that you don't want to be there.

> You are denying her income at relatively short notice. If your employer said they didn't want you do to work in a week or two's time when the arrangement had been that you would work, you probably wouldn't feel loads secure in your employment and your ability to pay your bills. This would essentially be reneging on the employment contract which would be unprofessional on the part of your employer and violate established boundaries. Likewise, good boundaries for therapists mean that it should be expected that their patients hold up their end of the deal by coming to appointments. If a therapist doesn't have an issue with a patient cancelling appointments based on how they feel, the therapist doesn't have very good boundaries. The agreement is to go to appointments and so if you are not doing that, then a therapist is forced into a position where they have to work out how to respond to this boundary violation.

Sorry if all this is a bit blunt, finesse isn't my forte. I just wanted you to have a bit of an idea of how cancelling can be interpreted. I think you seem to be taking her reaction personally by feeling offended and abandoned, but I'm trying to make the point that it doesn't have much to do with you personally. It is more about a behaviour that doesn't really fit well into the therapy process unless it is examined. She hasn't yet had an opportunity to look at this with you because you cancelled. If you manage to take up the opportunity to go to your next appointment, perhaps you can discuss with her why you cancelled and can start working through everything this brings up for you.

Take good care

Thanks Brett - you are right and I think the next appt has to be focused on establishing the rules - clearly. And for me to express where I think what she says can happen doesn't align with what she doesn't allow happen and to understand the discrepancy. Clear up my understanding.

Salted lipstick - I got through most of your points. I will come back to reread but i get the general idea of what you are saying. And some of it does definitely apply to her. She has told me on several occasions in session that she likes private practice because she can work with who she wants to work with, which is in part invested clients. And can refer to someone else when needed. She has also made it clear to me on several occasions that she doesn't need the income, but she needs to get paid for her time. that she does this job because she wants to, but her time needs to be compensated for. This is also clear to everyone inside.

I also realize we have manipulated the whole situation. When we contacted her, she didn't want to take us. I posted about this over a year ago. She met with us to refer us on, but then changed her mind upon the meeting and decided to try a few more sessions and then took us for a regular appt. She's admitted this directly to us in the process of working this issue out - we had to address it directly before trusting her.

And now I see what we did. Some parts so badly wanted an isstd trained therapist (they seemed to be worshipped around here). Some parts really wanted to try to work with a woman to over come issues related to women. Felt this was next up to deal with. So we wanted very much to be her client. And because we are exquisitely sensitive to detecting the needs of others, having grown up with narcissists, we figured that out.

I am not saying at all it is not worth seeing her or that the therapeutic relationship isn't good because of how it started. But that initial interaction underlies the fear and expectation that she will terminate therapy in the next appt. And I know it is her prerogative to only see clients that fit into her framework. She does have that right. And she might not want to refer us on. But she might. We will have to wait for the 2 weeks and ask her directly.

In the session I will then write down the rules. Write down the if...then...situations. And the therapeutic relationship is 2 ways so we need to come to an agreement with her whether we go forward or not. And i find this insane, because there was no intention of quitting when we canceled and now it is on the table. Maybe it is not on the table - maybe it is your fear.

I know this long post didnt ask a question or seek advice. I'm just working things out I guess. I hate DID. I hate attachment disorders. But this is my deck.

we were insecure about our T quitting on us. we really like commitment and we are very serious about it. we need to as a foundation for trust. L would present our doubts and questions every week. one day she asked the T if there are any circumstances under which she would send us away. that was a helpful question. to see that she is willing to take a lot of $#%^ and where her limits are.

I too feel a little weird with our T. I think she doesn't like me. she gave us this questionaire before we started and I was honest and expressed my doubts that she can help us. based on the experiences with former Ts. i guess it made her think i am an enemy that needs to be worked around somehow. sometimes i try to crack a joke. its not working. she is taking everything I say literally and it is very frustrating. I am not against the whole therapy thing. I like that sometimes she is able to make a difference and add something we didnt know. but i really hate being made the bad guy when i was just expressing doubts.

SamsLand wrote: I got through most of your points. I will come back to reread but i get the general idea of what you are saying

Yeah, sorry about the essay I wrote. I'm glad some of it applies. Also, it's kind of good that she made it clear that she doesn't need the income but that she does need to get paid. It would have been kind of creepy if she didn't worry too much about getting paid, that would be some kind of bizarre boundaries and then you'd be wondering all the time if you were a "good enough" patient to see her. In some sense though, maybe knowing she doesn't need the income makes it hard because then you know she does the job because she "wants to" and so then you are in more danger of being that patient that she doesn't want to see.

SamsLand wrote:I am not saying at all it is not worth seeing her or that the therapeutic relationship isn't good because of how it started. But that initial interaction underlies the fear and expectation that she will terminate therapy in the next appt.

If she was that hasty about terminating, that would be kind of unprofessional I think. I had a therapist do this and my next therapist was appalled. I don't think that's the way it's meant to go. Perhaps try to be open with her that you are fearful and expecting she will terminate the therapy when you next see her, this will help to work through it with her.

SamsLand wrote: And the therapeutic relationship is 2 ways so we need to come to an agreement with her whether we go forward or not. And i find this insane, because there was no intention of quitting when we canceled and now it is on the table. Maybe it is not on the table - maybe it is your fear.

Perhaps when you approach your session, it might be worth approaching this topic with her as something that you could resolve over several sessions? It might even be worth asking that. I get the sense that you have found this situation pretty challenging and so you might find it destabilising to suddenly have therapy end on the next session you see her. I don't think it would be unreasonable to point out the troubles you are having with what has happened and ask to take a bit longer to work through it. Quitting is maybe not on the table from her perspective, it may just be your fear. Though equally, given what you've said about where things are at and how she took you on, she may be questioning the productivity of whether she is the right fit for you or whether you could be better served by seeing someone else. You can't really know where things are at until you speak to her. Do your best being open about how you are feeling about things and your thoughts and fears and what you hope to accomplish by being in therapy with her. If you've done what you can do on your side of things to have a reasonable discussion with her then it will be easier to accept the outcome of the discussion and to use that outcome productively going into the future.

I’m sorry , can’t quite follow all of it but we feel for you . Worrying that we’re not what they want ( T) is very old and very triggering.

Can relate to feeling of T being afraid of protector part. I’m not in touch with that inside but my T did have bad experience and that came across. I challenged him because I’d never done anything in session to give him idea of us being a danger. That’s when he told me why he was cautious.

That being said it’s not “ our” responsibility to take care of T’s feelings .
Thinking of you/all.... take gentle care

-- Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:06 am --

I’m sorry , can’t quite follow all of it but we feel for you . Worrying that we’re not what they want ( T) is very old and very triggering.

Can relate to feeling of T being afraid of protector part. I’m not in touch with that inside but my T did have bad experience and that came across. I challenged him because I’d never done anything in session to give him idea of us being a danger. That’s when he told me why he was cautious.

That being said it’s not “ our” responsibility to take care of T’s feelings .
Thinking of you/all.... take gentle care

[color=#000080]

I am not against the whole therapy thing. I like that sometimes she is able to make a difference and add something we didnt know. but i really hate being made the bad guy when i was just expressing doubts.

[/color]

That resonates. a lot. K initially felt like it was a set up - that she knew he wouldn't take the step. But We've had many conversations and have decided to wait it out.

Can relate to feeling of T being afraid of protector part. I’m not in touch with that inside but my T did have bad experience and that came across. I challenged him because I’d never done anything in session to give him idea of us being a danger. That’s when he told me why he was cautious.

Thanks for this. I hate thinking I am crazy and that this is not the case. But my intuition/knowledge of people is often precise. But yes, we will address is directly with her.

You are right salted lipstick I will have to take a very pragmatic and patient approach to returning to therapy. And get all of the doubts and concerns out. And if it is not meant to be on either part, than at least we know we tried and did not quit hastily in the middle of a bad experience.

2 weeks is a long time.

TRIGGER WARNING - SH

As a side bar. Something happened today. I had forgotten i had an appointment today to deal with a body injury. It is something we have regularly so it wasn't on my mind. But I did forget that I had SH and I had cuts. And I was part way through when I realized - oh $#%^ - they will have to see them. It is the first time a professional has ever seen them. I am very avoidant when I have cuts. But they saw them, they even had to touch them, I think. It felt like it, but I was looking away. They were very professional, and I even felt compassion. I felt they acknowledged it indirectly when I left. The world is not as bad as we think it will be sometimes.

I glad they were professional and compassionate. You deserve that.
Please take care-Beth