Confused

am4kds wrote:Doesn't it all come down to some type of outside affirmation for all the craziness we feel inside?

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. We've always had difficulty differentiating each other--that is, knowing who's out/around at any particular time. We know who everybody is, and we know what everybody looks like. But we never see each other. So we hear a voice or feel an emotion and we don't know who it's coming from, unless it's so distinct that we can match it up with the knowledge we have of people. The only exception would be that people who are very close to each other would be able to identify each other immediately.

But getting back to being identifiable by the T: We've found that unless she's talked to someone at length, it seems to us that she doesn't know who she's dealing with. It frustrates us when what's obvious to us isn't obvious to her. We don't have a flagrant Sybil-like presentation at all--not that she expects us to, but our individual need for affirmation drives our desire that she should recognize anyone who comes out. And this doesn't happen, so most of us have stopped trying.

Laura and others

I don't think you're rambling nondescript. At least one of us knows what's going on in our systems.

I feel like I have a ton of possible reasons to be scared. Some of them are being scared of being rejected by the t's (again), some are because I sometimes think I am making this whole thing up, then I start thinking I am incurable, I wont be good enough, smart enough or I am too far gone for therapy to help me, etc.
I think I just feel really ashamed of all this. In my world DID is still something that needs to be gotten rid of. Any sign of switching or alters or even the severe dissociation, to me they are all signs of illness and weakness and they should all just go away or be hidden.
She keeps saying that I'm not crazy just because I have something that not many people have, but I think that some of the DID specific symptoms can be pretty crazy at times (sorry).
Today I thought that I did a reasonably good job of trying to stay present for therapy, unlike the past few appointments. But then hours after the appointment I noticed that I actually didn't; A much younger personality had far more control than I thought she did, more than me. I am ashamed to behave like a child and I hope that we wont become stuck in a pattern like this, like we did with old t.
Some of us don't trust the t to be good at her job. Last week E was present. I think they did a good session and he is reasonably pleased with her and surprised by her in a good way but it's not like he completely trusts her now. Even if he would trust her, that still doesn't mean that she can take their jobs away or even them. He is way better at this therapy stuff than I am though. He isn't scared to talk at all.
But if he comes out like that all the time I am scared that he (or the younger one) will get stuck outside in the body again and take over life. I am the one who is supposed to be stronger so I can 'do life'. Therapy is supposed to help me be stronger, not him? I don't even know. I just know that everyone inside wants me to do life, but that somehow I can't stay present enough to do my job.

Yes I am scared that she will eventually decide that we are not alters after all. Scared that she really thinks we are completely psychotic but plays along with our frame anyway because I just wont go away.

I can not believe that I can be so heavily in denial about how real exactly they all are, yet write all this and even be aware of some of the alters when they are out, at the same time.
To me it feels like they will forever keep feeling less than real because I am not really fully present when they are out, and by the time I get back, they are not fully present. That makes it just seem less tangible ( my English speaking alter knew that I needed this word and told me to write it, I had to go look up the word "tangible" to be sure that it is the word I was looking for. Go figure how real this is proven to be time and time again, but I am still in denial). Is this sort of denial really denial or is it simply dissociation?

I am sorry if none of this makes any sense at all. I feel like I am so new at this, lol. wth. I really do.

am4kds wrote:Doesn't it all come down to some type of outside affirmation for all the craziness we feel inside? It drives me nuts when my T's answer is always to go inside and ask or go inside and communicate. Doesn't she know that we are almost always talking inside? I want her to know, acknowledge the craziness or to discount it for me. I want outside confirmation or denial. When we are thinking and acting in so many different directions, how can we pull it all together and know what is really reality? Yet, I am also aware because of the history of MPD/DID "creation" that therapist shy away from any confirmation of what is happening. They don't want to be accused of creating memories or alters.

Exactly! I am so glad that happened with your mom. Every time my husband identifies or acknowledges alters, it feels a little like I'm not all alone in my world.

But most of the time I'm painfully aware that my subjective reality is hard for anyone other than me or other people with dissociative disorders to relate to. Lately I've been having this weird quirk of accidentally talking out loud to my alters when I am rapidly switching in front of my husband. Makes me seem totally crazy. Thank goodness it is a rare event. But it emphasizes how much what I am experiencing is not what my husband is seeing. He sees a woman talking to herself, while I experience another alter saying something and me responding to it in third person. (I usually catch myself as soon as I say something outloud, and hush up.) It's disturbing to be so caught up in such a thing, though.

MakersDozn wrote:Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. We've always had difficulty differentiating each other--that is, knowing who's out/around at any particular time. We know who everybody is, and we know what everybody looks like. But we never see each other. So we hear a voice or feel an emotion and we don't know who it's coming from, unless it's so distinct that we can match it up with the knowledge we have of people. The only exception would be that people who are very close to each other would be able to identify each other immediately.

Speaking of affirming, this is very affirming for me. I do have experiences of "seeing" alters out of the corner of my eye or in various other configurations, but it is not typical. I also have trouble knowing who is responsible for what. It is confusing because I feel like I know who some of my others are, but it's hard to identify them in action or word or thought. Which means I can't even validate myself. Before our recent awakening, we front people were blind to one another. Not completely walled off in terms of amnesia by any means, but each typically alone in our individual minds yet feeling frustrated at the actions of one another, wondering what was going on.

MakersDozn wrote:But getting back to being identifiable by the T: We've found that unless she's talked to someone at length, it seems to us that she doesn't know who she's dealing with. It frustrates us when what's obvious to us isn't obvious to her. We don't have a flagrant Sybil-like presentation at all--not that she expects us to, but our individual need for affirmation drives our desire that she should recognize anyone who comes out. And this doesn't happen, so most of us have stopped trying.

Again, very helpful and affirming. This makes sense. Our therapist expects alters to identify themselves directly if they want to be acknowledged. Not that she won't try to identify alters on her own, but she expects us to do the heavy lifting or at least help her when she asks. Mortifying for some of us despite that it is only logical. This is going to be hard for us.

TheCollective wrote:I don't think you're rambling nondescript. At least one of us knows what's going on in our systems.

I definitely don't know what's going on with my system. Working on it, but I have so far to go. When I read what you wrote below, I realized that much of what you wrote is how I feel somewhere, too. But I'm so out of touch with what our feelings are I have little idea. So thanks for going into detail about your process. It was helpful to me.

TheCollective wrote:I feel like I have a ton of possible reasons to be scared. Some of them are being scared of being rejected by the t's (again), some are because I sometimes think I am making this whole thing up, then I start thinking I am incurable, I wont be good enough, smart enough or I am too far gone for therapy to help me, etc.

Resounding "YES, me too!"

TheCollective wrote:I think I just feel really ashamed of all this. In my world DID is still something that needs to be gotten rid of. Any sign of switching or alters or even the severe dissociation, to me they are all signs of illness and weakness and they should all just go away or be hidden.
She keeps saying that I'm not crazy just because I have something that not many people have, but I think that some of the DID specific symptoms can be pretty crazy at times (sorry).

This is so true for me, too. It doesn't help that my husband, even while getting good at identifying my self states, constantly emphasizes that it's ok that I am so out for now because it is a part of the process of getting better. Why doesn't he realize that he never knew me before now, and now that he's getting to know me, he's saying it's only okay because at some point I will be invisible again? It makes me think I should try much harder to hide, but it is too heartbreaking to go backwards at home. (We aren't totally open with him anyway.) Yeah, so it IS crazy seeming from the outside. It is crazy when I feel completely out of it and my whole world is falling apart, yet I act completely "normal" from the outside. It's also crazy when I inadvertently argue with myself out loud (something I shield my children from but that occasionally shows when I'm being more open with my husband). Secret, not secret, it's crazy seeming. "Crazy" is a word with a lot of power, though, a lot of shame. Self-acceptance, self-compassion means facing all the pain wrapped up in that and being brave enough to be who we are.

TheCollective wrote:Today I thought that I did a reasonably good job of trying to stay present for therapy, unlike the past few appointments. But then hours after the appointment I noticed that I actually didn't; A much younger personality had far more control than I thought she did, more than me. I am ashamed to behave like a child and I hope that we wont become stuck in a pattern like this, like we did with old t.

Whenever people start talking about "behavior" in the context of real life children, they are dehumanizing that child, like she's a rat in Skinner's lab.

Um, that's a weird statement I just made. But could the shame at your young "behavior" (and the feelings and vulnerability that underlie it) be a way of distancing yourself from that part of you? It seems totally rational to want to be grown up with your therapist, and to come up with a strategy for how you can get there, but the shame...hmm... seems like something to learn through somehow. (Sorry if this is presumptuous of me. I am not saying your shame is not real or anything like that.)

Oh, my partner needs me. I'll reply later to the rest of your post. Thanks again for sharing.

Nondescript,

Thanks for the validation. It helps.

Various MDs