options for the near future

I'm happy to hear Jess realized that it was abuse and she's being kept safe from it all now. It's difficult in the beginning when you can't distinguish between your own feelings and something being forced on you. Becoming aware helps so much with that.

Oh man, Katie's line of thinking is really misguided. It's kind of scary that she believes you owe him after all he's done. I hope you're able to save her soon because she needs a lot of help. It's really nice of you guys to still care for her when it doesn't matter to her whether all of you are hurt. Does the introject abuse her too and it's almost a Stockholm Syndrome kind of thing?

we think?

she doesnt see it as abuse (of course). so we cant exactly ask her. and its like... his attacks are (and always have been) mental/emotional abuse. he does physical stuff, but usually there are no marks, there is rarely any kind of pain, etc. he really plays on the atmosphere, thou - the details of how we wake up, when we wake up, how much we remember about what happened, how conscious we are while its happening - those types of things. he seems to have a good grip on how to create triggers for himself too. meanwhile, we think its katie who has the control over consciousness, maybe emotions too. she does what he says, of course, but she claims to not really care about it. its something we still dont understand. we have a hard time keeping coconsciousness at all sometimes, but katie can bring forward two other people with her at the same time, and control what each one sees/feels and how awake each one is. even when we are more conscious of the surroundings than she is, she can always push us back the moment shes told to by the introject. but i dont think she understands what shes doing or how amazing it is to the rest of us. she claims that including others isnt something she does for her, she does it for him, but it doesnt get in her way enough to care whether she does it or not. and that just baffles me.

so its hard to say what she experiences or if he throws anything in there to upset her or not. my guess would be no, but i cant say that with any certainty. not really. i know she gets upset and screams inside and makes noise, but it tends to be hard to understand her, and any time she is forward, the only thing we feel from her (and usually our only clue that shes there at all) is a desire for the introject to attack. but if she existed before jess started fiting the introject, she was silent and completely unknown. my theory is that she broke off of jess directly when jess started trying to fite. i know some tend to say that it doesnt work that way, but i think in her case, it did. because jess had a small case of stockholm syndrome herself before sarah talked her out of it. but the introject had her trained to believe that she really wanted him to attack, that if he stopped, shed be upset, she believed the same things that katie believes, but to a lesser degree. and when she started putting up a fite and decided that he was wrong, and started telling herself that all the time, and pushing him and everything related to him away from her, thats when the introject started getting more obviously aggressive and also when katie became known - first the name, then we started to notice signs here and there. for jess, it wasnt so clear cut - it felt like the way she always felt. but since i had never been attacked that way, its very clear when katie shows up that its not me. jess still struggles with it. so either she was there the whole time and for some reason never felt impatient, never got upset, didnt have a name, and never bothered anyone except jess, or she broke off when jess started pushing all of that away, and the introject got his hands on her and turned her into a weapon. im leaning toward the second one, but thats mostly opinion. i thought she was a fragment before too, until she demonstrated that (while shes a bad actor) she can function apparently normally when she has to - she can work the devices here that she has never used in an attack (as far as we know), she can converse with people (as much as she clearly doesnt want to), we believe she can think for herself (thou her thoughts are clearly warped) - so we are thinking shes more developed than a fragment. were still debating whether the name was self chosen or given to her by the introject...

and yes, we are still concerned for her. she is a part like the rest of us. shes acting as the introjects weapon, but i know what its like down there. fiting him is a terrifying notion there, and if she doesnt know anything else but that layer, i dont blame her for the way she is. i feel sorry for her. the introject is an enemy through and through. but katie is a prisoner. she may not know it, but she is.

Tunes14 wrote:he really plays on the atmosphere, thou - the details of how we wake up, when we wake up, how much we remember about what happened, how conscious we are while its happening - those types of things. he seems to have a good grip on how to create triggers for himself too.

It almost seems like a game to him with how much thought he puts into each attack. Emotional wounds can take longer to heal than physical ones sometimes. I'm glad the emotions usually aren't your own so it doesn't stay with you.

tunes14 wrote:we have a hard time keeping coconsciousness at all sometimes, but katie can bring forward two other people with her at the same time, and control what each one sees/feels and how awake each one is. even when we are more conscious of the surroundings than she is, she can always push us back the moment shes told to by the introject.

That's really incredible! And even more so since she thinks it isn't a big deal. To do some like that with little to no effort is really amazing. The amount of potential she'd have if she was healthy would probably be astounding!

Tunes14 wrote:when she started putting up a fite and decided that he was wrong, and started telling herself that all the time, and pushing him and everything related to him away from her, thats when the introject started getting more obviously aggressive and also when katie became known - first the name, then we started to notice signs here and there.

I think you're thought on how Katie came about seems pretty reasonable. Could another reason be that the introject was so "infatuated" with Jess that when he started to lose her Katie came about to try and satisfy his need/want for Jess? Just a thought

Tunes14 wrote:and yes, we are still concerned for her. she is a part like the rest of us. shes acting as the introjects weapon, but i know what its like down there. fiting him is a terrifying notion there, and if she doesnt know anything else but that layer, i dont blame her for the way she is. i feel sorry for her. the introject is an enemy through and through. but katie is a prisoner. she may not know it, but she is.

It must be so difficult for her living in an environment like that. It makes me sad to think about everything she's going through, I'm glad she's not alone though. And she has all of you to help her and support her. She's definitely going to need it once you free her from him. My heart goes out to her!

Evanescent wrote:That's really incredible! And even more so since she thinks it isn't a big deal. To do some like that with little to no effort is really amazing. The amount of potential she'd have if she was healthy would probably be astounding!

sorta. i kinda worry that if she knew what a big deal it was, she mite not be able to do it anymore. i mean, that doesnt make a lot of sense, but it makes about as much sense as all the other nonsense in the system, so its something i take into consideration. thou, it doesnt look like shes going to be realizing how big of an accomplishment that is as long as shes down there in that little world. but if she can keep it after we get her to start healing (assuming we CAN get her to start healing), yea, that will be amazing.

Evanescent wrote:I think you're thought on how Katie came about seems pretty reasonable. Could another reason be that the introject was so "infatuated" with Jess that when he started to lose her Katie came about to try and satisfy his need/want for Jess? Just a thought

thats something i hadnt considered, but it is a possibility. we believe that the introject was largely based off jess's mother, who was emotionally abusive and neglected jess. but we think there were other influences as well, and he has claimed to love her multiple times (thou that could also just be a front he used because it confused the $#%^ out of her. also jess was obsessed for years about why her mom didnt love her, and when she asked, her mom said that she did, but jess didnt believe her. it wasnt long after that when jess began claiming to remember absolutely nothing about her mother, so that may have something to do with it too...). so basically, i know next to nothing about this guy, despite all the research ive done, and that could definitely be something to keep in mind.

Evanescent wrote: It must be so difficult for her living in an environment like that. It makes me sad to think about everything she's going through, I'm glad she's not alone though. And she has all of you to help her and support her. She's definitely going to need it once you free her from him. My heart goes out to her!

thank you. and idk about what anyone else thinks of her, but i will definitely be there to try to help her. of course, kidnapping her away from him isnt necessarily going to help her see him as the enemy - actually, i worry that when we do this, she will get more desperate to get back and see US as the enemy, which mite actually make it harder for us to help her. but i cant handle this going on for too much longer, and since she is his main weapon, i dont feel like i have much option, you know? either way, i still dont think i know anything about the conversation im waiting on. but the SO says there may be a way to make a necklace with a piece in the shape of the fae's symbol, made out of a metal chosen by the fae for its supposed 'magical properties'. in the end, this should be something portable and much harder to destroy than the paper clips we had before. so hopefully that will go well and help me out.

tunes14 wrote:of course, kidnapping her away from him isnt necessarily going to help her see him as the enemy - actually, i worry that when we do this, she will get more desperate to get back and see US as the enemy, which mite actually make it harder for us to help her. but i cant handle this going on for too much longer, and since she is his main weapon, i dont feel like i have much option, you know?

That's very true, I hadn't thought of that. Since it isn't her own decision she may feel as if you guys are forcing her into something she doesn't want, like you're trying to control her. Making it harder for her to trust you all and believe that you really are trying to help. In a way, she might feel as if you're the captors instead of him. It's just so difficult though because the attacks will be less severe once you get her away. And while she's with him everyone is in danger not just her. So I see what you're saying about not having a lot of options. If you guys have a therapist in your system maybe she could help Katie once she's away from him. I'm afraid she won't want your help afterwards.

I hope the necklace works and keeps you all safe. The important people really are taking their time, so it'll be nice to have something to hold you over until then.

um, i dont think we have a therapist in our system, but we have an external therapist as of today...

Is the one you wanted? or did you have to settle?

hehe! we got the one we wanted! first appointment is tuesday and we have a second one the following week.

we dont now if the important people are done talking yet - the guy who mite help us wouldnt say, but he did say that whether or not they are done talking, hes out. he wont get involved in this. so were back to square 1. therapist couldnt have come at a better time; jay wrote a nice long note for jess to take with her to address this issue. im not sure it works that fast, but at least if we can get something...

Yay!! I'm so happy for all of you! That will definitely make things easier.

Oh no, I was really hoping he was going to be a good ally. The T really did come just in time then! I'm interested to hear what she has to say, it'll probably take a few sessions to really iron everything out but at least it won't be as stressful. And maybe she'll have some "for the time being" suggestions.

We just wanted to say that we have been following this thread, and are so happy to hear about the therapist!! We hope that things go well with them!

~Mixture