Comorbidity of PD's

Hey there, My name is Alice and I'm not really a frequent poster in BPD forum but I am clincally diagnosed as BPD/HPD and I was wondering about the comorbidity of some of the other BPD's in here. Have any of you recived any add on diagnosis with your BPD Rx, or have you just been diagnosed as BPD alone?

I'm very curious about my disorder, and looking to see similarities in others who have a clinical diagnosis (not self diagnosis) and learn perhaps, where the other comorbid disorders overlap?

One of the main reasons I ask this question is because in searching for HPD treatments online, or anywhere else in the world for that matter, I'm come up with nill for answers and resources. It would seem that the only treatment is for BPD, and I'm not sure if that will take care of the HPD as well, or just how to deal with those differential aspects of the 2 disorders?

I'm completely split between the 2 disorders, I'm niether more one than I am the other, and while I do exhibt traits of antisocial and dependant as well, it is the HPD/BPD that has more greatly affected my life. I'm not curently under the care of a psychiatrist and I didn't even belive my shrink when he told me I had PD's 2 years ago; but after my life falling apart, and too many things pointing clearly to the fact that he was right- I can no longer deny it. I have BPD/HPD and I'm looking for others with the same diagnosis to learn from and identify with, as I feel very alone in my disorders...

I hope this makes some sence...

Thank you
~Alice

Hey, I have a cluster diagnosis as well. Main one being BPD, and AvPD being second under the surface. Also BDII. So, I don't really fit into one diagnosis and treatment is kinda... not clear.

I don't really know much about HPD. But I have never really heard of any "treatment" for it. There are not many treatments for the personality disorders except psychotherapy to try to find out why you act the way you do and try to get you to act more appropriately. That's all. BPD's are very hard to treat in psychotherapy because they are resistant, (as my therapist loves to tell me when I'm being difficult =p ). I would imagine that HPD would be very resistant to any sort of therapy as well. You definitely won't find any medications proven for HPD or anything like that.

Thank you.

I am aware that there is no magic pill we can take to fix this (God- If ONLY it were that easy!) But I'm determined to try and 'push it back' as far as I can. I've heard that therapies include both behavioural types (CBT & DBT) and that transference is an excelant to kill the source of the issue (by purging and fixing the foundation ofthe problem itself) You say you have a therapist, so I'm curious to ask:

- how long have you been seeing your therapist?
- what types of treatment therapy are you doing with him/her?
- have you found any improvement with your therapy and if so, what have you been doing/feeling differently?

I'm presonally looking to do transference therapy with someone, and try to uproot the entire mess and rebuild myself from the rubble. From what I understand, this is much more painful theraby than behavioural therapies themselves, but can also be more effective.

Ergo, I'm very curious about your therapy... Can you share what you talk about there, topic wise and such?

Thank you
~Alice

I've been seeing my therapist for about half a year once a week. Twice a week if I'm doing badly.

I'm actually not sure what type of therapy we're doing. He never outright told me. There is A LOT of $#%^ to go through and I "kinda" prevent him from actually touching any sensitive topic. I go there and pretty much rant about stuff and he tries to help me work through whatever is bothering me "at that moment". But whenever he wants to talk about sexual abuse, my sexual fears, anything that pretty much relates to WHY I developed BPD, I refuse to discuss with him.

So... yeah... bad client over here. Like most BPDers.

Yeah, the heavy stuff- huh?

I've been in and out of therapy a few times in my life and for the most part it was all that bandaid stuff you're doing now... It never changed anything though- it just got me through another week and anoth hour of talking 'drivel' (my impression of my own therapy- not yours) but now I know I have to hit the heavy bag and go in for the kill on that hard stuff in order to fix this stuff once and for all.

I had a pyshciatrist 2 1/2 years ago, and he was pulling a lot of emotions from me- anger and frustration mostly (which apparently is a key component in transference) Like you, I didn't know what he was 'up to' so I just got sick to death of feeling like crap before and after sessions with him that I gave up and stopped going all together. Right now, knowing what I know now, I'm kicking myself in the pants because I could have already been 2 years into the process of healing by now IF I knew what he was doing... That still ticks me off- that he didn't tell me that was part of it all; that I was supposed to angry and rage against him, transfer my pain onto him so we could sort through it together and rebuild...

It would seem to me that your therapist is trying to do the same thing with you. Probe into those areas of pain, anger and sensitivity to get to the core of the issue itself. As much as you're afraid, you're very lucky; espcially if after 6 months you've still not opened the door to talking about those things.

Do you think you will? Open up and deal with those things at some point?
I've talked about what happened to me countless times. Everytime I start with a new therapist I do, and I've had about 5 now through the course of my life. It's become rutine to discuss the subject, but still after all those times talking about it- telling the story and the classic "how does that make you feel?" bit- I've not dealt with the pain of it one iota, nore do I even know how...

May I delicately ask why you don't talk about those things?
Is it fear of feeling the pain that goes along with it that stops you?
Like are you just putting up those barriers in order to protect yourself from pain and hurt?
I'm of course just curious about it and you don't have to answer by any means...

I know that when it comes my turn to do it, and do it right- not just talk facts, but deal with the pain and the feelings that go with the story itself, it's going to be very hard and overwhelming to go through. I am afraid of that pain, I have no shame in admitting that. I am affraid of feeling the pain, reliving the memories and being that 7 year old girl all over again- so if that's why you've not touched on the subjects I totally understand.

I think that one of the main things I'm hopping for is that I'll remember my life (now) at it's worst, and I hope that knowing how deeply my disorders have affected my life and how much damage I've done to others in the process- it will be enough to validate the necessity of reliving and rehashing THAT part of my life (the past) in orde to make sure I have a better future.
That is my hope at least. It's gonna be hard to go through it and keep that hope in perspective as I get deeper and deeper into my pain and my abuse...

My heart goes out to you- it really does! It looks like you've got a great therapist who is trying to help you, and I hope you're strong enough and brave enough to take the steps down that road, take his hand and allow him to pull you through the pain to a better place in your own life.

Take Care and thank you for answering my questions- it means a lot to me
~Alice

Alice I have never been diagnosed, I just always knew something was sort of wrong with me which I attributed to mood swings and PMS (which makes me worse). Then after I had my daughter my hormones went nuts and so did I, raging and suspicious and going through my husband's crap every time he left the house, convinced he was cheating, etc. Getting in fights over and over with Mom, Sister, Hubby....I was always angry at one of them, for whatever reason, and the bigger the fight the more I wanted to die just to get away from all the conflict. Then, in one of my fights with husband I started crying and said "I think there's something wrong with me and I don't know how to fix it" and he said he had read about BPD, and it seemed to fit me in a lot of ways. So I read, and read, and read, and I don't have all the symptoms but I have several. I don't cut myself but I have abused alcohol, and I have irrational reactions to things that involve emotions/hurt. I am afraid of a diagnosis because we don't have universal healthcare in this country (can you guess where I live????) and a dx of BPD could mean any manner of bad things, like getting dropped from insurance or whatever. Also I am afraid it would give husband an edge in a custody battle if we ever divorce, so I am trying to fix myself. The 5HTP and melatonin are helping and I also take Omega 3 (from fish oil, humans evolved eating fish, as water always has fish in it, and people always needed water) and evening primrose oil (good for women with mood swings). Also I found a DBT workbook on Amazon that I am working through.

I honestly believe that I am fixable, that I can fix myself, or at least make myself behave in a way that doesn't hurt other people.

As far as shrinks, I have been to several over the years for depression and once for anxiety, but honestly I don't think any of them ever did a bit of good. I would just give up and quit going, because it made me feel hopeless that they weren't helping me. I tried zoloft and it didn't help and that scared the crap out of me. Now that I know I have traits of a mood disorder I can start addressing physical things like brain chemicals and hormones, but somehow I don't think I will ever fix "getting raped" by talking to some lady who writes crap on a tablet and never says much back to me. Just my opinion, I am not sold on therapy at all at this point but I have noticed amazing differences from the supplements I mentioned, quitting drinking, etc.

I don't know if this was helpful at all. I am anti-diagnosis I guess because I know someone who is severely psychotic (schizophrenic) that sat there and manipulated and lied to several therapists for years, getting them to believe all kinds of horrible things about people I loved, when it was all a lie. The therapists never picked up on any of it being delusions until a ton of damage was done.

I hope you find help, Alice. I know you said you are not religious, and neither am I, but I am spiritual and very curious. So I read recently this thing about Edgar Cayce (who I have always been very fascinated with) and he said that mental illnesses may start as psychological but very quickly they are just the physical after-effects, they are a biological problem once they get started. And more often they are just biological problems to begin with, that manifest as a mental illness. He never once, in all his readings, recommended a therapist/psych of any kind, he recommended physical treatments like chiropractic adjustments, being treated by people who care about you, etc. He said the biggest thing in the world is knowing somebody cares, and that is a key in treating mental illnesses. So make sure you incorporate someone who cares and tells you so in your treatment.

http://www.edgarcayce.org/are/holistic_ ... prmi3.html

Anyway, after 25 years of "crap" starting with puberty, and several failed therapy attempts, I have come to think his explanation may be the right one.

Take care,
Rune

OMG! Is your workbook: "The Dialectical Behavior Therapy Skills Workbook: Practical DBT Exercises for Learning Mindfulness, Interpersonal Effectiveness, Emotion Regulation, and Distress Tolerance" ? Because I just got that last week myself and I'm giving a read through before I start 'working in it' If it is I'd love to know more about your expewriences with the book itself and how it's working for you? Have you learned much? Are you applying those skills to your life and does it help???

Sorry, I have yet to find another person who's usiing this book, which is why I'm so curious about it

Also, what it this "The 5HTP" you speak of, and where did you hear about it?
I'm wairy on things that alter my mood and body chemistry for a few reasons. When I went through a health kick (after becomeing sober I replaced my DOC with excersie and healthy living) I started taking all kinds of different supliments for both a healthy body and to improve my state of mind. What I found with some of those things (especially those which effected my moods) is that they set off on frantic stages 'hypo mania' and I wasn't able to function properly because I was 'too up' and I couldn't come down. I was go go go all the time, no sleep, no peace, just franticlly cleaning and on a natural high on life kinda thing- but in a bad way/not good. It was then that my dopctor talked to me about 'natural supliments' and told me that their side effects and chemical reaction on the body was very real, and like any kind of mood altering drug, they should be taken with medical approval and knowledge in disordered patients because of those things.

While I'd much rather be 'high' than 'low' in my feelings, actions, and moods- I'd most like to stable and steady in myself and find some kind of grounding where I don't have to be on either end of the scale. So I wonder, what are the components of 5HTP and how do they effect your moods and functioning???

While I can see why getting a diagnosis my not be in your best advantage due to health care and custody (yes I'm sure you're a nieghbour of mune, across the boarder due to your health care limitations) and i have faith that you are able to deal with your own treatment and getting better established in your life, I know that that's not an option for me personally...

I am 'full blown' BPD/HPD- clinically diagnosed, and I have every sign and symptom listed on the discription to some degree (but most are to an extreme degree) and I'm very deeply into this unfortantely... It has devistated my life many times and in many ways over my 32 years, and I've tried to live and change on my own live, only to have everything I've worked for be torn away from me by ME all over again.... I don't think I'm hopeless- but I know I can't do this on my own. I believe in therapy (I know many don't) and I'm really looking forward to going to be honest.

I know that I could lie and influence my way into having my therapist beleive anything I want him to, but that wouldn't get me anywhere- would it? Of all the therapists I've been to, I've never lied. I try NOT to lie in my life, rather if I don't want to tell the truth, I just won't say anything at all. I'm ready for therapy this time- I've seen how greatly this thing effects my life, others lives and has ruined many parts of my life and my relationships- not just lovers, but family and friends... I HAVE TO change, I have to fix this, no matter the cost (luckily in Canada our health care is free) and finally I'm ready to deal with this and take the slaps in the face needed to end my pain once and for all.
While I'm going to be working on the DBT book and some other areas of my issues (ie. anger and rage) while waiting for real therapy (free health care is great, but the waitting list is emence) I do need to get professionsl help in this and stick with it. I'm own worst enemy in this thing, and I know that, if I give up or give in, I'll never be better and I'll just keep living the same destructive life, over and over again...

Take Care
~Alice

Alice,
Yes that is the exact book I have. It is pretty logical, much of what it says, like stay away from politics and depressing tv and try to watch funny movies/go for walks in the sunshine instead. A lot of this really does work, I have noticed even watching the news can make me feel extremely down and taking walks outside in a park or something make me feel much better. Little things like that make a big difference. Taking a bath instead of a bottle of wine is a good idea. Mostly the book is about training yourself how to respond to stressors in positive ways instead of negative ways, which is why DBT is now being used for all kinds of depression and mood problems. It basically is teaching you things you should have learned earlier, if only you had a life expert guiding you along the way!!!! I mean I think its amazing that more people aren't disturbed.

5HTP is in health food stores, and it should be by the sleep/insomnia supplements. I have tried a few herbs over the years and didn't like how I felt, in fact St Johns Wort made my blood pressure go through the roof. Melatonin is a sleep aid, its a natural chemical in your brain that helps you sleep. 5HTP, as I said in former post, is one of the earlier forms of melatonin, and it is converted to serotonin which is extremely important in mood stability and sleep. I only take 50 mg in the morning, then I take 3 mg melatonin sustained-release at about 9:00, and by about 10:00 I am tired and sleep pretty well. All I know is since I started taking these two things I don't have that horrible, disoriented feeling any more. I don't know if most BPDs have that feeling, but I felt BAD most of the time, and now I feel almost like a normal person. Unless I get in an argument with someone I love, then I completely break down. I am working on that right now.

I hope your therapists are able to help you. Another thing that has helped is the whole Mindfulness concept that was originally a Buddhist concept I think, I know Thich Nhat Hanh talks about it. Eckert Tolle is basically saying the same thing in Power of Now, and it all comes down to staying focused on the present. The past is over, the future is a big unknown. So focus on now and be happy for those things and people that you do have (like free healthcare LOL). I try to think of it this way: If I had been in a horrible car accident, spending the rest of my life trying to slam on the brakes would be useless. Wondering what caused the accident would be useless. All I can do after it happens is repair the damage. Does that make any sense? Reliving the car wreck over and over wouldn't do any good, would it? I think that was what my therapists wanted and I just knew it wasn't working. If their methods (whatever they are) are helping you then I hope you stick with it and get well.

Take care and feel better,
Rune

AliceWonders wrote:May I delicately ask why you don't talk about those things?
Is it fear of feeling the pain that goes along with it that stops you?
Like are you just putting up those barriers in order to protect yourself from pain and hurt?
I'm of course just curious about it and you don't have to answer by any means...

I can't even talk about the facts of what happened. It just... won't come out. I've built up such a large barrier between myself and what happened. There is a lot of pain and shame. I just... can't. I won't let him touch the subject. I prefer to just bury it deep inside myself. I feel bad that I do that, consciously do it and have no intentions of stopping it. I just don't see how openly talking about it will help me in my life. I prefer to ignore it.

homersxchild wrote:

AliceWonders wrote:May I delicately ask why you don't talk about those things?
Is it fear of feeling the pain that goes along with it that stops you?
Like are you just putting up those barriers in order to protect yourself from pain and hurt?
I'm of course just curious about it and you don't have to answer by any means...

I can't even talk about the facts of what happened. It just... won't come out. I've built up such a large barrier between myself and what happened. There is a lot of pain and shame. I just... can't. I won't let him touch the subject. I prefer to just bury it deep inside myself. I feel bad that I do that, consciously do it and have no intentions of stopping it. I just don't see how openly talking about it will help me in my life. I prefer to ignore it.

GOD! I totally feel you in this!!! I really do!

As much as I'm able to talk about my first trauma fairly openly, though painfully, there is so much more I've not breached or let lose that my mind is still keeping burried behind locked doors and walls; to keep myself safe from the truth.

There is a real safety in this, those walls, that keeps us able to function and live life in a somewhat 'normal' way. I'm not sure if tearing down those walls will make a difference, make life better; but from what I've read and been told it is the turning point to a better life, and that's something I've always wanted. Happiness and better life for me and my kids...

I totally understand why you don't go there, and I'm completely terrified of going there myself- past the first trauma, into the second, the third and so on... Through the course of my many abuses until it's all been purged and purified from my soul. It scares me, but I keep holding on to hope that THAT is the answer, that it will make a difference and change me. I'm not entirely sure that it will, but I hold onto that hope...

Thank you for sharing 'Child' I do undersatand the aprehention and the fear of opening that door, my heart goes out to you in that pain and confussion.

~Alice

@Rune

I understand what you're saying here and I fully beileve in much of what you've stated.
"The past is behind us, the furture is unknown but today is a gift- that's why they call it the present..."

But I beleive that as much as our issues are behavioural (ergo CBT & DTB Treatments) they are also emotional, and therefore can only be treated by dealing with those emotions.

I'm not sure where everyone stands in their disorders, the disorder varries as does the sympotms and sevarity of it; but I am frgmented, badly I beleive, and I'm seperated into several parts of being that come and go as I need them in my psychie and in my attempt to live this tattered life. I constantly dissociate from myself- not situations and putting up walls and barriers (I do that too) but I split from the 'me' that I am as myself and break off into other facets of personality and being. I don't think it's MPD or DID because I don't black out and lose time like they do. I'm still lucid in my being there but I'm not the one 'driving the car' anymore, someone else is driving my life and I'm a passenger watching it being lived by someone else. If that makes sense...

I think I've stated this before on here, but in case not, it's been 2 1/2 years since my BPD/HPD diagnosis and I'm not sure how normal my level of disociation is in these things or if perhaps I should have remained in my psychiatrists care and something else would have been seen and diagnosed over time?

But I'm totally lacking in a sense of self, I have no idea who I am, what I am or what value I hold as a person in my own right. I don't have my own clearly distinguished identity, and I can only define myself by explaining and becoming my various states of 'self' because 'I' am nothing more than a shell of a person...

I don't know what that is exactly, but whatever it is runs deep and I need to find the source of my disociation and try to pull myself togther as a person so that I'm more than a shell shifting between selves and waves of lucidity. So along with the behavior stuff I've got these pieces that must be dealt with. Each piece holds its own sence of values and way of thinking/living in my life and to CBT/DBT on all the pieces effectively would take a lifetime I'm sure I'm not entirely sure what the answer is, because I don't fully understand the problem yet- but I need to dig deep to find the answer and I'm sure that intigration of this mess will only come through looking into the past.

I'd prefer of course not o have to do that. I bilut walls to keep those traumas out of my life and my mind for good, but it putting up those walls and splitting from those things that pained me over the years I have also split myself in the process.

I'm not sure what the answer here here.

Does anyone else suffer from these 'selves' and split idnetity like that?