Help please with borderline ex situation

Bit late replying, but I am new to the forum...

DowntownDC, I believe the reason that some people assert that the link with abuse is unclear is because of the high potential for parents with borderline personality disorder to be a source of extreme stress in their children's lives- in other words, it is possible that the abuse and abandonment suffered by those who grow up to have BPD have that abuse or abandonment inflicted on them by a parent who also has BPD. Thus, it is pretty much impossible to know if it is the abuse or abandonment itself or a genetic link from the parents, or more likely both. Personally I do not find "unclear" to mean "untrue." It simply means there is not enough evidence, which I can see in this case as being true.

Also, as Normal? somewhat pointed out, the diathesis-stress model (the concept I learned about, which sounds like it is the same thing as the Epigenetics that Normal? mentioned) is more simple than what you had thought- that the lack of abuse would have led to a different disorder. Actually, in the diathesis-stress model, you have a predisposition (genetic/nature component) and coming into contact with a stessor (ie abuse) causes the disorder to be triggered. But the lack of the stress, or a strong ability to cope with stress, the switch stays off which means the person does not end up with any disorder. The best example I have of this is Alzheimer's: my grandmother had this disease, while her twin sister did not. Her twin sister didn't have any sort of dementia at all, in fact. So there must have been something that triggered the Alzheimer's in my grandmother, but that her sister didn't experience.

~K

kgymn wrote:Personally I do not find "unclear" to mean "untrue." It simply means there is not enough evidence, which I can see in this case as being true.

KG, I agree with you. Indeed, that was my point when I wrote the following:

DowntownDC wrote:Saying it is unclear falls far short of saying we know that abuse is not the cause-- which is what is required to be able to support the author's claim [that childhood abuse does not cause BPD].

I therefore agree with you, KG, that "there is not enough evidence."

kgymn wrote:I believe the reason that some people assert that the link with abuse is unclear is ....

KG, I am not objecting to the assertion that the link with abuse is unclear. Rather, I am objecting to the assertion that no link exists at all. That is what the "Myths" authors is claiming in Alphabet's other thread on myths. His Myth #3 is "BPD is Caused by Childhood Trauma." Hence, he is claiming BPD is NOT caused by childhood trauma.

IMO, that is an outrageous claim given that 70% of BPDs say they experienced such trauma and given that the academic efforts to prove causality remain unclear to this day. I suspect that some BPD is caused by childhood abuse alone, some by inherited genes alone, and some by both (i.e., genes supplying predisposition and abuse supplying the trigger).

To stimulate discussion, Alphabet provided this alleged "myth" -- together with several real myths -- on this forum page: borderline-personality/topic44753.html

DaysofMiracle wrote:Then I screwed up and said one stupid thing to her, and she told me to never contact her again. What am I supposed to make of this?

Miracle, what we've been trying to explain is that it did not much matter what you said to her. If your "one stupid thing" had not triggered her rage, another minor comment would have. If not that, your tone of voice would have done it. If not that, the way you glanced at her would do it. With BPD, the rages are unavoidable and unpredictable. This is why folks have been advising you above to terminate your relationship, given that she is unwilling to seek therapy. Saying and doing everything perfectly is not likely to change a thing.

Incidentally, starting a second and third thread on this same issue makes it very difficult for folks to read all the background information which is contained here. I got the text in the quote shown above, for example, from your third thread. I mention this because you likely will get better responses if you stay here in your original thread where all the information is.

thanks for your reply. to clarify, I'm sure she would go to therapy if it was practical and if people close to her encouraged it. I feel a little conflicted...my intuition tells me that (eventually) she will begin talking to me again and from that point some kind of closeness will be inevitable, if I let myself go along with it. She and I were deeply in love and almost got engaged...matters are complicated by a death in her family. She and I broke up just a couple of weeks before her stepfather died. Before he died, as his condition worsened, it also seemed that her treatment of me worsened. I also feel it important to mention that things between us began to go downhill not long after her anti-anxiety meds ran out due to lack of health insurance. I'm pretty sure her new job provides her with health insurance. So...assuming that she talks to me again and one day wants to be in a relationship with me again, and if she has her meds and is in therapy, is it unrealistic to consider being with her after all?

DaysofMiracle wrote:She and I were deeply in love and almost got engaged. So...assuming that she talks to me again and one day wants to be in a relationship with me again, and if she has her meds and is in therapy, is it unrealistic to consider being with her after all?

Yes, it is very unrealistic, Miracle. Earlier, you identified several stringent conditions that need to be satisfied to get her into therapy. Even then -- after you have achieved an alignment of the earth, moon, and sun -- there is not much chance she will work hard in therapy.

Yes, I know, most of the BPDs here are this forum seem to be burning rubber and working hard, with much success. They have a unique combination, however, of courage and amazing self awareness. Hence, what is commonplace on this forum is very uncommon outside it. Have you ever -- in your entire lifetime -- met a BPD who would acknowledge having the disorder, much less seek treatment for it? Well, I haven't either.

At gettinbetter.com, therapist Shari Schreiber states, Borderlines can make tangible progress with solid therapeutic help, but you may have a better shot at flying to the moon strapped to a banana than keeping them in treatment long enough to accomplish any real growth or healing. Don't forget--they're terrified of attaching and relying on anyone for their care.

You make good points. Thank you. I should just add that it was from my ex herself that I learned of her condition, and she even recommended a book to read about it.

DaysofMiracle wrote:I should just add that it was from my ex herself that I learned of her condition, and she even recommended a book to read about it.

That is a good sign, Miracle. I read it in your earlier post but had forgotten about that. Sorry I overlooked it. I still believe that your expectations are unrealistic. I am trying to be truthful, not critical. After all, my expectations for 15 years were more unrealistic than yours. Moreover, my exW never was self aware enough to acknowledge the illness as your exGF has done.

I also forgot to comment on your statement that the two of your were deeply in love. As I have said in other threads, I recognize that BPDs are capable of love but, until they learn emotional control through treatment, are not capable of mature love. This is why you will often read that BPDs experience very intense but very shallow emotions. That view has lead to the expression, "BPD emotions are a mile wide and an inch deep." As I understand it, the problem is that -- absent much emotional control -- BPDs experience intense tides of emotion that sweep through them, pushing aside the intense feelings that preceded the latest wave.

My point, then, is that your exGF loved you but not "deeply" in any meaningful sense. I am hopeful that some of our BPD members will step in now and correct me if I am mistaken on that -- or, alternatively, expound on it if I am correct.

Hi Miracle,
I myself, Like DC, am a Non that has codependency and find myself in the same place as you are in the past. While I know the love you have for her is ourageous and you may never see your with anyone and How can this be happening to me! ( You may have thought that exact same line). Yet, as in my case, that little birdy in your head singing that you know she is not right for you is correct. DC from what I have read is extremely well educated in what they are saying and not only is she not right for you, she is may be affecting your health.

I'd love to hear how it is going and I wish you the best.

Error.

Thanks Error. I agree about her affecting my health negatively, but I wonder if I am capable of being with a girl who doesn't have borderline personality disorder. I haven't had the best luck with relationships, then this amazing woman comes along. Actually, she was not the first woman I got involved with who had the disorder. I just wonder if I will ever find a woman who is right for me who does not have BPD. I feel like such a loser.

Miracle,

You are not even close to being a loser, this can be one of the hardest things you may have to deal with and I can safely say, you can fall in love agian. After my period of no contact I began to "date" a girl I had met in my past. When i was with there, there was a sense of calm. We would have dinner, watch movies, and just lay around. No yelling about family, how she wanted to kill herself, how she was fat (she had an eating disorder or anything of the sort.

One thing you have to remember, you have to learn to love yourself before you can love others. If you run to another, make sure your in it 100%. They did nothing to you and do no deserved to be hurt.

Error