Help please with borderline ex situation

New to the forum - hello everyone.

I have a few questions. So I was in the most emotionally intense relationship of my life with a beautiful, charming, intelligent woman with borderline personality disorder. We fell in love almost instantly and it seemed almost certain that we would never separate. Everything was amazing and she came very close to proposing to me. She mentioned her disorder (once) early in the relationship and I now wish I had done more research on it while I was still with her. After a certain point in the relationship (it seemed to coincide with her running of anti-anxiety meds, her step-father's terminal medical condition worsening, and her starting a new job...and I do not discount that I had a few issues of my own that might have contributed) her behavior became almost intolerable. She blamed me for anything and everything that went wrong, she stopped showing me any kind of affection, she snapped at me constantly, and I began to suspect that she was cheating on me. We both recognized that things were not going well. I still loved her, and she seemed to want to continue the relationship despite the problems - at this point I think I had literally forgotten what she had said about BPD. I loved her and just wanted to be closer to her, but I was miserable. I began complaining to her about the situation regularly, until it got to the point where we were arguing about the relationship, and it was then that I impulsively broke up with her in a moment when we were both very upset. She became defensive, very cold, and slightly hostile. When she told me that she did not think it would be a good idea for us to ever get back together, I broke down. It was the most depressed I had ever been in my life over an extended period of time, and I came close to killing myself. I felt like I had died on the inside. After a while, I started to heal some, and I wanted to at least remain friends with her, so we kept in contact a little bit and got on better terms very slowly. Then, one night while talking online, I said one very foolish thing that hurt her tremendously, and she told me to never contact her again. I talk to her on the phone one time after that (about a week later) and she was still furious and told me that she still did not want to talk to me or be friends with me. So I cannot contact her. It feels like a horrible situation to me because we were like family...we were like best friends, so incredibly close...she went to my sister's wedding with me, we almost got married, our lives were so intricately intertwined, and now I cannot talk to her or see her and it ended on a horrible note. There's a part of me that's seeking reassurance from someone that my ex will one day come around and talk to me again. Any advice on how to deal with all of this, at least inside my head?

Hi, DaysofMiracle! Not everything she does depends on her disorder. For how long have you been broken up? Maybe with some time she will realize that you still love her and didn't mean to hurt her. Is she getting professional help? It sounds to me like she'd need to work on some issues before you two could have a healthy relationship.

We have been broken up for about two months now. The last incident with her cutting off contact with me happened just a couple of weeks ago. As far as I know, she is neither seeing a therapist nor on any medication, but i can't confirm that. The way I look at it, I don't see her having a healthy relationship with anyone until she is getting professional help.

Yes, you're right, she can't have a healthy relationship with any one if she doesn't get help. Could you talk to someone from her family or a close friend and tell them that she needs treatment? Maybe they could convince her.

DaysofMiracle wrote:It feels like a horrible situation to me because we were like family...we were like best friends, so incredibly close.

Hello, Miracle. Welcome to the BPD forum. Yes, it is a horrible situation. Like you, I lost a woman whom I considered to be my best friend for 40 years. It is extremely painful to incur such a loss. I found several things to be helpul in my recovery.

One was reading an article by therapist Shari Schreiber at gettinbetter.com/anycost.html . On that same site, there is another good article called "Do You Love to be Needed, or Need to be Loved? I believe you will find these two articles helpful because, in your post, it sounds like you are the caretaker type (as I am) who seeks out the wounded birds of the world.

That is, it sounds like you have strong codependency traits like me. I know, I know, "codependency" is such an inappropriate name because the folks exhibiting such traits typically are so fiercely independent that they not only take care of themselves but also take on caring for many others as well. But we are stuck with that label in the same way the folks with emotional dysregulation are stuck, for a little while longer, with the God-awful "borderline" label.

I found the Schrieiber articles helpful because she explains how we "codependents" grow up with the mistaken perception that we are not being loved unless we experience an intense longing and aching for the other person. Specifically, we mistakenly believe that "being loved" consists of being desperately needed (for what we can do) rather than being loved for what we already are. For that reason, when we meet someone who actually loves us in a mature fashion, we find it lacking in intensity, excitement, and passion. So we keep moving on until we find an unstable person who seems to need us desperately. Only then do the sparks fly, making us feel like we have met "the One."

A second helpful thing -- after crying my eyes out -- was to speak about my pain to family and friends. Unfortunately, they have a limited ability to tolerate such talk, so I needed more.

A third thing is to find a very good psychologist who is well experienced in treating codependency (which means that he also has a very good understanding of the BPD folks to whom we are so attracted). If my experience is any guide, the experience/quality of therapists varies widely so you must take great care in choosing one.

A fourth thing, given the limitations of family and friends, is to seek out others who are going through the very same painful experience and share your experiences with them. It is the closest experience you can get to attending group therapy without having to get dressed and drive across town. That is why I participate in this forum.

Moreover, this forum offers the best mix of codependent Nons and BPDers I have been able to find (most sites target only one group or the other). I have learned as much from the BPDers as the Nons. If you stay around here, Miracle, you likely will find that the BPDers here are unlike any that you've met elsewhere. That certainly was true for me. Because they have to be very self aware to want to seek out a BPD forum, they have an extensive knowledge of BPD and a pretty good understanding of our problem too, i.e., the codependency. I hope you find the forum as helpful as I have. Meanwhile, take care of yourself.

Hi there.

Look, this is from a borderline in therapy.

Nobody with borderline, untreated, is going to be able to be a good, consistent friend or lover to you. Our emotional dysregulation changes from one minute to the next, puzzling even us...lol...and until we understand our disorder in clinical terms AND are taught ways to counteract giving in to emotional thinking, we are going to shock you with our unexpected responses. Yep, that's us!!! Now some of us realize this and are trying to control our disorder. Those of us who are...well, SOME of us who are...have been able to form functional relationships. I have been happily married now for fourteen years. I've known him for sixteen. No funny stuff. No lies (I pathologically REFUSE to lie...it was the first thing I crossed off my list of bad things to change), no cheating (never did this anyway), no raging. He has never seen a rage. My first husband did, but not this one.

Until/unless your ex is in a good place, as in diligent therapy and working very hard, you will not be able to predict what she will do or how she will act. Why? Because she is a slave to her rapidly shifting emotions and will act on how she feels and since she feels one way one minute and another way the next, you will get what she is feeling AT THAT TIME. If you can have a relationship with her, understanding that she will turn on a dime and make no sense a lot and rage on you without being able to stop herself, then continue on. But don't expect logic or normal responses from her. She is as unaware as you are as to why she behaves the way she does. I didn't know myself why I did what I did until it was explained to me. And I didn't know what to do about it until it was also explained to me.

As long as you realize you will get dysfunctional behavior from her because she is sick, and as long as you can handle it, go for it. She can not keep her promises. Not WILL not. CAN not. Be good to yourself and think about what you can and can not put up with and still remain healthy. And, yes, go to therapy for codependence. You can't change her. Only she can do that. If you want to read a fantastic and up-to-date book about borderline (the up-to-date is important as there is much old school trash around) buy or go to the library and take out "Borderline Demystified" by Robert. O. Friedel, MD. Downtown, you may enjoy the book as well. I'm going to link you boys to his site and you can read what the book is about, ok? Here ya go:

http://www.bpddemystified.com/

Have a great day

Thanks so much, everyone! (busy at work right now, will post more/better replies later on)

Peace

There is this part of me that still feels that she and I are meant to be together. She was sometimes very callous and cold-hearted towards me, especially towards the end of the relationship, but I feel that this was not her true self. When I look at all the facts, I end up telling myself that she is not as kind a person as me and she does not deserve me anyway, but then I remember the love we felt. I had never felt a love like that and I don't think that she had either. Earlier in the relationship, before things got more complicated and she ran out of her meds, she was so incredibly sweet. She would always say "when I say I'm not going anywhere, I'm not going anywhere." And now she won't even talk to me. I know she probably needs some time to reflect and heal herself, but I feel terrified of never seeing her/talking to her again. I feel almost helpless right now, like I've lost a family member or something. Do you guys think she will come around and talk to me again?

Alphabet, thanks for the link. The site looks excellent to me and your recommending it means a lot to me. It has some good stuff, e.g., on when DBT is appropriate and when medication is most helpful. Like I've said several times before, I learn so much from you.

I also like the "Myths" article you posted in another thread. But I do have one gripe. I found the arguments weak with regard to Myth #3, where the author makes an unsupported claim that childhood trauma and abandonment do not cause BPD. Her claim is surprising because she concedes "there is evidence that a large percentage of people who have BPD have experienced childhood maltreatment or early separation from caregivers." Significantly, she does not identify the "large percentage." The last large scale study results I saw found it to be 66%, a very large percentage indeed.

Of course, the finding that 66% of BPDers were maltreated or abandoned demonstrates a correlation of the two factors but is not sufficient to prove one factor (abuse) causes the other (BPD). The social sciences are particularly weak at teasing apart Nature and Nurture effects. Hence, many researchers have shown interest in the theory that certain families pass on a gene causing a propensity toward emotional sensitivity or disorder.

In a third of the BPD cases, that emotional propensity took the form of BPD without any environmental factor (e.g., abuse) contributing. In two-thirds of the BPD cases, according to the theory, the gene would have produced another disorder (not BPD) if childhood trauma/abuse had not occurred. If that is true, the childhood trauma "caused" the BPD to occur, according to this theory.

Given that two-thirds of BPD cases involve childhood abuse or other trauma, it is too big a stretch to conclude -- as this author does -- that childhood abuse does not cause most instances of BPD to occur. Maybe so, maybe not. What we can say, based on those figures, is that the association of the two factors is impressively large but it is not yet proven that abuse really is the cause.

But saying it is unclear falls far short of saying we know that abuse is not the cause -- which is what is required to be able to support the author's claim. That is, claiming that something is a "myth" is the same thing as claiming that it is false. Right now, nobody knows the answer to that as far as I know.

But the figures I saw last year may be out of date by now. If so, I sure would like to see what figures have replaced the two-thirds/one-third statistics. Unfortunately, the article does not provide it. If anyone comes across new information on this nature/nurture issue, please share it with us.

Hey Downtown - hope you and your socks are well!

Just thought I'd mention the theory of Epigenetics here as it is something I have been reading about after seeing a documentary.

Epigenetics is the study of Environmental elements on genetic development itself. It is a branch of science that kind of straddles the nature/nurture debate since an Epigeneticist would claim that whatever our genetic profile, some genes have to be 'turned on' by the environment to affect our character or even our physical health too. For example two twins may have the same genetic predisposition towards alcoholism, but only one experiences a trauma or difficult situation:- this experience 'switches on' the alcoholism gene whilst in the other twin it remains 'switched off'. Does that make sense?

I've read Alice Miller's books on the effect of childhood abuse on PDs and they were very convincing. However as a poster on the NPD forum asserts, she was studying abused adults with PDs who had come into therapy - hence her focus was on the abuse rather than on the PD? But her books are very interesting and moving. They really helped me to see PDs as an 'illness' rather than a choice?